Hillsong on ABC’s Australian Story
Garth gives a heads up to something that might be worth a watch – Hillsong on ABC’s Australian Story
In the Australian today…An ABC TV Australian story will air next Monday night figuring Brian and Bobby Houston pastors from Hillsong. It promises to be an insight into their lives, their home and their church.
July 29th, 2005 at 8:53 am
The Australian has a follow up story that may be of interest today, although I must say say I find it a bit of gutter journalism. They are trying to ‘make a story’ out of nothing and defame Houston.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16083423%255E2702,00.html
There also seems to be a problem with this page. The sidebar is covering up some of the posts text and the opportunity to click on the ‘make a comment’. It was tricky but after a few attempts I managed to get into the comments section. Thought you would like to know mate!
July 29th, 2005 at 8:59 am
Hi Garth, thanks for pointing out the sidebar problem. should be ok now. Just a long url that was inserted.
July 29th, 2005 at 12:27 pm
yeah, gutter journalism, but it certainly sounds like the Houston’s need a bit of education on directors’ duties…
July 29th, 2005 at 2:11 pm
bec, agreed. its not good that religious leaders can say publicly one thing and be doing another. They treat us as if we are fools.
July 29th, 2005 at 2:16 pm
FOM, refer to Lance’s comments on wankers.
They treat people like fools because there are a lot of fools out there
July 29th, 2005 at 2:19 pm
they told BRW publicly that THEY have a house and unit???
perhaps lance should interview them!
July 29th, 2005 at 2:20 pm
is this not misleading and deceptive conduct???
July 29th, 2005 at 4:44 pm
How exactly is it ‘gutter journalism’..if everything being done at Hillsong or by Brian and Bobbie is above board?
The report in The Australian is merely a ‘matter of record’ of how the church and its leaders conducts its business and its finances - what it does with its money, which it’s always asserting is totally open and accountable.
An inference that the church may be involved in something shonky, could only be that of the reader, if what is being reported in the paper is the standard practice of Australian church leaders.
Or, could it be there is something wrong at Hillsong that needs investigating?
Congratulations Jennifer Sexton and Rupert for doing the investigating that the (wider) church should be doing.
July 29th, 2005 at 4:52 pm
It’s standard practice isn’t it, for Australian church leaders to use a church ministry of which they are a director, to buy their own property to create a substantial profit for the church leader?
I’m sure I’ve seen that in the ‘what we believe’ pamphlets of churches somewhere.
July 29th, 2005 at 5:16 pm
“Congratulations Jennifer Sexton and Rupert for doing the investigating that the (wider) church should be doing” - please explain?
July 29th, 2005 at 5:45 pm
he claims that he costs the church nothing - its little wonder he can afford to not draw a wage from the church!.
July 29th, 2005 at 5:46 pm
Everybody else has to be accountable. Why not churches?
I had a rather heated discussion with a pastor colleague only a few nights ago about the accountability gap. What I’m learning is that pastors, particularly of ‘contemporary’ churches, (well, contemporary to the 1970’s, but that’s another issue) take VERY seriously the expectation that they should comply with the law, which is good.
However, there is very little policing done of what is technically legal, but unethical. The example I used with the pastor colleague, was a church aggressively raising money, saying it was going to put a big effort into ministering to drug addicts…….The money comes in, but nothing ever happens in reality. And then the church hypes up the next big thing … aggressively appeals for money to make it happen..and then when the money comes in…it moves on to the next ‘big thing’. (Hi Riverview…)
Now in the case of Hillsong, this kind of funny business should be dealt with at the local or wider church level, but it’s not….so the media..is having to step into the role that should be being fulfilled by the church.
Perhaps the real question that needs to be asked by the media, is does the church believe in right and wrong anymore?
I know the church doesn’t believe in bullshit and spin being wrong any more (this is the subject of a rant I’ve been saving up and refining my thoughts).
July 29th, 2005 at 6:27 pm
“Perhaps the real question that needs to be asked by the media, is does the church believe in right and wrong anymore?”
good question. it seems its leaders don’t. they seem to believe that they are ‘entitled’ to s special lifestyle, and be a law unto themselves. where is the example of temperance and sacrifice?
I have no probs if a minister is given a house to live in, or given a good salary - as long as their is full disclosure. I am offended when they bend the truth as with the example in the Australian today.
what do you mean by “Congratulations Jennifer Sexton and Rupert for doing the investigating that the (wider) church should be doing” - please explain?
July 30th, 2005 at 2:56 am
Jennifer Sexton researched and wrote the story, and Rupert Murdoch’s The Australian employed her.
If she hadn’t done the legwork…no-one would probably ever know about this. Certainly the church would never have dealt with it.
July 30th, 2005 at 1:08 pm
Intriguing and disturbing.
I note that “The church refused to speak with The Australian but an item posted on its website last May claimed “Brian and Bobbie have a one-bedroom unit in Bondi”.
Why would a Church not want to comment?. There may well be a good reason for the Property transaction – but if the Church was truly transparent (as it asserts) and dealt with integrity then one should think that it should be open to full disclosure and happy to talk about what is going on.
I’m wondering even as this information is out in public, will the Church do anything? Will the congregation of Hillsong turn a blind eye on the basis that allegiance to Leadership rather than to Truth and Scripture. Noting that the congregation does not have the power to do so due to its governance structure (i.e. the Pastor appoints the Board - those who represent the Church cannot elect the Pastor/Elders). I would also like to know what Governance controls are in place to prevent these Churches from becoming inherented institutions (or worse family businesses). (Will Joel or Ben be the next Pastor of Hillsong? That may be OK, but what contols are in place to allow this to happen legitimately?)
I am concerned that maybe the leaders are profiting from an incorporated body. I hope I am wrong - as there are so many good people in these Churches.
From the Sydney Morning Herald “So why does he think the church has been so successful?” I think the biggest issue is relevance, I really do,” (says Houston), as we tour around the bland suburbs - row upon row of enormous, identical houses - of the Hills District, which surrounds his church. “We are scratching people where they are itching.”
2 Timothy 4:3 3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
July 30th, 2005 at 7:16 pm
I’m now going to rabbit on about nothing in particular.
Nothing unusual you might say, but it’s important I do this…so this extra-ordinarily long web page link doesn’t take over the frontpage of Signposts.
I think that’s enough crapping on to get us by….so here’s the link from the Hillsong site..which is the church’s response to the article in The Australian.
http://www.hillsong.com/church/bin/view.pl?sitename=church&page=australian0705&showmedia=true&showmedia=true
I wouldn’t mind hearing some response from real-life pastors about the ethics of all this.
July 30th, 2005 at 8:28 pm
Well it certainly appears to be all squeaky clean. As I said “There may well be a good reason for the Property transaction”.
These people have so much spin and integrity that the only attention that they should garner from now on…will be from the Australian Crickiet Board Selectors.
The disquiet in my spirit has now be comforted and I shall sleep in peace.
July 30th, 2005 at 10:10 pm
Of course 1) The media release does not explain why (as FOM stated) there was an inconstency between the BRW response “Bobbie and I have a unit” and the Truth (now we are told ‘LMI has a unit’).
2)That “In some recent years, the giving of LMI to Hillsong Church has exceeded Brian and Bobbie’s remuneration from the church” …not to hard if he did not draw a wage from the Church in some recent years.
3) If LMI needed properties why did they choose the two owned by the Pastors? Were there no others that suited the ministry requirements? One maybe, but two? Why were they not up-front with this.
Some responses only lead to deeper questions.
Sorry, I am becoming increasingly cynical, and this is not good for my own spiritual walk - but I cannot understand why these people cannot be straight.
Jesus, who these people claim to be an authority on told his followers “To let your Yes! be a Yes!, and your No!, be a No!”.
In other words “Be Straight!”.
August 4th, 2005 at 9:53 am
Who cares if the Houstons have property or not. Most people these days have some sort of investment property. Just because they are pastors doesn’t mean they have to be poor, whilst this is up for discussion also remeber that they are both authors and also sell many teaching resources too.
August 5th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
Why is that as “Christians” we focus on political correctness rather than radical living? I am no judge of Brian or Bobbie but I do recognise the thousands they lead to Christ which is their mission in life. I am reminded of the incident in John 8:7. In that story the people who claimed to be those who upheld the law were the first to back off
In an age where Churches are converted to pasta places one should ask the question “why”? The answer is complacency and small thinking.
August 8th, 2005 at 1:47 pm
As someone who knows Brian and indeed knew him really well many years back, I understand that he has been reluctant to speak with the media after being ‘burnt’ several years ago; he is trying to tell the truth in a way that will not be misconstrued. I feel that the Australian Story vindicated him and most importantly honoured our precious Jesus. He is a most generous man, in an under-the-wraps way, a RADICAL way; it puts my own level of giving to shame. One has to look past the superficialities that the press enjoy highlighting:the watch and Harley for instance. We also need to stop perpetuating the ‘lifestyle’, ‘Corinthian’ and ‘false teaching’ cliches/accusations/gossip that proliferate church circles - particularly evangelical ones. We are witnesses to a precious, largely unredeemed Australian public as well as to ‘heavenly beings’. They need to see Christians supporting one another and demonstrating the mark of LOVE. Let’s be squeaky-clean in our own dealings with others and let God judge Brian and Bobbie. Incidentally, I wonder how much of the flak they cop is due to their extraordinary creativity. Christian Australians don’t seem to sit comfortably with difference. And we are going to become notorious for inverse snobbery, snubbing the ‘glamour’ gifts,etc.
August 8th, 2005 at 1:48 pm
As someone who knows Brian and indeed knew him really well many years back, I understand that he has been reluctant to speak with the media after being ‘burnt’ several years ago; he is trying to tell the truth in a way that will not be misconstrued. I feel that the Australian Story vindicated him and most importantly honoured our precious Jesus. He is a most generous man, in an under-the-wraps way, a RADICAL way; it puts my own level of giving to shame. One has to look past the superficialities that the press enjoy highlighting:the watch and Harley for instance. We also need to stop perpetuating the ‘lifestyle’, ‘Corinthian’ and ‘false teaching’ cliches/accusations/gossip that proliferate church circles - particularly evangelical ones. We are witnesses to a precious, largely unredeemed Australian public as well as to ‘heavenly beings’. They need to see Christians supporting one another and demonstrating the mark of LOVE. Let’s be squeaky-clean in our own dealings with others and let God judge Brian and Bobbie. Incidentally, I wonder how much of the flak they cop is due to their extraordinary creativity. Christian Australians don’t seem to sit comfortably with difference. And we are going to become notorious for inverse snobbery, snubbing the ‘glamour’ gifts,etc.
August 8th, 2005 at 1:54 pm
44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.
August 10th, 2005 at 5:21 pm
Why do we focus so much of our attention on the things that just dont seem right when the things that are good go by unnoticed?
Hillsong have so many programs set up for victims of abuse to unplanned pregnancies.
And why do people think that just because Hillsong is a Church, they should not have money?? Should they be poor? Thats ridiculous. It’s not money thats evil, its the person behind it.
Brian and Bobbie may have some nice things, but why shouldn’t they? I think they deserve it.
Just remember this, Brian has given more money some years to the Church then it has given him!
JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE CHURCH LEADERS DOESNT MEAN THEY SHOULD BE POOR, what could they do with no money?
August 10th, 2005 at 5:24 pm
It is not fair that Hillsong come under such attack.What they do with their money should be THEIR business. How would you like it if people went around saying you have this, this and this when it just wasnt true?
The way they are treated just because they are a Church is un-Australian. If they have things let them have it.
August 10th, 2005 at 5:28 pm
‘jkrl’ and ‘not fair’….are you the same person……posting within 3 minutes of each other on a topic that’s been dormant for a few hours or days?
August 10th, 2005 at 5:28 pm
I have a problem with Jennifer Saxton
Something like the Houstons Father having accomadation provided by the Church is blown way out of proportion. Hills Christian Life Centre provided that accomadation - and that was BEFORE Brian Houston became leader. Subsequent to their deaths, the home was sold and the money reinvested in to the ministry work of Hillsong Church.
H
She also, at no point made any approach to Hillsong about making direct comment about LMI or the issues she raises in her article.
August 10th, 2005 at 5:29 pm
1 August 2005
The Editor
The Australian
Dear Editor
I refer to an article published in your newspaper on Friday 29 July 2005 by journalist Jennifer Sexton.
The inaccuracies start at the article’s headline, Property Deals at Hillsong, which incorrectly and misleadingly links Hillsong Church and Leadership Ministries Incorporated (LMI).
LMI is a Christian ministry and a not-for- profit organisation totally separate from Hillsong Church, and governed by a board of directors.
Although we have found many of the journalists working for the Australian to be fair and balanced, and would have no problem cooperating with them in the future, the same cannot be said for Ms Sexton.
At no point did she make any approach to us about making direct comment about LMI or the issues she raises in her article.
In direct response to the inaccuracies of her article:
LMI helps facilitate the breadth of Brian and Bobbie Houston’s international ministry opportunities, which include speaking, writing and providing ministry resources.
It also allows them to contribute financially back to the church and other charities dedicated to helping people. In some years, the giving of LMI to Hillsong Church has exceeded Brian and Bobbie’s remuneration from the church.
The article also refers to two properties purchased by LMI. These were purchased at market value based on independent valuations. The LMI properties are utilised for ministry purposes in a similar way that many churches or ministries would provide a manse for their ministers. This includes accommodation for visiting ministers, short-term housing for people in need, pastor’s retreats, religious training and events.
In regards to comments made about Frank and Hazel Houston, they lived in accommodation provided by the church in accordance with a decision made by the Board of Sydney Christian Life Centre prior to Brian’s oversight of that church.
Subsequent to their deaths, the home was sold and the money reinvested in to the ministry work of Hillsong Church.
August 10th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
3 comments now within 5 minutes in the same style.
Is the Hillsong supporter/s being totally up front with us…claiming it is different people posting essentially the same thing?
August 10th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
make that 4 comments in 6 minutes from the same person under different pseudonyms, trying to pretend they are different people..all supporting Hillsong.