two lovers
Picture two lovers side by side
who sleep and dream and wake to hold
the real and the imagined world
body by body, word by word
in the wild halo of their thoughts.
So, Gwen Harwood writes in the preface of Terry Veling book - Living in the Margins. Imagine if the two lovers were the established Church and the emerging Church. Like all lovers there is work on both sides to occur.
May the courtship continue!
April 23rd, 2005 at 5:17 pm
We were all sinners Lance but I think you wil find all changed after recieving grace in the N/T.
April 24th, 2005 at 2:12 am
But you haven’t changed Homer.
That’s the point.
You’re still proud…you’re still haughty…you’re still conceited…..you’re still a gossip…and you’re still unrepentent.
April 24th, 2005 at 8:38 pm
I do find it ironic when you mix up your terms.
April 25th, 2005 at 2:19 am
You’re still proud, you’re still haughty, you’re still conceited..you’re still a gossip, and you’re still unrepentent.
April 25th, 2005 at 9:10 am
and you still don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
A proud and haughty person for example does not ‘need’ grace.
April 25th, 2005 at 1:39 pm
And that is why you are a proud and haughty person.
Scripture records teachings of God against being proud and haughty…directed to God’s chosen people…not to unbelievers.
In the same way…warnings against being arrogant..and conceited were written to believers in the New Testament.
There are other writings about what the ‘ungodly’ get up to….but in many places in the bible…there are warnings to BELIEVERS against being caught up in the sins of pride…being haughty….arrogant…and conceited…
The writings are so obvious and direct..that I’m struggling to understand why I even have to remind you of this.
You make these occasional references to being a ’sinner’…..but you keep contradicting that by saying that you ‘were’……..past tense…… a sinner…(I’ve seen you say that several times now..even if you don’t realise that you’re saying it)….and so no longer ‘need’ grace. You may not need grace from God….because Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient for your sin…but you sure as well need grace from other people..for being an arrogant turd Homer.
You have previously claimed that repentence of sin for you is a daily chore. But the clear evidence is that was a blatant lie.
You’re still proud, you’re still haughty, you’re still conceited..you’re still a gossip, and you’re still unrepentent.
Of course..the opportunity is always open for you to fill us in on the SPECIFIC sins of which you are currently repenting.
But that won’t happen because the daily repentence chore claim of yours was always untrue - a myth.
April 25th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
Lance you go from being an ignorant fool to being a dangerous one.
It is when you are dangerous I will always intervene because some unfortunate out there may be influenced by your dangerous words.
Meanwhile yu might just cogitate on why Paul refers to previously being in sin whilst at other times saying he still sins.
April 25th, 2005 at 4:27 pm
You’re still proud, you’re still haughty, you’re still conceited..you’re still a gossip, and you’re still unrepentent.
April 25th, 2005 at 7:45 pm
Lance and Homer - cut it out! Don’t the two of you get fed up with goading each other or trying to teach the other?! This has gone from a conversation (a much-needed one and helpful one for some of us who perhaps are more ignorant and stuck in our ways than we would wish) concerning emerging and established churches to a slanging match . . . again! Enough.
For me, this highlights why the church is in trouble. Conversations are side-tracked before we can be taught. The trouble is that both of you, Lance and Homer, could probably teach all of us something and help us in our efforts to be true disciples. Sadly, for me, your constant bickering overwhelms your wisdom.
Please, for the rest of us, stick to the point so that we can all learn a bit.
April 25th, 2005 at 7:46 pm
I have just realised - ironically I see Homer and Lance demonstrating the way some ‘lovers’ (as per topic) truly behave. See, I’ve learned something . . . .
April 26th, 2005 at 3:04 am
Homer and I…lovers?
Quick..quick….a bucket….quick….splooshhheewaahhhhhhhhhh………..hack hack hack………..cough….splawwwwwwwshhhhhhhhhh……………….uuuurrrrrrhghghhhhhhhhh……….ohhhhhh….
(edit - cleans chunks off blog page)
All Homer and I are doing are expressing the mutual resentment that’s always been there…but has been partially covered-up by the ‘niceness’ of church.
Homer, you’re still proud, you’re still haughty, you’re still conceited..you’re still a gossip, and you’re still unrepentent.
April 26th, 2005 at 9:13 am
At least your sense of humour is intact Lance.
April 26th, 2005 at 10:10 am
Actually that is entirely incorrect.
Lance patently does not understand terms he throws about such as pharisee or proud and haughty for that matter.
On that he is not on his pat malone and I really couldn’t give a toss it is when he makes statements that a person does not need to repent he has to be dressed down because some poor unfortunate might think that is correct.
April 26th, 2005 at 5:46 pm
If you believe repentence is absolutely necessary Homer…why not then repent of your proud…conceited…haughty …unloving…..self-seeking….stiff-necked arrogance?
Can you not see the point that your own unrepented sin makes a mockery of your conservative beliefs?
I’m genuinely surprised the penny hasn’t dropped with you yet.