Comments on: Women and the emerging church http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/ musings from those on the journey Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:16:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133489 Janet Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:25:40 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133489 Can't say I'd be jumping up and down for a job in the ADF for many of the reasons you describe... it's so hard to achieve any credibility as a woman in a blokey, sexist, heirachical environment. Not for the faint hearted... and not for this little black duck thank you. But I really wanted to explore the idea of the Australian "blokey" subculture and how to do contextualised mission in that setting. We don't think of it as a subculture because it is a fairly dominant one... but I think it needs to be regarded that way, and for us to put on "missionary" hats. Can’t say I’d be jumping up and down for a job in the ADF for many of the reasons you describe… it’s so hard to achieve any credibility as a woman in a blokey, sexist, heirachical environment. Not for the faint hearted… and not for this little black duck thank you.

But I really wanted to explore the idea of the Australian “blokey” subculture and how to do contextualised mission in that setting. We don’t think of it as a subculture because it is a fairly dominant one… but I think it needs to be regarded that way, and for us to put on “missionary” hats.

]]> By: bec http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133476 bec Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:25:23 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133476 Those are very obvious dots... Those are very obvious dots…

]]> By: alan http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133475 alan Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:23:04 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133475 Janet I wonder whether or not it should be for "churched males".I've been discussing with a male army chaplain the lack of female chaplains.He tells me they're keen to recruit women but cant find them. Have you heard that argument before? The male chaplains who organise themselves dont seem to make any connection between this failure and the *250%increase in complaints of sexual abuse in the ADF *findings of the Ombudsman scathing report on how the ADF treats its young members *the devasting conclusions of the Senate inquiry into military justice *case after case of female ADF officers who have been brutalised by the ADF system(one such officer had her 2 children assaulted by another officer(male)and she was forced to resign! *8 govt inquiries over a decade which have found "glaring inadequacies"in the way the ADF administers internal discipline. Why would any women (and in fact anyone) wish to join the ADF? Men,in this case male chaplains,are bit like Vaille/Downer , they cant "join the dots"! Janet I wonder whether or not it should be for “churched males”.I’ve been discussing with a male army chaplain the lack of female chaplains.He tells me they’re keen to recruit women but cant find them.
Have you heard that argument before?
The male chaplains who organise themselves dont seem to make any connection between this failure and the
*250%increase in complaints of sexual abuse in the ADF
*findings of the Ombudsman scathing report on how the ADF treats its young members
*the devasting conclusions of the Senate inquiry into military justice
*case after case of female ADF officers who have been brutalised by the ADF system(one such officer had her 2 children assaulted by another officer(male)and she was forced to resign!
*8 govt inquiries over a decade which have found “glaring inadequacies”in the way the ADF administers internal discipline.
Why would any women (and in fact anyone) wish to join the ADF? Men,in this case male chaplains,are bit like Vaille/Downer , they cant “join the dots”!

]]> By: alan http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133425 alan Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:59:51 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133425 Was at the melbourne town hall this afternoon to hear jim wallis and the micah challenge;interested to see that all,with one exception, who asked questions,were women. Wonder as wallis talked about the challenge of the "big stuff" it was women, who saw the point,or the fact that it was women who were handing out microphones! Was at the melbourne town hall this afternoon to hear jim wallis and the micah challenge;interested to see that all,with one exception, who asked questions,were women. Wonder as wallis talked about the challenge of the “big stuff” it was women, who saw the point,or the fact that it was women who were handing out microphones!

]]> By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133367 Janet Fri, 07 Apr 2006 22:37:42 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133367 Dan's comment is interesting. May I suggest an essay question? "Developing contextualised models of church suited for "unchurched" males is a bigger challenge for the Australian church than empowering women for leadership. Discuss." Dan’s comment is interesting. May I suggest an essay question?

“Developing contextualised models of church suited for “unchurched” males is a bigger challenge for the Australian church than empowering women for leadership. Discuss.”

]]> By: Toddy http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133345 Toddy Fri, 07 Apr 2006 06:28:52 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133345 I often feel like the feminist movement was the 1st part of a necessary job. It dragged women out of the dark, and made men sit up and notice. However, a divide still exists in terms of opportunities and appreciation will not be crossed using the feminist mindset of 'c'mon girls - lets grab it'. The next phase (IMO) needs to be that of men realising they've been prats and offering the power, position and advantages up to women with no obligations, no strings. Men are still (usually) priviliged, and it will take a huge growth of heart and confidence in themselves to loosen their/our grip on it. I often feel like the feminist movement was the 1st part of a necessary job. It dragged women out of the dark, and made men sit up and notice. However, a divide still exists in terms of opportunities and appreciation will not be crossed using the feminist mindset of ‘c’mon girls - lets grab it’. The next phase (IMO) needs to be that of men realising they’ve been prats and offering the power, position and advantages up to women with no obligations, no strings.
Men are still (usually) priviliged, and it will take a huge growth of heart and confidence in themselves to loosen their/our grip on it.

]]> By: bec http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133336 bec Fri, 07 Apr 2006 04:13:59 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133336 It exists in Christian NGOs too. :) It exists in Christian NGOs too. :)

]]> By: Toddy http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133334 Toddy Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:46:42 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133334 Good point. It is catering to tradional (unbalanced) gender roles. It teaches further that 'men will speak, women will listen'. It caters further to the unbalanced approach of 'leader with charisma is better' mindset, which (usually) means that there is precious little discussion or uncertainty. Of course, life is full of uncertainty - except in churches! (or businesses with a charismatic CEO, but that link scares me even more!) Too often, I see weak male leaders leading strong decisive women because of their gender. Also, I see wise, but far more softly spoken women (and men for that matter!!) absolutely ignored because they can't excite a room full of people with a monologue. Should this model be disbanded altogether? Probably not - but we should look to flesh out various other leadership models. Does that work better Dan? Good point. It is catering to tradional (unbalanced) gender roles. It teaches further that ‘men will speak, women will listen’. It caters further to the unbalanced approach of ‘leader with charisma is better’ mindset, which (usually) means that there is precious little discussion or uncertainty. Of course, life is full of uncertainty - except in churches! (or businesses with a charismatic CEO, but that link scares me even more!)

Too often, I see weak male leaders leading strong decisive women because of their gender. Also, I see wise, but far more softly spoken women (and men for that matter!!) absolutely ignored because they can’t excite a room full of people with a monologue. Should this model be disbanded altogether? Probably not - but we should look to flesh out various other leadership models. Does that work better Dan?

]]> By: dan http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133328 dan Fri, 07 Apr 2006 02:40:07 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133328 Toddy, you say that traditional models of church are male oriented because they are about "I will speak and you will listen". To my mind, this just means that they cater for male leaders. But what about those that are doing the listening? In many traditional churches you have a disproportionately large number of men in leadership and a disproportionately large number of women in the pews. So who is the service catering for then? Toddy, you say that traditional models of church are male oriented because they are about “I will speak and you will listen”. To my mind, this just means that they cater for male leaders. But what about those that are doing the listening? In many traditional churches you have a disproportionately large number of men in leadership and a disproportionately large number of women in the pews. So who is the service catering for then?

]]> By: the rev http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133239 the rev Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:02:33 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/03/15/women-and-the-emerging-church/#comment-133239 Every church I have been involved with in the last ten years was discussion group oriented, but not everything works as well that way, sometimes you need a more lecture oriented approach. the rev Every church I have been involved with in the last ten years was discussion group oriented, but not everything works as well that way, sometimes you need a more lecture oriented approach.

the rev

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