Hillsong on ABC’s Australian Story
Garth gives a heads up to something that might be worth a watch – Hillsong on ABC’s Australian Story
In the Australian today…An ABC TV Australian story will air next Monday night figuring Brian and Bobby Houston pastors from Hillsong. It promises to be an insight into their lives, their home and their church.
March 11th, 2006 at 1:19 pm
Firstly, with regard to my last message I would like to add some additional points. I do not entirely agree with everything stated within that link I posted. It was a discussion point. But I do agree with a couple of things there. However, what must be clear is that we must “test what we learn”. There are too many gullible Christians out there.
I know that Hillsong is guilty of not entirely following the teachings of 1 Corinthians 14 from the pullpit (on occasions) with regard to the matter of Tongues. I will acknowledge that I’m aware of Robert Furgusson teaching the interpretation of tongues. How do I know all this, because I go to Hillsong. If you want a clear and blantant example on this Tongues issue, then let me say that Brian’s actions at the 2005 Hillsong Mens Conference when he did his sermon really proved this. He was encouranging the men to be filled with the spirit, to speak in tongues, he was encouraging those who haven’t spoken in tongues to just open their mouths and let it happen. My question to all of this when I witnessed this was “What happened to tongues being done “in order” ? What happened to tongues “being interpreted” as it is stated within 1 Corinthians 14 ?
Additionally, with regard to some of the questions that have been put to the earlier Hillsongers regarding Brian Houston about his contradictory statements I would like to make this clear.
One of my friends put the following message to Brian Houston in writing below: There are obvious reasons why I did not do this myself. People like Geoff Bullock and the other exhillsongers would know why.
Why should there be a collection at the Hillsong rallies when simple maths calculates an extraordinary non taxable profit ?
Back in 2003 within a Sydney Morning Herald Article (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/28/1043804401241.html) you were directly quoted as saying the following:
(Brian speaking): “I want to make it clear that I cost this church nothing, I want that on the record.” He earns some of his money, he says, as a property developer, “being a silent partner with a couple of guys from the church in building developments”, but he gets “the vast majority” of his money from overseas speaking engagements at other charismatic churches. He and Bobbie also get the royalties from those “Christian resources” out the front of the church.
Now recently there seems to be denials “I have never been a Propert Developer” (Letters to editor BRW June 2005) and also in the Australian Story interview on ABC back in (August 2005). The transcript of the Australian Story Article is at this link: http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2005/s1427560.htm
I’m aware that the journalist for the SMH article in 2003 has been questioned about your comments above and he has acknowledged that the 2003 comments are a direct quote.
So could someone there at Hillsong please tell the Truth ?
Guess what the response was to this ?
“…………Silence”
However, in defence of Steve, I will acknowledge that there are many decent people at Hillsong who have had their lives turned around as a result of giving their lives to Jesus. There are many decent people who make significant sacrifices whether it be in time or by other means.
With regard to what Geoff Bullock just stated in his blog above, all I can say is “yes” I noticed that too. If you check out the Hillsong web site, particularly Hillsong Music and go to the part that goes into the history of Hillsong Music, they have completely “blotted out” any existance whatsoever of Geoff Bullock and his historical contribution. My question to Hillsong, “What is your problem with Geoff ?” Why can’t Hillsong be truthful and state the “entire” History of Hillsong Music?
To those Hillsong supporters, I’m not trying to Hillsong bash but I wish that the clear truth would come out. Geoff Bullock is fully aware of the “spin” within Hillsong (moreso its leadership) as I’m sure that there are others out there aware of it too.
March 11th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
I didn’t know about the Hillsong Music website. I just feel like crawling into my little hole and crying.
March 11th, 2006 at 1:36 pm
Hi Geoff ,
My email address is frolley@hotmail.com.
I would love to hear from you
Katharine
Hillsong 1984 - 1992
March 11th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Get rid of spin,
Your point on 1 Corinthians 14 and Hillsong is, to my view, somewhat valid, but you’ve interpreted the text very immediately without delving into the issues Paul was trying to deal with. Paul was attempting to bring order to a church that was being really wacky and unhelpful. Brian encouraging people to begin speaking in tongues doesnt really violate these intentions of Paul. Paul wrote guidelines to create an orderly service, and if that part of the service was set aside for speaking in tongues, then the goal has already been achieved. It had an ordered time, goal and edification purpose.
“So could someone there at Hillsong please tell the Truth ?”
I can’t because I don’t know Brian’s finances that intimately. It’s worth investigating and I’m in the process of doing so.
” in defence of Steve, I will acknowledge that there are many decent people at Hillsong ”
Thank you, I appreciate that. There are numbers of people at Hillsong who live in greater obedience to Him than I do. I look up to these people.
“Why can’t Hillsong be truthful and state the “entire” History of Hillsong Music?”
Unfortunately, for marketing reasons, Hillsong probably doesn’t want people asking too many questions about what happenned to Geoff Bullock. It’s easier to forget about than it is to explain. Personally I think that’s very sad and unfair in regards to the contribution of Geoff Bullock. The situation has never been explained by anyone in the church, as far as my extensive knowledge of the church environment is aware. I only ever found out about the story during my time at college in the form of rumour, and not helpful rumour at that. This is a classic example of things not being all they should be at Hillsong Church.
“To those Hillsong supporters, I’m not trying to Hillsong bash but I wish that the clear truth would come out.”
This has probably been the most informed discussion of Hillsong I’ve encountered. Most people I discuss Hillsong with are wildly misinformed, but there has been a respect for truth in this discussion that I have appreciated, and I think this has been reflected in the fact that we have zeroed in on what I would consider to be all the key weaknesses of the church. This has been a useful dialogue process, I wish to continue to learn from people’s concerns and insights.
March 12th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Dear Geoff,
I’m really inspired by the way that you’ve handled yourself in all of what has taken place in the past and even the way that you went out of your way to apologise to Brian. You’ve applied the principles of grace, love, forgiveness, humility, mercy. Additionally you’ve applied lots of courage in explaining the pain and suffering that you experienced in the past along with some of the “real” truths behind Hillsong’s leadership. Singer, Jane, Steve G and others, I would also like to say thankyou for your courage to speak the truth.
Geoff, in my eyes you have nothing to apologise for. In my eyes, you are an inspiration.
I just wish that Brian would practice what I’ve heard him preach.
If Brian really is accepting and respects the differences and opinions within people, then he should be clearly applying the principles that the “father” applied to the “prodical son” when Geoff apologised him (ie: welcome him back with open arms and joy and wipe the slate clean).
Why does Brian or Hillsong leadership have such great difficulty in applying the “actions of humility” and just apologising? If Jesus sought forgiveness for the treatment he received when being crucified, why can’t this example be followed ???
As someone who goes to Hillsong, I’m clearly ashamed of the way that many people have been treated and suffered as a result of “Hillsong’s vision”. Many of you should have been treated with love, acceptance, humility, forgiveness, mercy and respect (Jesus’ Vision) but instead you received the direct opposite.
March 12th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
To all,
It may or may not interest you all but I am beginning the process of finding a new church, over the next year or so. My girlfriend of over two years and I are really enjoying our relationship and we are thinking of taking it to the next level at some not too distant point, so we’re investigating a church to attend together. She goes to a church that is similar to hillsong but lacks the weaknesses we have described above, so here church is looking the most likely at the minute. We’ve both agreed that Hillsong is not what we want in a church, even though we both like a lot of what goes on there.
It’s a little bit sad, I have many good memories of Hillsong, and much of my Christian walk was nurtured and encouraged by it.
Geoff, I support Get Rid of the Spin on this. As far as I can see it appears you have behaved admirably and have sought to do the best you could. May He bless you and encourage your heart.
P.S. Get Rid of the Spin, when you say “Steve G” do you mean me? As far as i kow I’m the only Steve here, but the letter ‘g’ is nowhere in my name….
March 12th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Dear Steve,
Really quickly… no, you are not Steve G.. that’s a very sad journey that defies any reasonable explanation, in fact it was the saddest thing I ever encountered at Hillsong, and, unfortunately, that is really saying something. It makes mine situation seem like a walk in the park by comparison.
Now, Steve, be wise here. You have proved yourself to be a man of integrity, well as much as we can possibly hope for. There are many strong emotions here that must be seen in the light of the past. Yes, there has been no resolution, but that is a personal situation, not a Hillsong one. I have my weaknesses and so does Brian and so do we all.
You came onto this site with a great sense of ‘belonging” to a vision and a community. Don’t forget that, I beg of you. Take all our questions and our hurts and apply them where you can, but do not pollute the whole work as a whole.
In other words, I would be devastated if the things that were said on this blog jave caused you to lose something that was real, sacred and precious to you.
Congratulations on your blossoming relationship. How wonderful. Can we all come to the wedding?!!!
All the best Steve,
I really admire you
March 12th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Thanks Geoff!
I’m touched by your genuine concern!
No, the discussion on this site is not the real catalyst in these decisions for me, I remain a Hillsong advocate. There are plenty of other things going on, the biggest being my relationship with my girlfriend, but also my direct cell leader, a man I deeply respect, has moved to the United States last week to take part in a ministry there. My connections and involvements with Hillsong in a direct capacity have been in decline for some time, and not at the expense of me losing anything of my walk with God, which has in many respects strengthened in recent times.
It seems like my involvement at Hillsong has been winding down for a few years now, so that the last two of my six years have really seen me investing much more into campus ministry than Hillsong Church. There is nothing bitter or disillusioned about any of it. It feels like normal, happy healthy progression.
I am by far better off for my time in Hillsong. I still think it’s a great church with heaps to offer.
Thanks again Geoff. Appreciate it.
March 12th, 2006 at 6:33 pm
“As someone who goes to Hillsong, I’m clearly ashamed of the way that many people have been treated and suffered as a result of “Hillsong’s vision”.
If that attitude could become the cultural mindset at Hillsong, and if some ‘pastors’ at Hillsong got their hand off their dick..and put it on their heart, and pledged to start making things right with the people the church has damaged and destroyed, then I would be all for Hillsong.
But it’s entirely up to Hillsong, whether it wants to remain a multi-level marketing business, or return to its Christian roots.
Hillsong doesn’t seem to understand …that it’s just one step away from a media feeding frenzy….(intense competition between media outlets to get the latest scoop and poop on Hillsong…on the scale of a Shane Warne tabloid frenzy).
Once it gets to that stage, then Hillsong’s reputation in Australia will be mud…and people will be saying…..”you see that office building over there? That used to be the Hillsong church before they were forced to sell up.”
Hillsong, start thinking VERY VERY carefully about how you interact with the wider community.
You’ve got to start taking us with you.
March 12th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Steve,
All the best with your journey, and with your relationship mate. You are one of the good guys.
I guess, though I will have too look for another cahnnel to get answers to my questions.
March 12th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
Lionfish,
Thanks mate, I will be continuing with my line of inquiry. i’ll have more for you thursday.
March 12th, 2006 at 10:55 pm
Steve
Congrats on your relationship and best wishes for the future .
Katharine
March 12th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Hillsong Church has gone to great pains again to distance itself from the shananigans of Hillsong Emerge.
“Recent claims in the media that Hillsong Emerge, the charitable arm of Hillsong Church, had spent funding earmarked for the Indigenous community on church staff are completely unfounded and are highly defamatory.
Hillsong Emerge (a separate legal entity) not Hillsong Church was originally approached by ATSIC to establish a pilot program to develop and test a methodology for micro-enterprise development for Indigenous Australians.”
From http://www2.hillsong.com/media/default.asp?pid=898&hidetitle=yes
Yet again, I have to ask the simple question that any Bondi Beach bogan would ask.
If Hillsong Church and Hillsong Emerge are separate entities or organisations, why are all the media responses for Hillsong Emerge made on the Hillsong Church website by the Hillsong Church, instead of the Hillsong Emerge website by Hillsong Emerge?
One question I haven’t been able to answer…is…does anyone know how Citycare Redfern (which became Hillsong Emerge) came to be?
Was Citycare Redfern a Hills church initiative, or a pre-existing organisation?
March 13th, 2006 at 5:39 am
Hillsong emerge use to be called Hills Care, as Hillsong was formally known as Hills Christian life Centre. Consequently, when Brian became the senoir pastor of Christian Life Centre, it’s caring ministry, once known as City Care, came under the Hillsong Emerge branding.
City Care did not exist before the establishment of Christian Life Centre Sydney, formally Easter Suburbs Christian Life Centre, in 1997.
Hills Care was founded in the late 80’s by Hills CLC and run by Dianne Fuller, the wife of the Prinicpal of Power Ministries College, the Hills CLC Bible College, Ian Fuller. Like everything in the Hills CLC vision, it was renamed Hillsong in the late 90’s.
Hills Care, as far as I can remember, was very much Diane’s vision.
Although a seperate legal identity, Hills Care was always part of the Hills CLC conglomerate. Hills Care was regurlarly discussed by the eldership of the Day. The pastor who had the oversight of Hills Care was Michael Murphy, now senoir minister at Sutherland CLC, whatever name it is under now. When Ian and Diane Fuller were “transferred” to Bankstown CLC in the late 80’s Nelson Heather took over the day to day running of Hills Care. He was most definately under the authority of Michael Murphy.
Whilst saying that Hillsong Emerge is a seperate entity, it is dishonest to say it is seperate and independant from the overall mission and identity of Hillsong. It shares the same “brand name”.
Brian Houston is not one to let individual entities under the Hillsong banner to have independance. When I was part of the recording of the Hillsong albums he always had the final say over the “sound” of the final mix, the choice of songs, the budget, he was across eveyr facet of the Hillsong Conferences, the musicals, services, songs, messages, even what was worn on the stage. Yes, Hillsongs has grown, but, I imagine so has Brian ability to influence and have oversight of every area of Hillsong’s operations.
I cannot even begin to imagine that Brian wouldn’t have been aware of the funding applications. It is just not in his personality to let go to that extent.
Now, this is just another symptom of the current trend of ‘blame shifting’ so expertly practiced by the present government.
It is tragic that a Church, “The Body of Christ” would stoop to such lows.
It places all that is said from their pulpits under a shadow. However, when we look at the history of abuse within institutionalised Religion, spin, blame and ignorance has become part of the “Senoir Minister’s Handbook”.
March 13th, 2006 at 9:25 am
Why do we focus so much of our attention on the things that just dont seem right when the things that are good go by unnoticed?
A: That is a good point!
Hillsong have so many programs set up for victims of abuse to unplanned pregnancies.
A: Really? Where are they? It is one thing to talk about it, but I seriously doubt it, the easy way to prove this is show us the people that have been helped by this, what are their names, where do they live, why do Hillsong testimonies always refer to a lady, or an edlerly man, give these people names and identities, if it is true it is easy to verify.
And why do people think that just because Hillsong is a Church, they should not have money?? Should they be poor? That’s ridiculous. It’s not money that’s evil, its the person behind it.
A: Wrong, no one thinks they should be poor. Money or the person is neither evil, what the Bible clearly states is “the love of money is the root of all evil”. Hillsong cleary loves money. The whole thing is designed to make money, this is NOT Gods purpose for the church.
Brian and Bobbie may have some nice things, but why shouldn’t they? I think they deserve it.
Everyone is entitled to nice things, that is not the problem, the problem is how you acquire the wealth. if they worked hard in legit jobs and made money thats fine. However they are making themselves rich by convincing their congregation to give, give, give, that by financially giving, you get Gods blessings. This is called robbing the gullible.
They refer to wealth as Gods blessing. That is NOT what the bible says. Therefore they are NOT teaching the bible. Jesus NEVER spoke like that. In fact in the gospels whenever Jesus does talk about money he is always warning of the dangers
Just remember this, Brian has given more money some years to the Church then it has given him!
A: Crap, prove it? If he really believed what he was saying, then logically he would be throwing mney at the congregation, because the more you give the more God gives you is what they teach, so taken to its logical conclusion, he wuold be giveing money away - this is not happening
JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE CHURCH LEADERS DOESNT MEAN THEY SHOULD BE POOR, what could they do with no money?
A: The poor widow in the bible gave 2 copper coins. Jesus praised her and condemned the Pharisses, who gave more money. Guess what, 2 copper coins can’t do much. But she gave more than the others. Why? Because she gave with love. So the question is not what can you do without money. The question is what can you do without love.
This is the shallowest comment in your post and shows a clear immaturity in spiritual matters. First the bible says, “What profit if you gain the world, but lose your soul”? Our first goal is to realise we are not on earth forever. Jesus said “DO NOT STORE YOUR TREASURES ON EARTH”. but focus on heavenly treasure, where thieves cannot steal it and rust cannot destroy it. For where you heart is, so will your treasure be.
What can you do without money? 1.Share the gospel 2.Love others as you love yourself. 3.Forgive others, forgive yourself. 3.Be a friend 4.Be a shoulder to cry on 5.Be a good listener. 6.Help someone clean their house 7.Mow on elderly persons lawn…..the list is endless
Jesus achieved more than Hillsong ever will without money. Jesus had the ability to be rich but chose NOT to be. Money could add nothing to the value he had in himself. He knew where he came from, he knew where he was going. What could money possibley add to his life, when he came from heaven? The most glorious place ever.
Apostles, Paul, Peter what did they achieve without money? They imparted wisdom, and built the church. The church is not a building and flashing lights, it is people, build relationships, with others and with God.
Suddenly in this age you think God needs a hand, with marketing? Bible clearly says if Jesus is raised up, he will draw men/women to him.
Not Hillsong, Bobbie or any1 else.
So you have some facts, now the choice is really yours
model your life after Jesus or after Hillsong.
As for me, I will follow Christ, my relationship is with Christ.
March 13th, 2006 at 10:52 am
To Nick;
“Really? Where are they?”
The Mercy Ministries girls take up a section of their own of the evening services. They are highlighted from time to time. I know some of the leaders in this ministry. It is real.
“Hillsong cleary loves money. The whole thing is designed to make money”
Sounds like a judgement to me. Would you like to substantiate that please?
“Apostles, Paul, Peter what did they achieve without money? They imparted wisdom, and built the church.”
I disagree. the New Testament clearly regards them raising funds to do the work of building the church. But you have a point, for they were doing God’s work when they had no funds at all. I like your points where you describe what can be done without money.
“So you have some facts, now the choice is really yours
model your life after Jesus or after Hillsong.”
Well, as a Hillsongite, I choose to model my life after Jesus. It is entirely possible to do this. You infer here that Hillsongism is the antithesis of genuine Christianity, but I would argue putting any denominational slant before genuinely following Jesus is the antithesis of Christianity. Hillsong is just one possible way to do this. Be very careful in judging churches. It is not safe ground, and is to be done very sensitively.
March 13th, 2006 at 2:41 pm
Geoff, thank you for the detailed account on Hillscare/Citycare/HillsongEmerge.
It’s reminded me that churches are largely successful in ministry (real ministry, not fund-raising) based on the giftings of their leaders.
And it only takes one key staff member to move or be moved, and the thing falls in a heap.
Churchlands Christian Fellowship had a wonderful post-service prayer ministry thing going..under Marianne Fox.
The church was humming, but when she moved on ..or was moved on…it exposed the complete cluelessness of the leadership in that area…as they had no way of knowing how to minister in praying with people..and people started leaving the church by the hundreds.
It’s always funny watching Phil Baker praying with someone, because he sits down with them….prays with them for 2 mins max, and thengets bored and pisses off while they’re still deep in prayer, and the prayee eventually looks up…and is mystified where the pastor has gone.
That’s a very common trait of pastors in contemporary churches, as if praying with people is ‘beneath them’.
Now, we know that Brian Houston is not a warm and fuzzy touchy/feely people guy…..so if he feels he would need to control areas where he is clearly not gifted or able, then that is extremely poor leadership on his part.
Using fear and intimidation is also very bad leadership.
A good leader will find the right people for the job, and just let them do their job, without being micro-managed.
March 13th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Lance,
“Using fear and intimidation is also very bad leadership”
The New and Old Testament makes it clear that we need to fear God, as well as the authorities instituted above us (Romans 12- uses the word fear). It is typical of Australian irreverence to despise leadership, we have much to learn from Asia in this regard.
I do agree that churches more or less rise and fall on leadership and giftings. That is a valuable point. How badly the church needs good leaders! Who will help in the harvest? Do you feel the call to work for God?
March 13th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Steve Jesus says the leader is to be the servant of all. And says that when we see the way the world leads by imposing their will over people we are not to lead that way. Sounds like Jesus agrees with the aussie attitude of egalitarianism
the rev
March 13th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
i agree with your quote of Jesus, of course. but He also said fear Him who after destroying the body, can throw you into hell. yes, i tell you fear Him.
No very egalitarian is it?
March 13th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
“The New and Old Testament makes it clear that we need to fear God, as well as the authorities instituted above us.
Brian Houston is not God, and is not an authority instituted above us.
He is (theoretically) your brother in Christ.
Please don’t mis-use the bible to promote Hillsong bullshit.
March 13th, 2006 at 9:32 pm
Lance,
‘Brian Houston is not God, and is not an authority instituted above us.’
He’s not God? Don’t say that or my world view will collapse. (j/k)
He is not an authority instituted over YOU, correct. If, however, one submits themselves to hillsong church, he is then the authority instituted over them. of course there are limits to this authority, but on church matters, he is the authority. If you are in the choir and he says ‘jump during song 2′ then it is appropriate to jump in song 2. If he says ‘give up all your evenings and come to guitar practice’ it is easy to make a case that he has overstepped his authority. All things in balance. But tehre is a sense, at certain times and places for those in hillsong Church, when he is the authority instituted above us.
‘Please don’t mis-use the bible to promote Hillsong bullshit.’
My quotes did not intend to refer to Hillsong or its practices. You have jumped to a conclusion. I was speaking more broadly on my views of authority.
March 13th, 2006 at 9:55 pm
Steve,
Jesus washed his disciples feet. Do you know what that means in a time of open sandals? Of walking great distance over dirt roads? In a time without urinals? This was a job that even a slave was allowed to resist if he was a Roman citizen because it was the lowest of lows, and unworthy of any citizen of Rome. And said, “I do this to show you that I as your Lord serve you, so you should serve each other” Does this charectorize the leadership in the Pentecostal church in Australia, or specifically Hillsong?
How does driving around in luxury cars, flying first class, owning multiple expensive homes, and basically my way or the highway leadership mentality reflect Jesus? And if it does not reflect Jesus, why are they leaders? Worldly leaders do these things, but the church is supposed to be different, the first should be last, the greatest should be the servant of all.
the rev
March 13th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Hey - Watchout Jesus Claus Churches…It looks as though the real Rev is finally back!
Your comment is on the money Rev.
Steve you are still young. Do a google search on the ‘Shepherding Movement’ and see what it is about and how much damage it can do.
The way that the Contemprary Churches are behaving (and amplified in the testimonies of people like Geoff and Jane) as well as some recent comments about ’submission’ to the Super Pastor (as December termed it) and his vision on PB’s site - shows that the movement is apparently not completely dead.
March 14th, 2006 at 11:18 am
To the rev,
my leaders in Hillsong were indeed servants. they would surrender much time, energy, and believe it or not, money, to invest in us, and did not personally expect anything in return. I am not speaking of the highest level pastors, but I see that the same culture comes does come from the highest levels.
Lionfish…will read about that sometime soon….
March 14th, 2006 at 11:29 am
Lionfish,
Oh I remember the Shepherding Movement! It was that over-zealous application of discipleship principles that led to a lot of abuse several decades ago!
Aren’t you a bit concerned about throwing out the baby with the bathwater? Would these experiences stop you ever submitting to the spiritual authority of others? Granted, abuse can and does continue to occur under the guise of spiritual authority, thus is the call for brains. Personally, this is one of my biggest complaints with Hillsong, the sense of heirarchy and not much of a sense of collegiality (or perhaps egalitarianism). I guess what I’m saying here is that I recognise your concerns, and whilst I’m cautious not to swing into an anti-authority extreme, I wish to acknowledge that they are, I think, well founded.
March 14th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
If you believe in spiritual authority in the church Steve, would you therefore submit to the spiritual authority of ……say…………Dan and Phil? ….(two great guys I hear).
Or if the leader of another church told you that you were in a cult, and you needed to get out….would you acknowledge their spiritual authority?
March 14th, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Or the General Secretary of the World Council of Churches Samuel Kobia, who’s criticised Hillsong-style megachurches as promoting a form of Christianity that is ‘two miles long and one inch deep’.
Does Samuel Kobia have any ’spiritual authority’ over you?
Or is it only narcissistic Kiwis who can’t control their temper…..who bully and intimidate entire congregations, and who pepper their language with lots of ‘aymens’ and ‘hallelujahs’ and ‘praise the lords’ ….who deserve to have ’spiritual authority’ over you?
You’re being very selective Steve with your warped concept of ’spiritual authority’.
March 15th, 2006 at 9:30 am
Lance,
Actually, no its quite simple.
I’m in Hillsong church.
Brian is the pastor.
I’m under his spiritual authority.
…does that make sense?
March 15th, 2006 at 9:43 am
Lance,
My ‘warped concept’ of spiritual authority suggests that for local congregational matters, I am under the authority of the local congregational leader. This is clearly bonkers.
And also, I listen to global spiritual leaders, such as Samuel Kobia, and weigh up what they say. This is clearly nuts.
Also, I will listen to people such as Dan and Phil, who are great guys, because I respect their advice and opinion. This clearly makes me insane.
I have thus proved that my view on spiritual authority is not only wapred, but akin to the antiChrist. If you don’t shut down my views quickly, I will rapidly overtake the world with drones spitting out hallelujahs and aymens. And they just might be Kiwis too.