Comments on: questions about following Christ http://www.signposts.org.au/2004/08/19/questions-about-following-christ/ musings from those on the journey Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:13:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2004/08/19/questions-about-following-christ/#comment-3187 Janet Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2004/08/19/questions-about-following-christ/#comment-3187 George raises some good points here. I am reflecting here from someone who grew up being taught that the Bible means something in particular, but as I have grown, and read, and learned, I have discovered that this was not necessarily the case. It can create a degree of confusion when we come to realise that those who brought you to faith, and you respect and admire may have "got it wrong" It can be a challenge to accept that there are opposite points of view, that can perfectly legitimately be declared to come from the truth of the Bibie. My pastor says that when he left Bible College, he was certain he knew what the Bible says about most issues. 30 years later, he says is now much less certain about most things, but what he is certain of (our sinfulness, the cross, redemption), he is more certain of. I believe that it is a characteristic of maturity of faith when you can accept that there are many ways to interpret what the BIble says, and how to apply it to everyday life. How can this be, surely the Bible is the Word of God, and so it can only be right or wrong. Well, actually the term the "Word of God" demonstrates one of the most important considerations. The Bible was never written in the first place in English - and when it comes to this phrase, more than one Greek word was used, which mean different things. Jesus is said to be the Word of God (John 1) So that has nothing to do with the Bible. When the Bible says "The Word of God is powerful, sharper than a 2 edged sword" (Heb 4:12), it is here referring (I believe) to a spoken word, not a written word (Greek scholars may want to speak to this). You see - the Bible is never self-referential - it never refers to itself, because it did not exist when these words were written. When it refers to Scriptures, it is refering to the Hebrew scriptures. Jesus spent a lot of time (it would seem from the Gospels) arguing with the authorities of the day who claimed to know what God wanted because they knew the Scriptures. Constantly he was telling them that they taking the words in the scripture, and twisting them to mean something that God did not mean. He was telling them that HE is the way, the truth, the word, the light, the bread etc. When we become so focused on what we say the bible says, we can lost touch that it is Jesus himself who is the Word of God, and forget to get to know Him. In fact, if we place knowing the Bible above knowing Jesus, we have made an idol of the Bible. How can we know Jesus - yes through the Bible. Gay marriages were not an issue in the times of Jesus - or not one that is recorded in the Bible. But prostitute women were. We can look at how Jesus responded to prostitute women, and gain an understanding how he would probably respond to gay people today. He accepted them, he forgave them, he allowed them to minister in a very personal manner to him. He acknowledged that the samaritan woman at the well had many husbands, but he comissioned her to preach his message to her city (effectively). Yes, and when he treated the prostitute woman kindly, and rebuked those who brought her to him, and wanted "the punishment iccording to the scriptures" to be carried out, then he told her to go and sin no more. I think it is important to get to know the Jesus of the Bible, and to follow his example as portrayed in the Bible. He is the Word of God. George raises some good points here. I am reflecting here from someone who grew up being taught that the Bible means something in particular, but as I have grown, and read, and learned, I have discovered that this was not necessarily the case. It can create a degree of confusion when we come to realise that those who brought you to faith, and you respect and admire may have “got it wrong” It can be a challenge to accept that there are opposite points of view, that can perfectly legitimately be declared to come from the truth of the Bibie.

My pastor says that when he left Bible College, he was certain he knew what the Bible says about most issues. 30 years later, he says is now much less certain about most things, but what he is certain of (our sinfulness, the cross, redemption), he is more certain of. I believe that it is a characteristic of maturity of faith when you can accept that there are many ways to interpret what the BIble says, and how to apply it to everyday life.

How can this be, surely the Bible is the Word of God, and so it can only be right or wrong. Well, actually the term the “Word of God” demonstrates one of the most important considerations. The Bible was never written in the first place in English - and when it comes to this phrase, more than one Greek word was used, which mean different things. Jesus is said to be the Word of God (John 1) So that has nothing to do with the Bible. When the Bible says “The Word of God is powerful, sharper than a 2 edged sword” (Heb 4:12), it is here referring (I believe) to a spoken word, not a written word (Greek scholars may want to speak to this).

You see - the Bible is never self-referential - it never refers to itself, because it did not exist when these words were written. When it refers to Scriptures, it is refering to the Hebrew scriptures.

Jesus spent a lot of time (it would seem from the Gospels) arguing with the authorities of the day who claimed to know what God wanted because they knew the Scriptures. Constantly he was telling them that they taking the words in the scripture, and twisting them to mean something that God did not mean. He was telling them that HE is the way, the truth, the word, the light, the bread etc.

When we become so focused on what we say the bible says, we can lost touch that it is Jesus himself who is the Word of God, and forget to get to know Him. In fact, if we place knowing the Bible above knowing Jesus, we have made an idol of the Bible. How can we know Jesus - yes through the Bible.

Gay marriages were not an issue in the times of Jesus - or not one that is recorded in the Bible. But prostitute women were. We can look at how Jesus responded to prostitute women, and gain an understanding how he would probably respond to gay people today. He accepted them, he forgave them, he allowed them to minister in a very personal manner to him. He acknowledged that the samaritan woman at the well had many husbands, but he comissioned her to preach his message to her city (effectively). Yes, and when he treated the prostitute woman kindly, and rebuked those who brought her to him, and wanted “the punishment iccording to the scriptures” to be carried out, then he told her to go and sin no more.

I think it is important to get to know the Jesus of the Bible, and to follow his example as portrayed in the Bible. He is the Word of God.

]]> By: george http://www.signposts.org.au/2004/08/19/questions-about-following-christ/#comment-3188 george Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2004/08/19/questions-about-following-christ/#comment-3188 Jake: you said "then he told her to go and sin no more" That's key don't you think? Isn't it from God's Word that we can determine what is sin and what isn't? What follows is a response to the post on your blog about how I guess it is that you view the Bible. "I think what happens when we don't want to submit to God's Word we come up with this kind of a philosophy of what it is all about. Its God's Word that has changed me. Its the Bible that God has used to show me the way to Christ. I know its true because His Spirit convicts me of it. His Spirit convicted me of my sin. His Spirit leads me through His Word. He has done all the work. My part is how do I respond. I'll tell you how I respond. I thirst for more of Him. I want to know God and pursue Him. As I go into the Bible it just becomes so clear that it it God's Word. How,when I'm wrestling with something or trying to figure out what God would have me do,how often He will answer it for me using His Word. That's because its God's Word, a supernatural book. How when I pray as I go to His Word that He would teach me His ways, His truths, His paths, how he does each and every time. Its in submission that He can begin to work in our lives. When we submit to Him and His Word. Its all laid out for us we just need to do our part. He's done His part. He offers us freedom in Him. But that can only come in submission. What is it that He has said as opposed to what is it that I want to do and how can I get that to fit somehow within His will. I don't think it works that way. From my own life I can testify to that. You want me and others to believe that the Bible is man's response to the Devine? That the Bible isnot God's Word? Is that really what you are saying? George | Email | Homepage | 08.22.04 - 6:03 pm | # Jake: you said “then he told her to go and sin no more” That’s key don’t you think? Isn’t it from God’s Word that we can determine what is sin and what isn’t?

What follows is a response to the post on your blog about how I guess it is that you view the Bible.
“I think what happens when we don’t want to submit to God’s Word we come up with this kind of a philosophy of what it is all about.

Its God’s Word that has changed me. Its the Bible that God has used to show me the way to Christ.

I know its true because His Spirit convicts me of it. His Spirit convicted me of my sin. His Spirit leads me through His Word. He has done all the work. My part is how do I respond. I’ll tell you how I respond. I thirst for more of Him. I want to know God and pursue Him.

As I go into the Bible it just becomes so clear that it it God’s Word. How,when I’m wrestling with something or trying to figure out what God would have me do,how often He will answer it for me using His Word. That’s because its God’s Word, a supernatural book. How when I pray as I go to His Word that He would teach me His ways, His truths, His paths, how he does each and every time.

Its in submission that He can begin to work in our lives. When we submit to Him and His Word. Its all laid out for us we just need to do our part. He’s done His part. He offers us freedom in Him. But that can only come in submission.

What is it that He has said as opposed to what is it that I want to do and how can I get that to fit somehow within His will. I don’t think it works that way. From my own life I can testify to that.

You want me and others to believe that the Bible is man’s response to the Devine? That the Bible isnot God’s Word? Is that really what you are saying?
George | Email | Homepage | 08.22.04 - 6:03 pm | #

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