15 Responses to “chairman of the board”

1. 1
   Caroline Miley Says:
   May 29th, 2003 at 12:01 am

   Hi Phil - this isn’t about your staying…. the other night when I met with you all there was some discussion about the Creeds - some people didn’t seem familiar with them, so I thought they might like to seee one… this is the Apostle’s Creed, common to the whole Church:

   I BELIEVE in God, the Father almighty,
   creator of heaven and earth.

   I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
   He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
   and born of the Virgin Mary.

   He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
   was crucified, died, and was buried.

   He descended to the dead.
   On the third day he rose again.
   He ascended into heaven,
   and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
   He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

   I believe in the Holy Spirit,
   the holy catholic Church,
   the communion of saints,
   the forgiveness of sins,
   the resurrection of the body,
   and the life everlasting.

   Amen.

   Also there is a good link to the Anglican Church including a section on “What Anglicans believe” which some people might find of interest:
   http://anglicansonline.org/

   Good luck Caroline

2. 2
   phil Says:
   May 29th, 2003 at 10:38 am

   Thanks Caroline.

   The staying is actually Dan not me
   Thanks for the link, we intend to discuss the creeds in a couple of weeks. I will post further about that shortly. Our demomination (as you found out :)) are very suspicious of creeds.

   However, a reconnecting with the creeds and a discussion about their relevance/meaning will be good. I actually found a creed I particularly like - I will post it up shortly. It is from the United Church of Christ

3. 3
   Caroline Says:
   May 31st, 2003 at 1:16 pm

   Hi Phil

   I looked at your Creeds link and the UCC one, which are very useful links - thanks.

   As you know (but as you could see, I was a bit surprised that some of your people didn’t), the whole church of God subscribes to a creed of some description and the vast bulk to the three great creeds of the Christian faith. I think one of their strengths is that it is something that binds all Christians together, regardless of denominational differences, and across time.

   Without a credal statement from the church, I’d be afraid that I was just making up whatever suited me - and although that might be comfortable, it wouldn’t be the truth that I am seeking and believe I have found. I don’t want a DIY “designer” faith, which I am afraid I might fall into. I also want to be joined together with all Christians in faith and worship.

   One of the questions I would have liked to ask the group was: “What’s the point of being a Christian?” I believe it’s to worship God. If we’re not doing that, what’s it all about?

   I was also surprised by the fact that many people did not set aside at least some part of Sunday for worship of God, for prayer and praise and thanksgiving. You know that to do so is one of t he Commandments. So why not? Other days are good too, but we have a specific Command to set aside Sunday. Could you explain this to me?

   Cheers Caroline

4. 4
   gareth Says:
   June 1st, 2003 at 11:35 pm

   as there are plenty of other piece of the old testament that we completely throw out, why not the sunday must be the holy day (specialy as it doesn’t say sunday, just the 7th day).

   as i was trying to impart at our youth congregation tonight, when reading the bible its important to understand what is trying to be said as well as why it was bing said. To me the reason to set aside the 7th day of the week for rest and for worship is that we need to regularly rest and worship, doing both on the same day is good (but not essential) and doing it on the same day as many other people is also good. Now that we live in a world where our cities hold many millions of people, we can have many small (thousands or people) groups of people doing these together, and therefore getting all the benifit out of it.

   actualy where in the bible does it say which day of the week the sabath is meant to be, and where does is say that everyones sabath needs to be the same day?

5. 5
   phil Says:
   June 2nd, 2003 at 12:20 pm

   I am enjoying this dialogue - I will start a new thread for us to continue.

6. 6
   Caroline Says:
   June 2nd, 2003 at 1:10 pm

   Dear Gareth
   As you know, the command to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy is in Exodus 20 - and it was a command, not a suggestion! “Keeping it holy” means “setting it aside for God.” OK, it’s in the Old Testament, but the disciples kept the Sabbath and set it aside to God, and so the whole Christian church has always done. It does not seem too heavy a demand that out of the 7 days God has given us, we should honour God specially on one.

   Why Sunday? Well, the Jews keep the Sabbath on Friday night to Saturday night, that was what the disciples would have done. But in the early church it seemed natural to celebrate God’s goodness especially on the day of the week that Jesus rose from the dead - Sunday. And so we do. That’s what makes Sunday special.

   I think it’s a question of doing and believing what God wants, not what we want. And we know that he only wants what is good for us.

   Cheers Caroline

7. 7
   Caroline Says:
   June 2nd, 2003 at 1:15 pm

   I forgot to mention - before you ask - that we know Jesus rose on the Sunday because he died on the Friday, and we know that becuase as you remember they had to take him down from the cros before the Sabbath began, ie at sunset on Friday. The Jews counted each day in the “three days”, so: Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And you know the women went to the tomb “early on the day after the Sabbath” - which had finished at sunset on Saturday. So, it must have been Sunday when they saw the empty tomb.

8. 8
   dan Says:
   June 2nd, 2003 at 1:22 pm

   Jesus and the disciples angered the pharisees and scribes by failing to keep the sabbath holy on several occasions. In fact, it is shown as one of the prompts to the pharisees beginning to plot Jesus’ death.

   Perhaps Jesus was saying that rigid adherence to commandments like this and the insistence that others do likewise was missing God’s point.

   At our church we have several congregations which worship on a Sunday. We have several congregations which worship on other days. Are we to say that one expression of “sabbath” is superior to others?

9. 9
   Darren Says:
   June 2nd, 2003 at 1:37 pm

   good discussion.

   Caroline wrote: “I was also surprised by the fact that many people did not set aside at least some part of Sunday for worship of God, for prayer and praise and thanksgiving. ”

   I personally am not convinced that Sunday is ‘the day’….I wrote on the topic a while back at

   The other thing that I would ask about your comment Caroline is what is your understanding of worship and prayer? I actually found last Tuesday night a very worshipful and prayerful experience.

10. 10
    Darren Says:
    June 2nd, 2003 at 1:40 pm

    http://www.livingroom.org.au/blog/archives/000392.php there is the link that didnt work last time….

11. 11
    phil Says:
    June 2nd, 2003 at 4:14 pm

    Caroline,

    Which gospel did you use to count the days to arrive at Sunday?

    I think you may find it difers between gospels.

    Phil.

12. 12
    Caroline Says:
    June 2nd, 2003 at 10:44 pm

    Darren

    Sunday: it’s the day of the Lord’s resurrection. What else can I say?

    What worship and prayer are, are far too big a topic for a blog, but here are a few thoughts:

    You name God and specifically commit your thoughts and deeds to God. You ask for the help of the Holy Spirit and Jesus in bringing you together with God.

    You thank God for his goodness to yourself/the world/specific people etc

    You praise God for his goodness etc. You tell him that you love him.

    You admit your weakness and failings in doing his will, and ask for his forgiveness. In doing so you admit that you are relying on Jesus, who made us right with God.

    You ask God for help with difficulties, whether for yourself or others.

    You read/listen to some scripture - the word of God.

    Any or all of this might be with words or singing or silent meditation, but these things are what constitute prayer and worship as far as I know.

    I didn’t notice any of this on Tuesday night, except that I gave thanks to God for my food, as usual.

13. 13
    phil Says:
    June 3rd, 2003 at 9:21 am

    Caroline,

    If Sunday is the day of the ressurection (not something backed up by each gospel), then why does that mean that worship cannot occur at other times?

    You have listed the things about worship that are important to you. Is it possible that others would have different elements, different emphasis and different styles?

    I like your list, even it is not how I would exlusively define worship. But, I am not sure that this list is even upheld as the only way in the New Testament.

    Again, I am not sure if this is your intention but are you not saying that your style is the only way?

14. 14
    Caroline Says:
    June 3rd, 2003 at 1:17 pm

    Signing off, Phil. We’re from different planets.

15. 15
    Darren Says:
    June 3rd, 2003 at 4:50 pm

    I was enjoying the discussion here, I hope it can continue.

    I would agree with everything in Caroline’s list above - I think its a good one. I would probably add a number of other things an perhaps broaden it if I were to define worship myself…

    When I think of worship I think of Romans 12:1 where we seem to be encouraged to make it something that is in everything we do - read the rest of Romans 12 and we see that it should impact our whole lives….the way we work, the way we relate to others etc - this is a spiritual act of worship.

    I think its important that we do it as a community also - but I would hesitate to put rules on what that should look like, who should lead it, when it should happen etc.

    I know with our church (Living Room) there are weeks where we are more ‘intentional’ or ‘formal’ in our times of prayer, meditation and worship and then there are other times when it is less so - however in our eating together, discussion, building of relationships we are always aware of and seeking to honor God….seeking to be thankful….seeking to talk about and allow each other and God to impact our ‘issues’ and needs……seeking to be honest about our failures….seeking to be life giving to each other and aware of our world…..and sharing very deeply. This whole process is prayer to me whether we stop and say….’lets pray….’ or whether we are just aware that God is with us in our midst as we share.

    I’m still working all this out and on a journey of learning - hope we can continue to travel together…