50 Responses to “Bush campaign turns to the Churches”

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1. 31
   george Says:
   August 17th, 2004 at 1:18 pm

   Seems to me like this is always the response as you get challenged on what God’s Word actually says. Why is that Phil?

2. 32
   Jake Says:
   August 17th, 2004 at 1:23 pm

   George,

   A life lived rooted in the love of God would be a life that bore fruit.

   I don’t know what gifts God has given you, so I wouldn’t suppose to define how you might offer those gifts to God.

   Personally, I find my answer in Matthew 25;

   “Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.”

3. 33
   phil Says:
   August 17th, 2004 at 1:29 pm

   George, I almost deleted your comment as per my previous comment. But, Jake had already responded to you, so it stands as an example of the type of comment that will be deleted.

   Perhaps you could re-read your comment and reflect on when did you become the person who speaks solely for “what God’s word actually says”?

4. 34
   Homer Paxton Says:
   August 17th, 2004 at 1:55 pm

   Phil,
   I responed to Jake’s proposition so please do not blame me for leading the thread in areas from the original subject.

   although this is a strange comment to be made on a blog.

   I make no apology indeed I rejoce that I bring every thing back to what is in the bible.
   That is what christians should do.

   It is your blog so do what you wish to however I do note it is interesting that if george or I make a statement it is arrogant but if others make a statement concerning the bible it isn’t.

5. 35
   phil Says:
   August 17th, 2004 at 2:10 pm

   Let me explain Homer:

   It is not that you bring everything back to the bible.

   It is not that you and George make statements concerning the Bible.

   But…

   It is about the fact that you make statements like:

   “The major problem for people such as Jake and yourself is where it conflicts with today’s culture. you go with culture and I ( and goerge) endeavour to stay with God.”

   I keep saying it is NOT about you disagreeing. Can you see the distinction?

   I keep saying it is about the use of the The simplistic - “me with God, you not” argument just gets people back up (me included) and means we don’t want to engage anymore as you are not listening to anyone else because you believe that you have the truth already.
   Can you see the impact that this has on discussion?

   I am happy to say that I do not know God’s mind and want to engage with people who like me wish to discern it.
   Are you happy to say the same thing?

   Perhaps we have misjudged your comments as it is easy to do with the written word.

   Perhaps answering these questions might help

6. 36
   george Says:
   August 18th, 2004 at 7:45 am

   I’ll tell you what it is for me Phil. I’m on a journey. God changed my life three years ago and I’m still trying to figure out why. What does He want for me to do with it now.

   I’m all over the place listening to all the many voices that are out there in Christianity. And I’m trying to discern. I ask God to help me to discern.

   I use His Word as my standard when it comes to discerning. He guides me by His Spirit as I look to His Word.

   I know I want to work for Him. Maybe even in a full time ministry at some point. I’m not sure where its all going but its an incredible journey to be on and I am so grateful for what He has done in my life.

   I want to testify to what He has done and to be used to bring others to Him. There is absolutely nothing more rewarding.

   But I want to do it right. How do I know if its right? Within Christianity there are so many voices that have so many different opinions on so many different issues.

   As a new person in Christ I have to wade through all that and search for the real truth.

   How do I do that?

   When it comes to your blog it is one of many emerging type blogs I read.

   I have waded in on the discission with respect to different issues from time to time and admittedly not as graciously as I should as a follower of Christ.

   I have been convinced over these past three years that I can trust God’s Word the Bible as the ultimate authority in my life.

   That should probably go without saying for a follower of Christ, but there are those who would tell me that they are followers of Christ and yet question the total authority of Scipture.

   So ok I listen to all that and then I need to discern. Can I tust God and what He has already laid out and what has satisfied some of the brightest minds in human history or not?

   Is there all of a sudden some new revelation of God that contradicts what he has already told us?

   I think Homers point about how we deal with culture is bang on when it comes to trusting God’s Word.

   I find it interesting that so many bloggers who disagree with the biblical position on issues or who twist it to reflect what they want it to say, are ususally the ones that have so much discouragement in their life. They seem so angry.
   They seem angry even at God as they quote Scripture. I wonder if God might be trying to tell them something as they question what He has said in His Word.

   I don’t get that as a follower of Christ.

   As a follower of Christ I am experiencing the incredible joy and comfort and assurance, and hope and peace that He brings. I want to share that with others. How will God bless my efforts?

   I think of the topical issues that have been addressed on your blog. I commend you for raising them because so many don’t really want to talk about it.

   I think of the same sex issue and the blessing of same sex unions and all that. What a huge issue. All around the western world. The future of the family as we know it hangs in the balance.

   I want to know what God’s will is with respect to that issue. I want to reach out to those in that lifestyle with the love of Christ. I want to speak the truth to them in love.

   So I listen to voices like yours and Jake’s and then I listen to the other voices. The voices of those that have been in the gay lifestyle and have come to know the redeeming power of Jesus Christ and have had their lives transformed.

   The incredible stories of their transformation and how they go back to their communities to bring the love of Christ.

   So I listen to all that and then I need to discern.

   How do I do that? God’s Word right?

   And then it becomes so clear. Its not about my interpretation being right, its about what does it say.

   If you are still reading I apologize for the length of this.

   I apologize if I was less than gracious in previous entries and I appreciate being able to be a part of this dialogue. Its hugely important with eternal implications and all I know is I want to do God’s will because He has changed me and I know I will have to give an account. We all will.

7. 37
   george Says:
   August 18th, 2004 at 8:20 am

   I just checked out Jake’s blog and interestingly enough he has a post today about how he views the Bible. Check it out.

   Ok and now there is a need to discern.

   How do we do that?

   PS: I can’t post over there he’s already cut me off for disagreeing with him once.

8. 38
   Homer Paxton Says:
   August 18th, 2004 at 10:38 am

   Phil, I don’t wish to add more thsn george has said however this all came about because I pointed out how Jake had got two passages from the bible wrong.

   If that means when I do that in further you will delete my comments then so be it.

   I don’t recall abusing anyone in my comments and I trust I will not do this in future.
   However I will always bring subjects back to the bible just like all sermons should be brought back to Christ and the cross.

   Whether it be opposing the Iraq war because of the Just War doctrine or how a government is judged by God ( how they treat the widows, fatherless and aliens of the world.)

   I was under the impression this was a blog discussing issues from a christian perspective.

   If I am wrong then please let me know.

9. 39
   Carl Says:
   August 18th, 2004 at 2:05 pm

   Whilst I believe there is absolute truth in God, I don’t believe that we are capable of perceiving the entirity of it.

   Picture this … We all sit around in a circle looking at a cube in the centre. Each of us can only see one part of the whole. This is the way I see God.

   Whilst we may have different view points, they come from our own perspectives and prior experiences. Somewhere amongst it all is the whole truth, but as humans I don’t know that we are capable of conceiving the whole.

   Carl

10. 40
    phil Says:
    August 18th, 2004 at 3:01 pm

    George, that was a great post and with great questions. In fact it is the first time I have heard the honest struggle (that I share) in discernment of God’s truth. With your permission perhaps I can repost your questions in a thread of its own for discussion.

    Homer, are you able to answer my questions? Your response does not deal with anything that I have raised.

11. 41
    george Says:
    August 18th, 2004 at 8:47 pm

    Phil, absolutely

12. 42
    Homer Paxton Says:
    August 19th, 2004 at 2:45 pm

    actually it does but I am glad you have printed George’s comment.

    Well done brothers

13. 43
    phil Says:
    August 19th, 2004 at 2:58 pm

    Homer, I was refering to these questions, which I do not believe you have answered. You response was that you don’t believe that you have abused anyone. I agree, but I didn’t say you did. So, that is hardly answering the questions. I don’t mean this to be an interrogation but I think it is important for our ongoing discussions. We seem to hit the same issue over and over.

    George has written were he stands on these issues but I don’t believe you have. If you can it would help us move forward.

    “I keep saying it is NOT about you disagreeing. Can you see the distinction?

    I keep saying it is about the use of the The simplistic - “me with God, you not” argument just gets people back up (me included) and means we don’t want to engage anymore as you are not listening to anyone else because you believe that you have the truth already.
    Can you see the impact that this has on discussion?

    I am happy to say that I do not know God’s mind and want to engage with people who like me wish to discern it.
    Are you happy to say the same thing?”
    

14. 44
    Jake Says:
    August 20th, 2004 at 7:16 am

    George,

    Thanks for that excellent comment. It has helped me to better understand your perspective.

    Did I ban you? I don’t recall doing so. I’ve only got about 5 IPs banned. I’ll check.

15. 45
    Jake Says:
    August 20th, 2004 at 7:18 am

    Oh, yea, and Homer, it is your opinion that I got those two passages “wrong.”

16. 46
    Homer Paxton Says:
    August 20th, 2004 at 10:45 am

    then give us your explanation please.

17. 47
    Jake Says:
    August 20th, 2004 at 11:12 am

    Well Homer, if I unstood your response, you were saying that using examples from the purity code from Leviticus(the same code that includes some of the verses used to condemn homosexuality) revealed a poor understanding of the scriptures. Your argument, if I understood it, was that it is not the law that offers salvation, but Jesus Christ…

    ..which is exactly what I was suggesting, by asking why some pick and choose parts of the purity code to support their objection to homosexual Christians, when my understanding of Christianity is that we are followers of Jesus Christ, not the law; thus my quoting of Jesus’ summary of the law.

18. 48
    Homer Paxton Says:
    August 20th, 2004 at 1:25 pm

    well Jake, I have never heard of people quoting Leviticus to prove homosexuality is sinful before been drawn to the blogosphere..

    I attempted to put that Leviticus quotation into context. You haven’t yet explained that quote.

    Remember Jake Jesus said he came fulfil the law. Only he could uphold it and therefore be without sin. also when he condemned the Pharisees it was not their ‘loving’ of the law but their attempts to evade its resposibilites whilst still appearing to uphold it.

19. 49
    Jake Says:
    August 20th, 2004 at 2:25 pm

    when he condemned the Pharisees it was not their ‘loving’ of the law but their attempts to evade its resposibilites whilst still appearing to uphold it.

    So now we’ve come full circle, it appears. Are you saying we are bound by the purity code found in Leviticus?

20. 50
    Homer Paxton Says:
    August 20th, 2004 at 2:34 pm

    no, Paul tells us in Romans for example that the Law for given to show us how sinful we are.

    A love of the law is different to saying it will save us.

    Jesus fulfilled it and through him because of his substitutionary sacrifice and more importantly his ressurrection

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