Family First - the phenomenon
I keep returning to the issue about Family First and their involvement in the election. I read with interest the
Saint’s post on the topic, along with this offering from the daily flute.
On Saturday, the party released this statement:
The party is not a church party or an Assembly of God party, nor is it funded by AOG churches. It does see itself as SOCIALLY CONSERVATIVE, with Family Values based on Christian ethics. Like any main-stream party we do not have on record the religious affiliations of any of our members. The Board of Reference in South Australia includes business-people, members of the medical profession, as well as ministers and people from Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran and other church groups. The rapid national growth of the party leding into this election and the late decision to contest in all seats possible, has meant that in some states there are candidates, with strong family values, who have been introduced to the party through personal relationships they have from their involvement in community/church networks.
This all may be true, and I don’t have any objection at all to christian people being in politics, or even a party which is predominantly people who are members of churches (the Liberal party also springs to mind as an example of this).
A quick survey of the details at the AEC reveals on my count 98 candidates for Family First running on the various senate and house tickets. Seventeen of those (17.34%) list their occupation as pastor, minister or minister of religion. That doesn’t include those like Danny Nalliah who, while a minister at Catch the Fire ministries, lists his occupation as “president”.
It doesn’t bother me that there is such a high proportion of ministers in these candidates (by my count, the Fred Nile party has 4, the nationals 1, Liberal 2 and the Democrats 1). Rather, what concerns me is the fact that, at least in some cases, it seems to be hidden.
Of the 17 ministers listed as candidates, 5 have no profile on the family first website (”coming soon!” - better hope that arrives before the election). 6 state unequivocally that the person currently works as a pastor or minister. The rest use a series of euphemisms or vague statements:
” X has served as a pastor in NSW”
“X’s current position requires him to provide pastoral leadership, counselling and care to numbers of families in the Launceston area.”
“Y has been providing pastoral care and leadership for several years but recently released himself from that area to concentrate more on community programs and issues.”
“he also provides pastoral care and leadership in the newly established suburb of Caroline Springs”
“Since 1991, David has worked in pastoral leadership positions.”
I think that there is a place in Australian politics for a conservative minor party which is not a bunch of whack-jobs (notable previous candidates for whack-job of the year being the Fred Nile Party and One Nation). From all I have seen, Family First seems to steer away from the worst excesses of moralism and have expressly confirmed that they oppose discrimination on the basis of sexuality even though they would be opposed to gay marriage (which is effectively adopting both the Labor and Liberal position).
However all the tip-toeing around makes people like me react as if there is some great global conspiracy to get the christians into the houses of parliament. The weird thing of it is that most of these people would probably be happy to say that their involvement in politics would be motivated by a desire to express faith in action. Which is fine in my view. And saying so probably wouldn’t cause them any losses in the key groups that are likely to support a morally conservative party like this.
Anyway, that was a big rant. Family First of course should not be keeping information about people’s religious affiliation. However, it should also not tolerate candidates being less than open about their employment history and current community affiliations.
September 28th, 2004 at 1:09 pm
A quick survey of the details at the AEC reveals on my count 98 candidates for Family First running on the various senate and house tickets. Seventeen of those (17.34%) list their occupation as pastor, minister or minister of religion.
Wow. What Stats package did you use to come up with that percentage? The “.34″ really was a nice touch, too.
I really love the euphemistic use of “pastoral leadership” and “counseling” instead of minister or church leader.
But, to the point, one has to wonder what percentage of the Family First membership is engaged in ministry (it seems awfully easy to become a minister or counselor these days)? In other words, is the percentage of ministers running for office from Family First disproportionate to the number of ministers within the organization. It’s entirely possible that the other parties are disproportionately *low* in pastoral representation in politics. (am I making this point clearly? It sounds very confusing when I read it in my head)
September 28th, 2004 at 1:40 pm
I thought the statistical analysis was the best part of this post…
The reason why this gets so much play here is that we are such a publicly secular society. I guess the point is that where you have a political party whose candidature is overwhelmingly church members, overwhelmingly of a particular denomination, at what point does it become a “christian party”? If all of the candidates and members of the party are members of the AOG church, is it really accurate to say that the party has no links to the AOG church?
September 28th, 2004 at 2:06 pm
I got an email from Crikey on family first. I’ll see if i can hunt it down….if not crikey.com.au
September 28th, 2004 at 2:09 pm
good, bad…whatever make up your own mind…but here’s the info:
http://crikey.com.au/politics/2004/09/21-0001.html
September 28th, 2004 at 2:52 pm
‘(it seems awfully easy to become a minister or counselor these days)? ‘
Not the point of your post Bryan or Dan, but as someone who has been through the process and succeeded it was far from easy. I can see why you might think that though. ( I thought I would answer your question mark).
September 28th, 2004 at 3:06 pm
Bill, I absolutely would agree, but I think it does depend on where and how you get your qualification. I have a printout on my wall of my certificate nominating me as a Universal Church Life minister - I got that one from the internet.
I think that it can be easy to get the title if all you want is the title (even if you are a little more involved than the internet method). If you actually want to be trained, accountable and challenged to grow into the role, then it is a lot harder.
September 28th, 2004 at 9:05 pm
I think that it can be easy to get the title if all you want is the title (even if you are a little more involved than the internet method). If you actually want to be trained, accountable and challenged to grow into the role, then it is a lot harder.
Depends on what you call easy, I guess. If the idea of “hard” is going to seminary for three years and filling your head with book knowledge, then I guess you’d think it hard. (Or you could go the Internet route, or - as some people in these parts of the rural U.S. South - just start preaching and get a b.a. from bible institute) I also speak as someone who spent five years at a very large seminary in the training program.
I tend to think the apostles at least had it harder than that.
Back on point, I would think that an organization that is totally made up of another organization’s membership would have a problem defining itself apart from that membership, unless it really were a separate entity that grew out of the first. I could think of some sort of a movement forming from a group of people within a church who did so without the approval or coordination of the “host.”
That may not be the case here. But I would think the stakes would be very high for the group to deny this stuff if it were true. If the connections were proved, I’d think they’d be discredited.
October 2nd, 2004 at 10:52 am
I think I got a mention elsewhere on the site for this, but this is the URL for my blog discussing Family First. Cheers.
October 15th, 2004 at 8:45 pm
Apparently they are not so much a ‘church group’ as ‘a family’ (I got that from one of their State websites).
To expand on that - Vote 1 Families - hence the Family First Party. Clever? The Australian public knew little of this when they voted - all Liberal voters giving their preferences to this party.
They are now trying to deny any association with the AOG. Look at this newsletter available via this AOG website. I refer to the following extract
http://www.aogq.com.au/data/images/newsletters/stateconnections_july2004.pdf
“FAMILY FIRST
By now you would be aware that Pastor John Lewis will be standing for the Senate at the next Federal election. Furthermore, a number of good Christian people have nominated for Lower House seats. I spoke last week with Brigadier Jim Wallace (from the Australian Christian Lobby) concerning a number of issues and proposed laws currently being prepared for presentation in our Federal Parliament. As ministers of the Gospel, we must have a genuine sense of responsibility as we watch our social fabric deteriorate.
We all need to handle political issues wisely, and though we have no right to tell our people how to vote, I urge you to:
1. Call your people to pray leading up to this next election.
2. Be aware of what each candidate stands for. Where necessary, meet with them prior to the election.
3. Encourage your people to vote for men and women who will stand for righteous values not just play some party line.”
Nowhere in this article do they make specific reference to any other political party or the policies of other political parties?
Other References:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/24/1095961859541.html?from=moreStories
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/other.aspx?id=18222
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=2580
http://www.unbelief.org/fundies/ffp.html
http://www.crikey.com.au/politics/2004/09/21-0001.html
This one makes references to being against political parties who are inherintly hostile to the US alliance:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1212902.htm
But then again God speak to Bush too (or so he tells us):
http://www.detnews.com/2004/macomb/0410/08/c05-296230.htm
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0%2C5744%2C9707447%255E12272%2C00.html
http://www.irregulartimes.com/godspeaksthroughme.html
http://www.etherzone.com/2004/moor020204.shtml
The Family First Party is a political group representing the Assemblies of God (Pentacostal Evangelists):
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11054967%255E28737,00.html
This is from a newspapers’Have your say’ where readers can write in and a few of the local pentacostals have given some insights into their belief system and what they are preaching. These guys are seriously wacky and present themselves as ‘christians’ exchanging preferences with the Liberals at the last election. ‘Family First’ has a sweet ring to it but I wonder how many people knew they were the wacky pentacostels they were voting in the last election. Every one who Voted 1 Liberal - also voted this religious cult.
From the Canberra Times - Have your say (readers feedback).
YOU CAN’T HIDE FROM GOD
Connie Perry
Friday, 8 October 2004
If the loony antichrist left think they can hide in a polling booth and vote in secret, they need to think again.
When you vote tomorrow, remember, God is watching.
Will you vote for God’s man (the Hon JWHoward)or will you vote for God’s enemy (Mark Latham?
whurst - totally!!
Let this be a lesson to the left.
connie perry
Monday, 11 October 2004
to all the loony left. let it be known that God is not mocked. He installs all leaders, and his will is divine.
John Howard will lead us into an era of unprecedented moral values - God be praised
HYS Riddled with demons and evil spirits
Connie Perry
Tuesday, 12 October 2004
The Bible tells us, that where evil dwells, evil people will dwell also. This is true of HYS.(ie. Have Your Say in the Canberra Times - referring to those who have expressed a reaction to the Pentacostals views expressed in this forum).
Good people like Graeme Gibson, GAT and myself are only here to peirce the darkness with the light of truth and salvation.
You get to choose, join us with God, or role around in your demonic filth and immorality.
One day, very soon, the three of us will be gone from this forum as we join with all other true believers in the wedding of the lamb. Only those invited to the Lords wedding feast will drink from the waters of life.
All others will perish during humanity’s tribulation. but it doesnt end there for you, on that day, you will begin your journey into an eternity of sorrow and regret.
We won’t be able to save you then - time is short.
I don’t make the rules - I follow them
Connie Perry
Tuesday, 12 October 2004
I’m not judging anyone. But it doesn’t take a Christian to know that Whurst has done his dash with God. I seriously doubt there is any option for him now.
I’ve even taken him off my prayer list, because it would just be wasting time now. I don’t want to say, he’s going to hell, I’m not saying it to be hurtful, I’m just stating a fact which is in the bible.
Just look at Family First. They are Assemblies of God, Pentecostal Christians. God put them in the Senate, not the Australian voters. You sinners need to watch and learn.
The Lord is looking over us
Peter Jones
Sunday, 10 October 2004
What a lovely Sunday morning, I went to Church and Jesus visited me. He spoke in tongues through me saying how good it was that the evil Mark Latham had been defeated. Yes, Jesus feels the endtimes have been postponed at least 3 years.
I hope to be able to thank God profusely next Sunday too. I am hoping that God doesn’t regard the ACT too trivial to chuck out Jon Stanhope and his nasty co-conspitators from the Democrats and Greens. Pol Pot was quite something on re-education, and these people will try to force us to accept homosexuality and paedophilia which are synonymous sins against God.
Finally, we have to wish that God gives the most decent Christian leader ever, George W Bush, another four years in the White House.
You are such an inspiration Jesus!
Rejoice!Rejoice!Rejoice!
nrwatson
Sunday, 10 October 2004
What a wonderful day for Australia and Australian democracy! The bigots, fanatics, haters and wedgers have been defeated once again by Iron Jack. The whole weight of the chats has been mobilised against him from the beginning of his time as PM, but he has seen them off once more. The hysterics who are so remote from the modern, tolerant, multiracial Australia that we are blessed to live in, have been silenced surely. Listen to the voice of the people, you bourgeois prats - the voice of the immigrants, the NESB’s, the aspiring classes. They have spoken. Iron Jack is the man, despite the deceit and perfidy of the ABC, the Fairfascist press, the Saddam morning Herald and the rest of the useful idiots who think they are born to rule, but have come up so short, so often, against a
true Australian. The people have overcome that flimsy tissue of lies put about by their ‘distinguished’ betters. Rejoice! Rejoice! Rejoice!
Sara
Tuesday, 12 October 2004
I honestly have no idea, but it bugs me so much.
Who cares if they think, you, me, a collective “we” are all going to “their” hell.
To be quite honest if it’s their idea of heaven and hell they are on about I’d rather rot in hell with the rest of the “sinners that can’t be saved no matter what” - than w*nk in heaven with those losers any day of my enternal after life.
no offence to sincere religious people.
Re David Hall - the holy spirit is cool.
whurst
Tuesday, 12 October 2004
Yes David, you are right.
I apologise for being snippy at the Holy Spirit and for any offence I have cause any genuine Christian.
Those Born Again ballbags, just rile me up, and sometimes I forget that the Real God, and Holy Spirit have nothing to do with Pentecostalism sects and cults.
These low-life tumours try to evevate themselves by saying God spoke to me, or the holy spirit made me coffee, and my natural retort tends to focus on them all as a collective.
So once again, to David Hall and anyone else (apart from Pentecostal Polyps)I am sorry if I caused offence. Having said that, I look forward to the day a Pentecostal knocks on my door, or if I see one on a street corner, or if I stumble into one of your Yabbada, yabbada, yabbada sessions, I intend to raise hell. so, make sure you’re wearing a hat.
J Daley who voted for who?
kenneth vaughan
Monday, 11 October 2004
And with comments like yours John Daley
Monday, 11 October 2004.
Do you really think everyone in Australia voted Liberals or Family First?
A word from Hades
Satan
Monday, 11 October 2004
You’ve crossed the line Whurst.
“Connie Perry
Monday, 11 October 2004
You blasphemed the Holy Spirit. This is a sin that cannot be forgiven, not even by God.
You may have signed your soul over to Satan - I’m afraid you are lost my friend - no salvation for you”
Gibbon, how can you pass judgement??
Are you meant to be a god??
Time to come clean Family First
D.Fraser
Monday, 11 October 2004
With the Family First Party poised to gain the balance of power in the Senate isn’t it about time they told Australians exactly where they stand on issues such as the detention of women and children asylum seekers, the protection of Medicare, education and social justice issue’s in general. It is one thing to call yourself Family First and give Australians a very basic idea of what you stand for but it is another to spell out what you really stand for. After all you may be the only thing that stands between a dictatorship and a democracy.
Connie - translate this.
whurst
Monday, 11 October 2004
yabbada yabbada!
I am the Holy Spirit.
to connie perry re the Holy Spirit
david w hall
Monday, 11 October 2004
The Holy Spirit is cool-it’s just your shithouse lunatic spirit which bothers me. They tell me Hell’s a hot place, and those of you who presume to be in His’s grace while on earth,tend to burn for a very long time, lady. Dont forget to take your tablets tonight. God knows you have deluded yourself again that you dont need to take them.
MORE YOUR SAY >>
A visit from God
WHurst
Monday, 11 October 2004
While I was gardening on Sunday, I was over come with this bright light and a strong purfume of roses, I looked up and saw the Holy Spirit of God. He said unto me “yabbada, yabbada, yabbada” instantly I knew what he was saying,(he said that the Pentecostals have given power to the antichrist’s assistant, and the mark of the beast will begin in this country, under the orders of Howard with in a year”
so I replied “yabbada, yabbada, yabbada” which is tongues for (but they the Pentes are blaming you for this dreadful election result)
He then gave me a message for Australia “Yabbada, yabbada, yabbada, yabbada” let those who have ears listen, yabbada, yabbada, yabbada. And he shall spew Pentecostal snake wranglers from his arse”
Amen.
To Kevin O’Farrell
cna
Monday, 11 October 2004
May I remind you that this is a YOUR say NOT God say.
This is why the world sees us as haters, hypocrites etc as we speak our opinion and add God’s name to it - speak on your own behalf because God knows exactly what He is doing - you on the other hand may need to attend church regularly than just once in awhile and then splurt out such non-sense talk.
You are a disgrace….
John Daley
Sunday, 10 October 2004
Kevin O’Farrell, “God will get His”, Sunday, 10 October - accept thatn you are crazy and that the majority can recognise the truth!
Go to Confession - you idiot!
sinners shut up
Stuart Loughton
Sunday, 10 October 2004
Let’s get this straight for all the Pentecostal, evangelical weirdo church mental patients. There is no link between you and your spastic beliefs and John Howard winning elections. I would have thought being a real Christian would mean NOT lying, stealing and killing people. They are sins according to your book. That’s a fact.
I know many Christians who are Labor voters and don’t advocate any of the above. Being a good Christian is not the God given right of the right, irrespective of how corrupt one is. You just make that shit up because it fits with right wing assholes philosophy of ‘I know everything.’ And if you claim God for you side .. well no one can claim any higher power than that.
So as he’s such a sinner Howard as a good Christian no doubt booked his ticket to hell long ago. You will all be joining him. (I don’t actually believe in hell but I believe that people get their comeuppance and you will all get it, the sooner the better.)
Peter Jones is a wacko.
…..god spoke to him - what bull!
Sunday, 10 October 2004
Next he’ll be walking around in circles speaking in foreign tongues and hearing little voices in his head. God obviously had nothing to do with the election. He’s just up there shaking his head in dis-belief at the result like all the other humanitarians in Australia are.
God will get His
Kevin O’Farrell
Sunday, 10 October 2004
I went to Mass this morning, something I rarely do. I felt I needed to pray for our great country now that it has extended its flirtation with the evil John Howard. Jesus does forgive liars but only to a point. Jesus probably feels it’s a sick country which rewards liars by increasing their political majorities.
I’m not as patient as Jesus - who is in fact? In the end however, God will rid us of evil people like John Howard, Saddam, bin Laden, Tony Blair and George Bush.
Real christian values and morals
Stewart
Friday, 8 October 2004
Graeme Gibson, I’m glad that I don’t go to your church, It seems to be more satanic in things and less in real Christian Values and morals.Real Christians don’t believe in killing innocent people based on false and misleading information.
It’s time this current Government got voted out and we all became tree huggers instead of pre-emptive killers.
Now - this is probably more to the point:
While walking down the street, John Howard is hit by a truck and dies. His soul arrives in heaven, and he is met by St. Peter at the entrance.
“Welcome to heaven,” says St. Peter. “Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see such a high official around these parts, you see, and so we’re not sure what to do with you.”"No problem,” says John Howard, “just let me in,”
“Well, I’d like to, but I have orders from ‘on high.’ What we do is have you spend a day in hell, and a day in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.”
“Okay, I’ve made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,” says John Howard. “I’m sorry but we have our rules.”
And, with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a club, and standing in front of it are all his friends, and other politicians who’d worked with him. Everyone is happy and in evening dress.
They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they’d had, while getting rich at expense of the people. They play a great game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne. Also present is the devil, who’s really a very friendly guy, who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They’re all having such a good time that, before he realizes, it is time for him to go.
Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator closes. The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven, where St. Peter is waiting for him.
“Now it’s time for you to visit heaven.” So, 24 hours pass, with John Howard joining a group of contented souls, moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp, and before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by, and St. Peter returns.
“Well, you have spent a day in hell and a day in heaven. Now choose for eternity.”
John Howard reflects for a minute, then answers: “Well, I never would have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I’d be better off in hell.”
So, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.
Now the doors of the elevator open, and he finds he’s in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and debris. He sees all of his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash, and putting it in bags. The Devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder.
“I don’t understand,” stammers John Howard. “Yesterday there was a golf course and a club, we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, danced, and had a great time. Now there’s nothing but a wasteland full of garbage, and my friends look miserable. What happened??” The Devil looks at him, smiles and says, “YESTERDAY WE WERE CAMPAIGNING; TODAY YOU VOTED….
October 17th, 2004 at 9:30 pm
“The Religion Report” on Radio National ( )on 29 Sept devoted the whole program to FFP(Chair,Founder,as well as a comment from a prof of theology).Check the references,particularly ,which appears to be a watchdog site on the AOG!!
Alan