AMWAY and the contemporary church
Lionfish, a regular commenter at signposts has doing some comparasion work in this thread with AMWAY and the contemporary church typified by Hillsongs and others. He has taken it the next step and wonders if the contemporary church is actually a heightened AMWAY program.
He writes: Imagine if
“…some slick pragmatic operators were to grab hold of and develop a much more efficient form of the Amway Business model:
1) Let’s eliminate the need for physical product. With the cost of production, logistics inventory and stock losses – services always have much higher gross margins than physical product.
2) Lets keep only those physical products that keep well, sell well such as motivational books, CD’s and resources…even better if we can sell them over the Internet!
3) Let’s fill the warehouse with an experience that appeals to their emotions….surely God must be here with those catchy tunes, jokes, good-guy-back-slappin’ and all that flattery.
4) Let’s now tell them that their upline’s are God’s anointed – and should not be questioned. We will do the thinking for them.
5) Let’s tickle their ears with swallow-follow motivational teaching that makes them feel important and that God has an amazing plan for their lives.
6) Who cares about adequate hermeneutics and exegesis – anyway that for boring old seminarian qualified Pastors that answer irrelevant questions that nobody wants to know about anymore…like salvation, the mystery of baptism, the sacraments, sin, predestination, and freewill. What good is that if it does not appear to improve their lives – right here, right now!
7) Let’s tell them that its right that they go out and work harder to double their incomes – as they will have more to give away…to Us and our House of God. Contentment is for the Lazy.
Lets twist the scriptures…just a little when it comes to money – tell them that God will bless and prosper them if they bring 10% pre-tax into the ‘House of God’ and infer that they will be robbing God if they don’t…heaping curses upon themselves.
9) If any one questions this teaching – try making them fell guilty “because lives hang in the balance over this one” and because God gave you a revelation about this.
10) Let’s tell them that this old commercial warehouse is “The House of God”…and to contribute to it is their first priority on the road to success. They can only give to World Vision and other good causes after they have brought their whole tithe to God’s House.
11) Let’s tell them that they just can’t get enough of our tapes, conferences and events – as if they do they will miss the important key’s in their life – or worse God talking to them through the anointed speakers.
12) Remember, familiarity breeds contempt, don’t get to close to a downline. Remember what happened the Wizard of Oz when Dorothy pulled back the curtain and saw the Wizard as he really is – small, fallible and equally human. Let’s use sophisticated image management techniques, spin, rhetoric to ensure that there is a mystique between the Us and those down-lines on the spiritual treadmill continuously craving narcissistic supply which you will have the power to regulate.
13) Let’s promote our own Good works and generous deeds, and those of the seriously wealthy within our community - like there is no tomorrow. To hell with what the Bible says about discretion – there is no PR value in that!
14) Let’s focus the majority of our efforts of recruiting and fundraising to ensure that we replace those leaving via the backdoor after being burned out – and manage the levels of churn to ensure continuous upward growth.
15) Build a network with other like-minded Business model…self promote, get on the lucrative Pentecostal speaking circuit to seriously supplement your income and widen the geographic distribution of your resources.
16) Remember, to protect and maintain the secrecy of the Business Model at all costs. Church is a Family affair….maintain control of the Business at all times – so that it may be passed down into the hands of your Children…and your children’s children.
17) Therefore make sure that the governance stature never becomes a democracy – but retains the appearance of a Church to capture all those wonderful tax benefits that are available…such as the ability to buy your own cars cheaply and make a profit at the end of the novated lease!.
Aren’t we all so glad that this sort of nightmare does not happen in real life! “
July 25th, 2006 at 10:27 am
It does not say to question them but to avoid them. The definition of avoid is” stay clear from; keep away from; keep out of the way of someone or something”
I wish it was that simple then if the church is preaching this as a whole then stay clear from them, but it is hard when you live in the hills district to be able to do this.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:21 pm
I FOUND IT - There is more going on here than you realize.
I like Hillsong as you know, of course I never went to it and my exposure has been a wee bit limited. BUT… when I was in Amway i noticed that…
Successful well dressed beautiful people were in the Front rows of the meetings and were instructed to shake their heads in the affirmitive when asked questions or listening to a “special” speaker - ( Oh goody gumdorps, our diamond is coming to product pick up).
The appearance of monitary blessing was as important as actually being wealthy. Some of the Diamonds I know didn’t keep much of their money that passed through their hands becasue they had to many people under them getting large pieces of the groos check. Appearnace is everything if you are trying to fool people.
This is a thing with church today - any one trying to “grow” the church and it goes way beyond Pentecostal. Everything is about IMAGE and what is real is covered up, even the good if it is not spectacular enough. It is the world system of doing business, i.e. it is worldly. I know of many non- pentecostal churches who want to appear Pentecostal becasue of the music and worship style - but they definitly don’t want the tongues. They want the money and the “influence”.
Ever notice that when one church looses a 100 members that another church gains most of them, then the church that gains declares a “revival in the house” and all they did was shift fish from one boat to another. Again, appearance is everthing.
September 3rd, 2006 at 9:34 am
Good comment Kevin.
You are now on the money, and starting to see things more clearly.
It is all manuafctured, and its all about success and influence and looking great.
September 3rd, 2006 at 12:04 pm
Lionfish - Thanks, i have seen it this way for about 7 years now. It has been a process of understanding for me. This is so hard to see because it has many angles. Not everyone is trying to decieve, some are really trying to do the right thing, it’s just that they cannot understand what the right thing looks like, because they have never seen anything else.
When we left the local AoG to start the church we decided that we did not want to manufacture, duplicate, or mimic what was happening everywhere else. Because most of it is not real, (Not God of course - He is real) - Having been in Amway 3 times I know what “fake it till you make it” is all about and it ain’t about God. he hates it when I fake it. Sometimes though I can be faking it and not know that I am faking it. The biggest problem we face is that we know what we DON”T want to do we just don’t always know what we DO want to do. There is really not much of a pattern to follow.
This thing that Jesus said is perplexing to the business mind - “the wind bloweth where it will and you know not where it comes from - so is everyone that is born of the Spirit” People by and large want predictability in religion and life in general. NO surprises, just methodical day to day hum drum. Explorers and adventurers get rivers named after them - Most of us don’t like to take off into the great unknown.
Church is the great unknown - at least I think it is. We need exploreres - people to challenge mindsets and past practises - and barometers to let the explorers know when their head is in the clouds. SP does this some. I don’t know a lot about emerging stuff, only what I read. it is not taking Indiana by storm. But I think it’s great. I like Rob Bell for his outlook and ability to question things - some.
So as we walk away from this, ( present day worldly minded church) the question becomes “what are we walking to” it’s one thing to come out of Egypt, but a whole different issue to come into the promised land.
How do we gwet people to identify with what is real, if you do not “dress for success” in the church world. They don’t know what to look for either. It’s like John the baptist (with honey in the beard, goatskin pants image) vs the Pharisee’s - ( we got going on baby - check out my new Lexus success image)
Peope identify with the success image church. So it becomes change us so we can change others… any way i ramble on and on. I really look for solutions though, identifying problems is easy.
September 3rd, 2006 at 3:09 pm
You can’t address the problem until it is identified.
Good comment Kevin. I see it clearly too.
September 4th, 2006 at 9:11 am
LionFish,
You’re description in the thread intro is pure genius. I love it that you’re here with us!
Another thing occurred to me in the last cpl of days as well, on the subject of tertiary education - have you noticed that if you’re any other denom other than AOG / CCC, you’re church is full of youth doing external / secular uni degrees, but if you’re in a Pente you’re social standing / climbing potential depends on you’re attendance at THEIR “Bible”/Ministry Training College?
The money must remain in-house, no matter what!
And (as you’re no doubt illustrating) we also noticed that the social profile of the average Pente attendee is the same type of under-educated (or at least non-academic) highly-impressionable, highly excitable, highly ASPIRATIONAL suburban dimwit as the type that would fall for AMWAY?
I mean, these are the type of people who idolise successful business-people, sportspeople, musicians, singers & actors, they would never admire a great thinker, writer or philosopher or even a philanthropist that was not connected to their denom.
Fountain Lakes, anyone? Lookamoi! Lookamoi!
These are the same ppl i found in my suburban high school (Hell High). If you weren’t a brilliant footy player or surfer, you didn’t exist. You were never thanked for being too intellectual or thoughtful.
The same popularity game continues in to adulthood.
You know, …we never left the sandpit, but at least we’re much smarter than we were back then ;o)
September 4th, 2006 at 9:42 am
I mean, most of us, anyway……
September 9th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
[…] In the tradition of “Amway and the Contemporary Church” Comes the “Official Handbook of How to Fleece the Flock for Fun and Profit” ©2002 OAIM […]
September 10th, 2006 at 7:59 pm
I have just left a CCC church after 3 years. The music was the highlight of their services but the rest was either focused on giving or hearing the chief speak. So there would be a five minute intro to giving each week and if there was a ‘guest’speaker a five minute mini sermon at the end of the guest speaking by a church leader, quoting various texts to support a ‘love’offering. Small group was dominated by the literalist who could explain everything with a bible verse except prosperity, which would be expalined by a story about any father looking after their children. Strange that! We even had prayers for pay rises, job promotions, bequests etc which seemed out of context until the following week when a new building giving campaign was launched, a few months after moving into a new $3.5 million facility!!
September 10th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
John thanks for posting mate. I am ex CCC as well.
What CCC church r we talking here? I was at the “mothership” Oxford Falls Sydney - where were you stationed? But you are right John, the movement is smoke and mirrors and they worship a plastic sugar daddy Jesus who wants your 10% tithe as well as anything else he can possibly squeeze out of you.
Hope you stick around John
WIGGY
November 21st, 2006 at 8:47 pm
I know this is quite late to respond (like, 10 months too late), but I’m actually pretty good friends with the founders of Omegatrend…
AND I’m an ex-CCCer… I already feel like part of the family *hugs*
February 6th, 2007 at 8:23 am
[…] Further to my earlier post on Amway and the Contemporary Church. […]
August 4th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Facelift,
I have to be brief.
1) Credible sources beyond wikipedia (including CRI/Watchman etc) conect the teachings of EW Kenyon with the WoF doctrines.
2) Regardless of whether he repented or not, his influence on the movement is undeniable, as these erroneous teachings influenced and ins some cases were ‘lifted’ by Kenneth Hagin, father of the WoF as followed by Copeland, Hinn, Riverview, Houston and others.
3) The WoF movement which you advocate, is clearly erroneous - even in its present form. It is “another gospel” which bears closer resemblance to “The Secret” than it does orthodox Christianity. http://www.thesecret.tv/
4) “Heresy is often Truth taken to an extreme”. This ONE of the key reasons as to why your point of view is anaethema to the gospel. Prosperity is mentioned in the Bible - but it must be tempered with the teachings of Jesus and couched within a proper ’stewardship’ theology … Prosperity theology, as promoted by WoF teachers is dangerous and misleading teaching.
5) It do not understand how you see me changing the topic.
6) There is plenty of eveidence for the speaking circuit throughout this site. But why don’t you start looking for answers by reaesrching how your own leaders and special visiting teachers such as ‘Jesse Duplantis’ “make their money”…?