Hillsong on ABC’s Australian Story
Garth gives a heads up to something that might be worth a watch – Hillsong on ABC’s Australian Story
In the Australian today…An ABC TV Australian story will air next Monday night figuring Brian and Bobby Houston pastors from Hillsong. It promises to be an insight into their lives, their home and their church.
March 15th, 2006 at 9:37 pm
Katherine, your thread has been created. You can’t create your own thread but you can (as you have done) request Dan or I to create one.
March 15th, 2006 at 9:39 pm
“Probably because they’re struggling to explain that they can forgive the action but can’t in anyway be seen to be condoning or accepting it.”
Crap. Absolute bullshit.
If it’s pride or greed, (which are not even sins at Hillsong)…people don’t even think twice about condoning or accepting it.
Same goes for adultery….it might surprise people a bit…….but there is no way that people would be reluctant to offer their forgiveness…(unless your best friend is sleeping with your wife of course)..because they’d be worried about being seen as condoning or accepting it.
I’m not so convinced anyway that homosexuality is regarded by God as a barrier to relationship with Him….because creating that barrier relies on a particular reading of the writings of one man…Paul …in the first part of his letter to the Romans….(and a particular ignoring of the second chapter..as we know it…of that letter).
Genesis..the Sodom story, Leviticus…and the first letter to the Corinthians are all unsustainable as claimed condemnations of homosexuality….
So you’re left with Romans 1, written by a man who contradicts Jesus in various parts of his writings….and your own personal gut reaction against homosexuality…as the basis for your declaring it as a barrier to relationship with God.
And yet you’re quite happy to acknowledge the sinful actions of Hillsong….but are steadfast in your belief that nothing needs to be done about them.
And you wonder why people aren’t taking Hillsong seriously.
And the challenge remains, if you’re SO CONFIDENT….of the heart of Christians towards gay people…..tell them you’re gay.
Wouldn’t you be overwhelmed by the love of fellow Christians……in your home group, in the Hillsong worship teams……and from the leadership?
What would you have to fear?
I can email a few Hillsongers if you like…..tell them Steve is gay…..and give them the opportunity to wrap their ‘arms of love’ around you.
March 16th, 2006 at 12:01 am
Where do I mail this cat too??
March 16th, 2006 at 5:02 am
Lance, you would be amazed at how many pastors, churches and truly spiritual people would totally stand beside you, affirming you, and seeing absolutely no reason to see you as anyone else but a fellow child of God. I for one am more than happy to confess that I stand with you, shoulder to shoulder, head held high, no shame, no hesitational. Please my friend, forget those who oppose you. they will aloways oppose. They oppose my “adultery”, they oppose the worst sin of all, “Not attending church”, actually, that’s not the worst sin, “not tithing AND giving” is. That’s why they run endless TV programs of themselves preaching! Anyway, I digress. Lance, you are forgiven because God is forgiving. For goodness sake, what’s the difference between your sexuality and mine? Howls of protest from the biblical right, but I just don’t care. The saddest thying that has happened to you is that well-meaning moral messengers have stolen your soul with their lies. Don’t let your heart listen to them. Love yourself, accept God’s forgiveness for them, hear his cry for you, Father forgive these children stricken with their blind bigotry, forgive them for the violence that they have done to my brother Lance. Now, to all those who want to raise some scriptual mumbojumbo, let me say that I am not going to debate this. This is what I believe and I would appreciate that your would not belive in your doctrinal and spiritual superiority. You do not need to run defend the morality of the universe. Do not try and steal the sacredness of my hope and trust.
March 16th, 2006 at 10:17 am
Lance, I’m interested… beyond all the anger, sarcasm and insults - do you consider Jesus Christ to be your personal Lord and Saviour?
Oh, and Tony V-B now attends to Pringle’s CCC.
(long time reader, first time commenter)
March 16th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
Lance,
Last night I was talking to God (as one does) and I brought up the point above where you had called my view of spiritual authority warped. I was asking God what he thought - cos i was kinda proud of myself for exposing a very shallow and unfounded swipe.
But God wasn’t amused. In fact, He immediately showed something of His heart for You, and it moved me. It reminded me about being motivated by love. but also from Him Lance, I believe He is aching to know you better. I think He has a massive heart for you, and the way He reacted it seems as though something has got you sad in your relationship with Him and He is very sad about it. I don’t know what it is. But i want to extend something of God’s heart and say He is really wanting to genuinely walk closer with you in honesty and truth.
March 16th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
“Oh, and Tony V-B now attends to Pringle’s CCC.”
That’s really scary and disappointing.
I wonder why he left Hillsong, because he made a point of saying he was at Hillsong to change attitudes there to gay people….and that was only a couple of months ago he was saying that.
Phil Pringle said he’d spent a lot of time with Pat Mesiti on his ‘restoration’…so I’m wondering if Anthony hit the same brick wall at Hillsong that every gay person does…because of Brian and the staff’s complete lack of ministry skills…that’s common-place in AOG churches…and Pringle listens more……because he’s had recent experience with ‘restoring’ Pat Mesiti.
I’ll just ask Tony through his website.
March 16th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Well as a reasonably new reader (2 months) but multiple poster (bordering on if not totally leaping over the point of addiction!) I have to say that I am 100% insupport of Lance. I am also one who would proudly strand shoulder to shoulder with you (but I’d watch my back becuase I am very attractive.
LOL). Gods loves and accepts us ALL.
March 16th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
because of Brian and the staff’s complete lack of ministry skills…that’s common-place in AOG churches…and Pringle listens more……because he’s had recent experience with ‘restoring’ Pat Mesiti.
So I put it out there - how does a church develop listening and ministry skills - by that I mean working with other people, listening to people from the congregation , counselling etc .
March 16th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
Steve…remember “TODAY” is “ANSWERS DAY”…
March 16th, 2006 at 3:29 pm
Lance
As per Geoff and Greg….me too!
March 16th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
I just did a google search on the resoration of Pat Mesiti - and found someone selling the dvd of the service on ebay - this is soooo soooo funny!
http://cgi.ebay.com/PAT-MESITI-CHRISTIAN-CITY-CHURCH-SUNDAY-19-2-06_W0QQitemZ7009810993QQcategoryZ92506QQcmdZViewItem
March 16th, 2006 at 5:03 pm
I watched Pat’s ‘first preach’ for free online the other night on the CCC website…go figure!
March 17th, 2006 at 3:35 am
Has anyone thought about why Pat Mesiti’s restoration and come back has been engineered within one of the largest networked Churches within Australia and why he will not be ‘labouring’ within a small humble local suburban church? Any thoughts?
March 17th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
Hi Lionfish, sorry, been busy lately for following that stuff up I’m afraid, might have another crack at it on Monday. To be honest I’m not surprised no one has called me back though…it seems to be the way of things….
March 17th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
Just wondering if anyone watched the “Today Tonight” programme?
What did it say?
March 17th, 2006 at 1:16 pm
Pat Mesiti is back? I remember when he first started in a little Italian church in Punchbowl, many years ago. I met my now wife there, and was at a Youth night (Friday nights in those days). I was with 2 friends we had a band (christian one) in the early 80’s we had long hair. So he spent his entire sermon about the evils of long hair, needless to say we were the only ones with long hair———–
March 17th, 2006 at 7:18 pm
Living in SA I only heard about the Hillsong story when a friend called and told me about the segment last night in channel sevens Today Tonight. I was quite shocked and to be honest I see what they did with the money as fraud and think the people involved should be charged. As the Leader of Hillsong Brian should be overseeing all the activities of his leaders and controlling the spending of money, especially Govt donated money. It’s embarressing when such big name churches are involved in bringing the whole church name into disrepute. Hillsong is a huge church and must generate massing incomes for its Hillsong event each year and its national number one selling album every year, so i was surprised that theyd even need to ask for Govt grants…. lets hope this is cleaned up quickly and charges layed against anyone involved with the fraudulent use of this grant.
March 17th, 2006 at 9:51 pm
Hi Randy,
I appreciate your views. I didn’t see the program, so I can’t comment on that. But FYI, Hillsong’s annual Hillsong Conference does not raise revenue for the church. It costs them millions of dollars to hire the Sydney Superdome and the fees charged to applicants does not cover this price. Each year they rely on extra giving in the offerings to cover the expenses.
Also, most of the money from Hillsong music goes to individual song writers. I cannot speak for all of the money, some of it would surely go to Hillsong Music Australia. regardless, hiring the Sydney Entertainment Centre each year is also an expensive exercise.
Hillsong is also paying off a buildings worth over 30 million dollars, and looking for sites to build more.
They have a substantial income, but substantial expenditure too. They could certainly find uses in their programs for government grants.
March 17th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
like paying for their pastors with money designated for local business creation?
the rev
March 17th, 2006 at 11:16 pm
Hehe. Grants couldn’t pay for pastors wages cos they’re unreliable.
Being a pastor, even at Hillsong, ain’t a mega money career.
March 17th, 2006 at 11:35 pm
So far no smoking-gun evidence has been presented regarding Hillsong. Look folks, please don’t hold out. If you’ve got some cold hard facts tell us all.
March 17th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Hi Steve,
The conferences would generate comfortable revenues for visting Pastors on the speaking circuit. Joyce Meyer and others are at the top-of-the lucrative pentecostal speaking circuit food chain.
Of-course the speaking pastors scratch-each others-backs and will get a reciprical invite to other mega-church conferences around the globe. Don’t forget LMI a tax effective ministry turned over $1.3M and paid undisclosed wages to four employees and aslo paid the mortages on the comfortable properties purchesed by the Houstons.
When the HS music team releases an album at the conference and it goes to no 1 that week on the arai charts - then there is another source of revenue. lets not mention the sales of books and merchandise that contributes to the visiting speakers coffers.
I suggest you stop advocating the integrity of HS until you provide me with answers to my questions.
March 17th, 2006 at 11:55 pm
Lionfish,
Guilty to proven innocent? You must have seen some nasty stuff in the accounting world. Still, a healthy dose of skepticism never killed….trees.
March 18th, 2006 at 12:04 am
No - rather three strikes and they are out!.
We have aksed for answers to reasonable answers and HS and its associates have only responded with ambiguous rhetoric and spin and have shutdown communications.
Yes I have have seen some dodgy stuff - and I have been looking into the WOF Business model/religion for eight months - and I have seen nothing so subtle, so deceptive in my life.
just get the answers that we are after such as Brian Houstons contradictory media statements.
If you are on skype - email me and we can have a chat!
March 18th, 2006 at 12:50 am
I was at HS conference in 2004. Joyce Meyer was a key note speaker. It cost her $74,000 to fly her private jet to Aust. On top of that Hillsong payed a large figure that not only covered the transport costs, but also payed her wages.
Joyce Meyer was so blessed by HS conference, she returned every single cent of the money. The transport cost came from her own pocket and she received no speakers fee. She also said that she would like to come back the following year, not as a speaker but as a delegate.
That seems like integrity to me.
March 18th, 2006 at 2:56 am
“She has taken her “prosperity through faith” message to millions. If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid,” Meyer told an audience in Detroit in September.
“I’m living now in my reward.”
———————————-
“Among the details included in the financial statements, board minutes and other documents Meyer provided to the assessor of Jefferson County in a dispute over the tax-exempt status of its headquarters property:
The ministry’s board of trustees, which is headed by Joyce Meyer, agreed to pay her a $900,000 annual salary in 2002 and 2003.
The board agreed to give her husband, Dave Meyer, the board’s vice president, an annual salary of $450,000 in each of those same two years.
The board agreed to provide the couple with free personal use of a corporate jet and luxury cars, a $2 million home where all bills are paid by the ministry and a separate $50,000-a-year housing allowance.
The ministry paid $1.475 million to buy three houses for the three Meyer children.
The board authorized Joyce and Dave Meyer to control a $790,000 fund to be used at their discretion for bonuses to “executive management.”
http://www.rickross.com/groups/meyer.html
————————————————————
Daniel -No skin of her nose – I am sure.
Did she actually return as a delegate in 2005 or as a speaker?
March 18th, 2006 at 4:00 am
Wow. you have done your research. Thats very interesting.
She actually returned as a speaker.
March 18th, 2006 at 10:12 am
Thanks Daniel,
We have done our homework.
We are normal Christians – not people who simply have an axe-to-grind, but people with some valid concerns that have taken the time to follow up loose ends.
The leaders in these Churches now refuse to speak or meet with us and answer valid questions and concerns.
Our spirituality is precious. Our finances are precious. We must be diligent to protect ourselves and others from exploitation.
March 18th, 2006 at 1:01 pm
‘We are normal Christians – not people who simply have an axe-to-grind, but people with some valid concerns that have taken the time to follow up loose ends.’
I think that’s very cool. As I’ve said before, this is the best researched group on these matters I have encountered. Most people run on heresay.
I guess the real test of whether one is simply axe-grinding or doing proper research is the methods they use. If they are antagonistic and do not engage in discussion, but rather ‘one-up-manship’, then that would be axe grinding. If they engage in discussion with a view to learn, then this is proper research.