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Signposts is the personal website of Phil and Dan McCredden. We are involved in leadership at Northern Community.
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Recent entries
January 18th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
im hoping to come down for the mclaren talks on the wednesday and thursday, wont be at the forge gig though…
January 18th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
I will be there at Tabor for the mclaren talks.. let’s connect
January 18th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
I can kick McClaren’s ass
the rev
January 18th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
Prophet of the revolution? That sounds a little alarming. I hope the Australian counter-terrorist task force has been notified.
But seriously, what sort of revolution are we talking about? And how will it transform the citizens of Melbourne? Will we see crazed envangelicals roaming the up-market cafes and boutique pubs in trendy suburbs? Dressed in black with a penchant for quoting Satre and discussing existentialism couched in the biblical narrative?
January 18th, 2006 at 9:44 pm
Prophet of the revolution? That sounds a little alarming. I hope the Australian counter-terrorist task force has been notified.
But seriously, what sort of revolution are we talking about? And how will it transform the citizens of Melbourne? Will we see crazed envangelicals roaming the up-market cafes and boutique pubs in trendy suburbs? Dressed in black with a penchant for quoting Satre and discussing existentialism couched in the biblical narrative?
January 18th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
Looks like a poster by Stalin in commie russia
January 19th, 2006 at 7:34 am
Be alert, not alarmed, KenOath.
January 19th, 2006 at 8:10 am
KenOath, we may well see crazed post-evangelicals roaming cafes and boutique pubs in bohemian suburbs.
*hides*
January 19th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Wheeee - Does coming to Canberra mean that it could be feasible to go to Melbourne, or even Sydney, for events like this. There COULD be some good coming out of going against the trend and moving south!!!
Blessings
Janet McKinney
January 19th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
Yeah I didn’t pick the name and was not happy with it, but what do you do. I prefer to think of it as Jesus the missionary, which was what this intensive was called last year. We are looking at the incarnation, and the invitation to join Christ in this redemptive endeavor. There will be some great speakers and some great themes. I would encourage all of you to come if you are able.
the rev
January 19th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
get over it John you sook!!!!
Jesus was called a prophet WAY more than a missionary
what a minute I dont think he was EVER called a missionary in scripture,
January 20th, 2006 at 8:02 am
I think it’s hard to find a title that doesn’t sound completely…try-hard. Let’s face it - most of the time Christians, of whatever persuasion, are losing the battle as far as language goes…
January 20th, 2006 at 8:35 am
Someone is getting a beating
I wasn’t looking for a catchy title, but more a descriptive one. Most of us overlook the fact that Jesus’ goal here on earth was not only to provide our salvation, but also to enable the message to be carried as far as possible.
the rev
January 20th, 2006 at 9:00 am
Looks like a label for a bottle of Vodka.
Calling all comrades…
January 20th, 2006 at 9:18 am
You can carry a non-revolutionary message, but you can’t have a revolution without a message being spread…so, I prefer “Prophet of the Revolution” to “Missionary”…
I actually disagree that people overlook the fact that Jesus goal on earth was to enable the message to be carried as far as possible. I think people are very aware that they are to “pass on a message” - I think that what is needed is a greater awareness of the many means in which this might be done, and the skills to consider how it might best be done in a given situation (ie most Christian university groups are pretty good at going around campus and doing the “two ways to live” thing - they’re not so good at recognising that they’re might more more effective ways to communicate the Message).
January 20th, 2006 at 9:23 am
Oh - and I should say, that I think it’s Jesus as Revolutionary that’s most overlooked in Australian Christian culture. No matter where you look, it’s often difficult to see the “revolutionary” aspects of Christiantiy lived out. In fact, I regularly copped it at uni for trying to communicate to people that there was a political aspect to Jesus message - that there *was* in fact social, political and economic aspects to the gospel, and that it wasn’t just about saying the Sinner’s Prayer and getting a magical ticket into the clouds where angels sing. There’s plenty of people out there who absolutely refuse to believe that Jesus was executed as an enemy to the state (for some reason, admitting that is seen as incompatible with a belief that Jesus died for our sins…don’t ask me why…)
January 20th, 2006 at 11:51 am
I agree Jesus was a revolutionary. I agree that people know the message should be passed, but I disagree that they look to Jesus to see how. Jesus showed us how to share the gospel, by living incarnationally. This gets overlooked by the church, and always has.
What I am concerned about with the current title is that is once again sets FORGE up as bashing the church, which we are doing, but I think we should be more secretive.
the rev
January 20th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
I can’t agree with that. I don’t agree that the church has always overlooked that Jesus showed us how to share the gospel, by living incarnationally.
In my not-so humble opinion, the only thing that’s new about Forge and the emerging church movement in Australia, is that it is coining a language and a philosophy and helping people think through how they can live incarnationally in THIS time and THIS place.
I believe that there have always been plenty of Christians seeking to live incarnationally in THEIR time and THEIR place (just as there have been many who have not).
What about many Mennonites, the Melanesian Brotherhood, the Waiters Union, the Catholic Worker communities, Ploughshares…all recent, but there’s stacks throughout history…
As a really recent example, I think that the emergent conversation in Melbourne is very similar to the conversation the radical discipleship movement was having in Melbourne in the 1970s. People involved in Urban Seed (and PUCN, for that matter) have generally regarded themselves as part of the Radicial Discipleship movement, and it’s really only been during the last 2 years that we’ve become connected with the emerging church conversation…I think the values have basically been the same, but there’s been different language used to describe what we’re on about, and different individuals regarded as ‘leaders’.
Sorry to rant, but the belief that we’re on about something really special and unique is really damaging…
January 20th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
BTW, I don’t mean to say that Forge isn’t doing good and important stuff…I just think that it’s important to acknowledge that others’ are too…
January 20th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Kinda irrelevant, but perhaps someone will get the joke after reading my little rants above…
I’m currently reading a Victorian planning (as in planning law) decision that, amongst other things, describes why a monastery is NOT a “place of worship”…ROFL…
January 20th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
Bec,
I believe these other movements are always on the marins of church life. By and large the church has not had a incarnational approach to mission in the west. And even much of our overseas ministry work was marred by our cultural bias, making people western as well as Christians. I have never considered what FORGE or the emerging church scene as new, but rather the forerunners in dealing with an emerging postmodern culture. And in that there is a uniqueness, as there will be whenever dealing with any relatively new social phenom.
the rev
January 21st, 2006 at 8:50 am
Thanks for your comments Bec,
as someone working for Forge I agree it is vitally important to ensure we don’t set ourselves up as an organisation who thinks or communicates it has the exclusive truth, are more enlightened, or emerging from something, I don’t like the inference in the word emerging that we are leaving a group of old people and churches behind.
Forge is one of the organisations in Australia trying to think, dream and create an environment for innovation, pioneering servant leadership, think through missionary principles and a reflect on biblical discipleship or shared life_(John 3:22),
In fact Forge DOESN’T physically DO any of the actual missional engagement we talk about- nor should we,
It really holds some of those conversations in some forums
It sparks some of the missional energy
But is arrogant and proud to think WE, at Forge are the only ones who do this or speak about it,
I respect all the groups you listed (Waiters Union etc…), and I respect the people I work with who are all trying live out, in their various faith communities, what we hold to at Forge,
But again Forge in one network,
So again Bec
Thanks for your comments
January 21st, 2006 at 12:06 pm
Actually as the one who designed the flyer, I do think The Rev is right about Jesus the missionary. He was a missionary long before he was a prophet. I think of texts that relate to him as ‘the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.’ He is a missionary at the level of essence. He is ’sent’ into the world to redeem it. His prophetic ministry was related to his earthly existence.
This is no small thing.
January 21st, 2006 at 12:57 pm
“The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world”. This is an example of the jewish cultural relativity of the early christian tradition. This would be meaningful for a group of people who practised ritual animal sacrifice. The early new testament writers, influence by this tradition, would naturally try and extend it into christianity.
In Melbourne today, I don’t know of anyone who could get excited about sacrificial redemption. Sure, the story of Christ dying for our sins can be expressed in a heart-tugging way, but I think it is no longer relevant.
We need a new form of Christianity - one that is relevant and recognises the diversity of expressions of faith. One that is inclusive, not divisive like the old-fashioned christian story.
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:56 pm
KenOath, when you get to design that sucker. Please let us know how you have improved on the Gospel will you? The whole world has been trying to do that for millenia. Good luck. And when you do,perhaps I can design your flyers. I like to get hooked onto a good thing.
January 22nd, 2006 at 6:52 pm
Thanks for the refreshing sarcasm, Alan. I like a good chuckle.
I would not suggest for one moment that I have the expertise to design a new religion/faith. Look what happened to L Ron Hubbard when he did just that with scientology - he made a lot of money out of it, but went mad in the end dying a lonely drugged-up recluse.
No, I think a task as big as starting a new faith needs a group of talented people working together. People like yourself, Alan, with poster designing expertise. And people like Phil to provide a sound theoretical basis. I’d be happy to make a small contribution - maybe as treasurer.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:18 pm
I want to be the enforcer!!!!
the rev
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:07 pm
Lets do it! Kick arse team.
But seriously, its actually quite hard to improve on the religion that draws its inspiration from Jesus. Your comment did seemed to suggest that it was passe and that you’ve got a good idea on how to fix it.
Have you seen God Almighty (the movie not the deity) recently?
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:14 pm
It’s Bruce Almighty Al ya clown! And you call yourself up to date with culture!
January 23rd, 2006 at 9:17 am
digger,
took three for 34 last weekend off eight
the rev