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	<title>Comments on: christian discrimination</title>
	<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/</link>
	<description>musings from those on the journey</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  5 Dec 2008 01:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Homer Paxton</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116487</link>
		<dc:creator>Homer Paxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116487</guid>
		<description>that doesn't matter.

to put some business jargon in here.
Stay with the primary aim which is growing the kingdom.
If by chance you gaain a tax advantage so be it. If you don't tough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>to put some business jargon in here.<br />
Stay with the primary aim which is growing the kingdom.<br />
If by chance you gaain a tax advantage so be it. If you don&#8217;t tough.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116417</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116417</guid>
		<description>But Homer that doesnt answer the question of what/how is "a proven record of integrity" measured,understood,regulated?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Homer that doesnt answer the question of what/how is &#8220;a proven record of integrity&#8221; measured,understood,regulated?</p>
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		<title>By: Homer Paxton</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116353</link>
		<dc:creator>Homer Paxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116353</guid>
		<description>no Alan,
every person employed by a christan organisation MUST believe that Jesus is Lord ie he died for their sins on the cross and he physically rose from the dead.

Any other belief would and ashould eliminate people from working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no Alan,<br />
every person employed by a christan organisation MUST believe that Jesus is Lord ie he died for their sins on the cross and he physically rose from the dead.</p>
<p>Any other belief would and ashould eliminate people from working.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116302</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116302</guid>
		<description>Steve, in answer to your question, I am going to go all positivist on you and say "because it's the law, and because people who legitimately have the power to make the law have put that law in place and if it is not obeyed then there are consequences for that".

I think that your position is maintainable, but in answering why there is a law against discrimination, the answer has to be because the community elected people who decided to make that a law and have not chosen to object that it is a law, therefore indicating that it is within the boundaries of what is acceptable for society at large.

Why does individual self-interest militate in favour of anti-discrimination legislation?  Because the vast majority of Australians are a part of some sort of minority and don't want to be discriminated against.  They will therefore support anti-discrimination legisislation protecting them in particular.  They will also support anti-discrimination legislation that protects other minorities, because they acknowledge the risk that to oppose it would jeopardise their own protection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, in answer to your question, I am going to go all positivist on you and say &#8220;because it&#8217;s the law, and because people who legitimately have the power to make the law have put that law in place and if it is not obeyed then there are consequences for that&#8221;.</p>
<p>I think that your position is maintainable, but in answering why there is a law against discrimination, the answer has to be because the community elected people who decided to make that a law and have not chosen to object that it is a law, therefore indicating that it is within the boundaries of what is acceptable for society at large.</p>
<p>Why does individual self-interest militate in favour of anti-discrimination legislation?  Because the vast majority of Australians are a part of some sort of minority and don&#8217;t want to be discriminated against.  They will therefore support anti-discrimination legisislation protecting them in particular.  They will also support anti-discrimination legislation that protects other minorities, because they acknowledge the risk that to oppose it would jeopardise their own protection.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116287</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116287</guid>
		<description>Interesting Janet - but what are the marks/characteristics of "a proven reputation for integrity"? They send their tax returns in on time?Never go over 60kms?Member of the teachers union?Oppose the war in Iraq or the death penalty?How does one "prove"it and what are the processes by which the school accepts the "proof"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting Janet - but what are the marks/characteristics of &#8220;a proven reputation for integrity&#8221;? They send their tax returns in on time?Never go over 60kms?Member of the teachers union?Oppose the war in Iraq or the death penalty?How does one &#8220;prove&#8221;it and what are the processes by which the school accepts the &#8220;proof&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Janet McKinney</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116248</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet McKinney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116248</guid>
		<description>This is interesting.  I have been investigating the equal opportunities issues relating to employing Christian teachers in a Christian school.

The law is quite specific - as stated in the ruling.  The organisation must be formed "for religious purposes".  This affects Christian schools also. 

It is without doubt that part of the purpose of the Church is to help 'disadvantaged' people in society, as the COACH program does. But this is not percieved as a "religious purpose".  In fact, promotional material, constitutions etc are sometimes carfeully worded to make it obvious that these organisations are NOT a religious organisation in order to access government, and some philanthropic funding (I know - I have applied for such funding)

You can't have it both ways, word the documentation of the organisation to NOT sound like a religious organisation in order to get funding, and then try to get exemption from other laws because you ARE a religious organisation.

Our school articles clearly state that we are a religious organisation, and this has prevented us from accessing some funding.  However, we are therefore able to claim that our successful employees must have a "Demonstrated personal Christian faith and commitment, with a proven reputation for integrity".

Regards
Janet</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting.  I have been investigating the equal opportunities issues relating to employing Christian teachers in a Christian school.</p>
<p>The law is quite specific - as stated in the ruling.  The organisation must be formed &#8220;for religious purposes&#8221;.  This affects Christian schools also. </p>
<p>It is without doubt that part of the purpose of the Church is to help &#8216;disadvantaged&#8217; people in society, as the COACH program does. But this is not percieved as a &#8220;religious purpose&#8221;.  In fact, promotional material, constitutions etc are sometimes carfeully worded to make it obvious that these organisations are NOT a religious organisation in order to access government, and some philanthropic funding (I know - I have applied for such funding)</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t have it both ways, word the documentation of the organisation to NOT sound like a religious organisation in order to get funding, and then try to get exemption from other laws because you ARE a religious organisation.</p>
<p>Our school articles clearly state that we are a religious organisation, and this has prevented us from accessing some funding.  However, we are therefore able to claim that our successful employees must have a &#8220;Demonstrated personal Christian faith and commitment, with a proven reputation for integrity&#8221;.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Janet</p>
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		<title>By: Bec</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116203</link>
		<dc:creator>Bec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 01:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116203</guid>
		<description>oops - that should be CBD, not CBC.

When people find out that I'm a christian, they often respond with "Really?! You don't seem to be the kind of person who would be a Christian".  

I don't find that insulting - because whenever I ask people to unpack that statement, they say things like "well, you have really progressive politics", "you have a diverse range of friends", "you're fun to be with", "you care about the environment and social justice".  So clearly the popular view of Christians is that they're politically conservative, narrow-minded, boring, and don't care about anything much!! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops - that should be CBD, not CBC.</p>
<p>When people find out that I&#8217;m a christian, they often respond with &#8220;Really?! You don&#8217;t seem to be the kind of person who would be a Christian&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t find that insulting - because whenever I ask people to unpack that statement, they say things like &#8220;well, you have really progressive politics&#8221;, &#8220;you have a diverse range of friends&#8221;, &#8220;you&#8217;re fun to be with&#8221;, &#8220;you care about the environment and social justice&#8221;.  So clearly the popular view of Christians is that they&#8217;re politically conservative, narrow-minded, boring, and don&#8217;t care about anything much!! <img src='http://www.signposts.org.au/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: phil</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116196</link>
		<dc:creator>phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116196</guid>
		<description>That reflects our experience at Northern too. Many people come into contact with us by our compassionate ministries and some volunteer from the community to assist in running our op shop, food bank, english conversation, community lunch etc etc... and some of these are beginning to come to faith.

Very exciting! Must more than creating a holy place that only Christians can engage and work in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That reflects our experience at Northern too. Many people come into contact with us by our compassionate ministries and some volunteer from the community to assist in running our op shop, food bank, english conversation, community lunch etc etc&#8230; and some of these are beginning to come to faith.</p>
<p>Very exciting! Must more than creating a holy place that only Christians can engage and work in.</p>
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		<title>By: Bec</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116194</link>
		<dc:creator>Bec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116194</guid>
		<description>Digger I'm definitely with you.

I'm involved in an organisation that does a lot of stuff revolving around building community with people on the margins in the CBC.  Some of them are on the street, some aren't.  We've never engaged in overt evangelism, b/c we figure that the people we connect with are more exposed to overt evangelism than anyone else!

It's interesting that out of that approach, we've seen a lot of the volunteers become interested in Christianity, and a lot of the 'patrons' become interested in it or become more confident in their expression of their faith. ;)  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Digger I&#8217;m definitely with you.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m involved in an organisation that does a lot of stuff revolving around building community with people on the margins in the CBC.  Some of them are on the street, some aren&#8217;t.  We&#8217;ve never engaged in overt evangelism, b/c we figure that the people we connect with are more exposed to overt evangelism than anyone else!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting that out of that approach, we&#8217;ve seen a lot of the volunteers become interested in Christianity, and a lot of the &#8216;patrons&#8217; become interested in it or become more confident in their expression of their faith. <img src='http://www.signposts.org.au/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Homer Paxton</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116184</link>
		<dc:creator>Homer Paxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2005/11/28/christian-discrimination/#comment-116184</guid>
		<description>Digger I was only going on what was said previously.

Every christian organisation should be evangelising and that by definition can only be done by a christian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Digger I was only going on what was said previously.</p>
<p>Every christian organisation should be evangelising and that by definition can only be done by a christian.</p>
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