Morning news
Many of us like to discuss newspaper articles on signposts. If you send them to me (Phil) or Dan by email we will post them up so you can discuss them in their own thread.
Two pieces of news have been submitted by Lance and Jane.
Church Excommunicates 15 for Cult Membership.
THE Presbyterian Church has excommunicated all 15 elders of one of its largest Melbourne congregations because of their conduct as members of a cult known as the Fellowship.
Church chief blasts megachurches
The head of the World Council of Churches has expressed concern about the spread of megachurches around the world, such as Hillsong in Sydney, saying they could lead to a Christianity that is “two miles long and one inch deep.”
March 22nd, 2006 at 12:25 pm
Here is a fair balanced report from a christian who has been to TB Joshuas church for a week. have a read
http://bennier.tripod.com/nigeria/report.htm
March 22nd, 2006 at 12:58 pm
This was taken from Chris’ link
“We as foreign visitors were overwhelmed by the hospitality during our stay at the Synagogue, Church of all Nations. We were given free accommodation (with air-conditioning!), free meals (three times a day) and free transport from and to the airport. We also were given videos and sermon notes at the end of our visits. It didn’t cost us anything (except the cold drinks and merchandise we bought at the local shop). We were treated and served as special guests. They washed our dishes, made up our beds, cleaned the bedrooms and bathrooms - even washed some of our clothes. They gave us the best places in whatever is happening during the church services, and the privilege to dance and rejoice with the people who gave their testimonies of healing or deliverance. On the last day of our visit, we had also the special privilege to interview TB Joshua individually.
I event felt that we have been “set up” in the way that we were treated.”
Sorry Chris but not fair and balanced.
Want fair and Balanced? Go to this link
http://www.charismamag.com/a.php?ArticleID=6733
inpart:
Two years ago CFAN [Christ for all Nations – Reinhardt Bonke’s ministry] sponsored a huge outreach in Lagos that involved more than 2,000 local churches–and none of those churches endorsed Joshua, Vandenberg said.
“Every one of them said that Joshua does things that are occultic and that what he is doing is not doctrinally correct,” he added.
Although Bonnke’s organization has not condemned Joshua publicly, CFAN has adopted a firm stance and will not work with Joshua in Nigeria. Added Vandenberg: “We stand with the majority of Christians there who have denounced him. Our brothers in Nigeria are on the ground there, and they know best.”
J. Lee Grady
Read the entire link for more information.
It seems though that individual peopoe can ahve a tremendous effect, especially if we got a monolith like CCC Oxford Falls to rethink their connection with TB! Go the little guy!
March 22nd, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Go the little guy!
woohoo!!!
March 29th, 2006 at 5:02 am
I thank God for the life of T B Joshua, he is truly a man of God. I have spend 5 months in Lagos, I know the prophet very well. A team of medical experts went to Lagos to investigate the healing and found them to be true, they could not understand them but they where true. Prophet T B’ s message is solid and Word based, why would the devil encourage his members to read thru the Bible every month. His decilples are encouraged to read the Bible for 12 hours every day. Prophet T B loves the Lord Jesus with all his heart and is a very humble man. Everything that happens in The Synagogue ministry flows from his relationship with Jesus Christ. He is truly the biggest Prophet of our time. Go and find out for yourself!!!
March 29th, 2006 at 10:00 am
There are many cults that read the bible; The Branch Davidian in Wako Texas read the Bible, the followers of Jim Jones who all suicided in Guyana, an small country on South America’s northern coast read the bible. - and believe me any instructiuon to read anything for 12 hours per day sounds more like the directive of a cult leader than a follwer of Christ.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:03 am
I wish people would stop ranting on about things they know nothing about!I challenge you to actually go to a TB Joshua meeting!
I went Tuesday night, skeptical of his ministry, yet left absolutely convinced without a doubt that he is genuine - fulfilling Jesus’ call to ALL CHRISTIANS to ‘Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons’ (Matt 10:8). He preaches the Word, he worships God and attributes all miracles to God. He is a very humble man - in total submission to the leading of the Holy Spirit.
When you are an expert, when you are ministering healing and deliverence, feel free to challenge the credibility of other’s. Before that, however, I warn you that accrediting works of the holy spirit to the devil is a very dangerous exercise.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:39 am
Well even mega churches started off small. Jesus’s ministry started off small too and within 3 years it got too big that Jesus Himself needed helpers (aka His Disciples). He was crucified because His followers were many and were eager to consider Him their King - something the Pharisees and Sadduccees feared. They killed Him because His popularity was soaring and they felt they needed to put an end to His kingdom not realising that they would spearhead the Christian movement. It’s the same now a days. Some people don’t like churches helping many and rising in power (by attendance figures and generated revenue etc) so they see a need to limit it or put an end to it. History repeats itself and some things never change! All faith doesn’t grow magically - it takes time and we start at 1-inch deep before we get to 2 inches and then 10 inches etc.
I really believe that churches who are not doing a worthy job will eventually perish - the bad branches get cut off. Churches that are good grow and reach out to more and more people. Effective ministries need to be cut off from outside forces in order to keep them from getting too big (and powerful), while ineffective ministries will whither and fade away without the need of outside influences.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
Ivan…”why would the devil encourage his members to read thru the Bible every month. His decilples are encouraged to read the Bible for 12 hours every day”
Well, I’d suggest the Bible can be as harmful as a weapon, used wrongly.
And how the hell are the gonna eat, if they’re spending half their time with their head in the book.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
On the other side of the coin….many ministries in the US (check out North Carolina) have huge congregations averaging 3000 members. It’s not hidden that there are some very wealthy pastors walking around! And this is scarey. Should pastors be that rich? They drive BMWs and own mansions etc and claim to be “godly” at the same time. I side with Jesus in that we can’t serve 2 masters - God and money. So, in a way I question mega churches because I feel pastors use God in order to generate huge incomes. And the pastors get clever and crafty in making their churches bigger and bigger as they get riches and richer. There have been many TV evangelists who got mega rich from their ministries and were leading very corrupt and sinful lives (by not practicing what they were preaching). So there are two blades to this sword. I like what megachurches are doing in helping people to at least get to God on some level (if not at deeper levels). But at the same time, should pastors be getting this rich and can they serve their congregations if they can’t practice what they preach? They just pay God lip service. We are not to judge but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be observant either. God will deal with the sinful and the non-sinful….but still I wouldn’t want to go to a church where my tithes are making my pastor rich!
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:40 pm
wow this is really interesting stuff- end times for sure!! The only thing to do is keep yr eyes on the Lord- its easy to get caught up in the excitment of judging others- but I agree we must be watchful.
Those that do not have opinions of their own are unwise and will have their opinions shaped for them by others.
Be watchful.
April 5th, 2006 at 3:54 am
Kjempe kuuuul hjemmeside du har.
April 19th, 2006 at 12:36 pm
hmmm…
I have two very close friends who are in leadership at hillsong in sydney. I just dont get how they cannot see the crap that is spewing out of the preaching. Its just motivational BS. Im not a christian myself but i would call myself a follower of the teachings of Jesus….and as far as I can see the guy was not wealthy. He even says you cannot serve two masters- basically you are serving him or you are serving money. Its one or the other.
I went with my 2 mates to an easter service just last week and it was just wanky. All the leaders are like superstars and my mates were wanking on about how great Brian is. Man cant these people think for themselves?
My hillsong mates are cool guys and I can see the potential in them- I can also see a massive “train wreak” waiting to happen if Brian stuffs it up- which he will- all the big leaders do- its too much fame and success for one man to handle. He will stuff it up just like his dad and what will happen to all these people???
Sam
April 19th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
I would agree with Jimmi- you have to have an opnion otherwise you just get dragged along with everyone else.
I think hillsong does many good things in the community. I choose not to go to that church bcos its not my style.
August 14th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
A peek inside the world of the Christian Military Academy.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/13/camp.death.ap/index.html
“A 13-year-old cadet at a private military academy who died while camping at a state park refused food throughout the excursion, the father of two fellow cadets said Sunday.
Victor Jusino of Sunrise, Florida, said his sons, ages 9 and 10, told him the boy continuously threw away food after the 33 cadets arrived early Wednesday at the Back to Basics Christian Military Academy’s Training and Leadership Corps campout.”
From http://www.aukelaeagles.com
“You might be asking yourself how it is possible to teach both the Christian and Military aspects simultaneously.
Through Bible Study for our older students and Bible Verse memorization for our younger students we hope to instill a love and understanding of what our Father in Heaven expects of us. Aukela Christian Military is non-denominational and welcomes families from all religions, races and creeds.
Through our Military training we will instill self-discipline, self-respect and respect for, and understanding of, our fellow human beings.”
August 14th, 2006 at 11:15 pm
Since as some of you say, we Americans influence the church world - rest assured everybody. THIS IS NOT THE LATEST CRAZE FROM THE USA. Were still riding the TBN/christian television horse.
August 15th, 2006 at 5:39 am
A day in the life of a future schizophrenic…
Drill Seargent: GET OUT OF BED YOU GOOD FOR NOTHING BUNCH OF PIG SPIT!!
SHINE THOSE SHOES - YOU FAT BELLIED LAZY GLUTTONS!!
MAKE THOSE BEDS RIGHT - THIS AIN’T NO NEW ORLEANS WHOREHOUSE!!
GET IN LINE!!
CHEST OUT - SHOULDERS BACK - ATTENTION!
now… let us bow our heads for morning prayer and hold hands as we sing Kum By Yah!
hug your fellow soldier - comfort ye one another.
EYES RIGHT - DRY THOSE TEARS YOU BUNCH OF PANTY WAISTS!!!
SUCK IT UP PANSIES -
THIS AIN’T YOUR BACK HOME YOUTH GROUP BIBLE STUDY
YOU’RE IN THE (christian???) ARMY NOW!!
August 15th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
ROTFLMAF
September 4th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
In the contemporary church..this would be construed as gossip..but Steve Irwin is dead.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20349888-2,00.html
September 4th, 2006 at 3:31 pm
Can anyone provide me with a transcript or link to Pat Mesiti’s first (restoration?) speech at CCC, i can’t find an archive section on the CCC website to check for it.
Would love to watch it if i could, but read if all else fails.
Lance?
September 4th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
#48 it’s all over the news here in NZ too. Very sad - especially for his wife & 2 little children.
September 4th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
Phil Pringle ‘restoring’ Pat Mesiti…
Christian City Church, Oxford Falls
6pm service, Sunday February 19, 2006
(Phil Pringle) “I know a lot of you were not in this morning’s service…and I need your attention ….I need your full attention people…I need you to be looking this way ..and listening….thank you very much.
Because this morning I made an announcement …and in last night’s service..that I need to make again and .. it’s a great announcement …a very joyful announcement.
About four-and-a-half years ago …there was an evangelist in this country by the name of Pat Mesiti.
Most of you I think will know of him.. some of you may not.
He had a television program and was regularly conducting crusades ..where through..500/1500 people would come to Christ.
He was an initiator of many great youth programs, including Youth Alive here in New South Wales… and accomplished a huge number of things for the nation ..in the realm of evangelism and.. touching people’s lives with the gospel.
However, four-and-a-half years ago, Pat had a terrible, terrible tumble….a moral collapse which resulted in his marriage breaking ..and ..was a sad moment.
He was taken out of ministry…and ..stepped down.
He was an ordained minister in the Assemblies of God ..and after attempting to retrace..recover ..and after a year…it seemed it wasn’t going quite how it was anticipated.
So Brian Houston and myself..who are good friends ….I said….look…I’ll put my hand up…I’d like to ..help…and I’ve known Pat ..forever and he’s good friends with a lot of the people on this staff …and has been…..and I thought this’d be great if he came..and was in our church…and we would seek to see him standing on his feet again.
A number of years ago…I said to the Lord….’I'm so busy being a pastor….I don’t feel like I’m being a Christian.’
And…that just meant I was so busy leading and preaching ..doing all the stuff I wanted… I felt like…going and handing out pizzas to the homeless in Hyde Park ..or visiting people in old folks’ homes or reading books…or people in prison.
I’ve done all that..and used to teach in a school for handicapped children ….and …I go and visit prisons …just tell them to send up a prisoner if they didn’t have a visitor ..and I’d be there….and they didn’t know me…so.. when you get to be a pastor…you get a lot of other things going on ..
But He said to me …’no you’ve got a church full of people who can do that’……so I pray you do it man…
And He said….’no..no..no..what I want you to do is reach out to people that other people can’t reach out to..and that’s pastors …who are having troubled times…
And so…I try to do that…and there’s a few …who…I have no judgements on men and women who’ve found their life in trouble ….
Who knows what pressures they’re facing and what things they’ve gone through …but I do know they need to be recovered and restored.
And there is a pathway for that…repentence …restoration…restitution ..and making things right.
So Pat came….and I said to him…’Pat ..I want you to do several things…..one….turn up to church..’
And even with the shame and the awkwardness and the emotional difficulty of all that …I said ..’that’s what you’ve gotta do’.
Because the church is the best place you can be…rather than a counselling room ….just being in the worship…being in the local church …being involved in some ministry …of serving in the House.. all of those things are the best healing processes you will ever find yourself engaged in….because you’re forced to modify your behaviour and get things right and overcome …and all kinds of things….and relate to people…
And then just the Spirit of God working amongst us..
I believe in the power of the local church …it is the most powerful thing on Earth …to actually affect all sorts of things in people’s lives.
So Pat did that..and one year after his marriage had broke…he met a lady called Andrea ..and I was happy to participate in their marriage …three….two-and-a-half years ago …two years ago? Two years ago ….and that was a really joyful occasion.
And Pat and Andrea served in the visitors’ lounge …helping us there …and have continued to be involved… in our church over that time.
And he’s been relating to Greg French….Simon McIntyre ..Mark Kelsey and myself …over that period of time.
We’ve had times where we’ve needed to say things…or help him understand things..or whatever ..and Pat has been exemplary in all his ways of handling it.
I have tried this with a number of ministers and leaders over the years ..and I’ve got to say not without a lot of success.
It’s been unfortunate..because people find it difficult ..find it tough to recover…old steps.
But Pat has really displayed a repentent attitude ..and a commitment to a pathway ..that will bring him fully back into that way…
And the ministry team…we’ve all talked to each other…..and quite satisfied that he has fulfilled all those obligations.
The Assemblies of God asked him to do three years of restoration……it’s actually been four-and-a-half years now…that he has been out of ministry…and …as I said…we are happy that…
….So in the 10 o’clock service this morning… we laid hands on Pat and Andrea…and restored them to the ministry that God has called them to…(applause)..
In those services……well..actually…only in the 10 o’clock service….I asked Pat just to share something briefly..and he did… and so…I said…I want you to share in that service just briefly…..but what I really want you to do is preach in our church on Sunday night….
So…I want you to welcome Pat Mesiti as he comes…” (applause/cheering/Mesiti hugs Pringle)
http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/1902066pm.rm
September 4th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Cheers, Lance!
December 13th, 2006 at 11:42 pm
I was visiting the Australian Christian Broadcasters website..which asked me to take a survey.
‘Programming I like on Christian broadcasting.’
- Christian music
- Christian and secular music
- Praise and worship music
- Short inspirational talk spots
- Teaching programs
- News and current affairs
- Announcers I can relate to
- Talkback programs
- Interviews
So I marked off my preferences..and then got the poll results.
“Programming I like on Christian Broadcasting
Christian and Secular Music
32.5%
Christian Music
27.8%
Teaching programmes
11.1%
Interviews
8.7%
Praise and Worship Music
7.9%
Announcers I can relate to
4.8%
Talkback programmes
4%
Short inspirational talk spots
3.2%
News and Current Affairs
0% ”
News and current affairs 0%?
NEWS AND CURRENT AFFAIRS 0%???????
Is that why Australian Christians appear to be so wrapped up in their own little world?
January 14th, 2007 at 2:42 am
“Richard Condie, vicar of the Melbourne Anglican inner-city parish of St Jude’s Carlton, says: “We are always tapping people on the shoulder. I think there are 10 people in one of my congregations seriously thinking of going overseas to work as missionaries and a half-dozen thinking of ordination.”
He wants people who can cope with the diversity of his parish, which includes a university and a housing commission area.
“The leaders I am looking for are cross-cultural missionaries, so they understand the cross-cultural working of our own neighbourhood, leaders who are clear about what the gospel of Jesus Christ means for a broken world, and they are entrepreneurs,” Condie says. “Learn the culture and adopt the model, not the message.” He talks of the death of the attachment model of Christianity, whereby if you build a big edifice, people will come to it. “In the eastern suburbs Bible belt that is probably still right,” he says. “Others have abandoned worshipping in churches: church will be what happens in a lounge room.”
From ‘God’s middle managers calling’.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21049778-28737,00.html
January 14th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
entrepreneurs would be another way to describe apostle type people I would think. Are you saying anything with this post Lance?
January 14th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Couldn’t agree more - it seems that this is the wider church catching up with what people like Hirsch and Frost ahve been saying for some time