hillsongs - the next installment
As the comments in two weeks have gone beyond 500 comments - here is the new thread..
4620 Responses to “hillsongs - the next installment”
Pages: « 1 … 139 140 141 142 143 [144] 145 146 147 148 149 … 154 »
Pages: « 1 … 139 140 141 142 143 [144] 145 146 147 148 149 … 154 »
July 27th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
I’ve been busy adding literally hundreds of hillsongers to my Critiquing Hillsong site.
One that made me laugh was John Bevere.
Worth a go, considering Darlene accepted my invite. Why not John Bevere?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
ENOUGH ROPE with Andrew Denton - ABC TV Monday 9.35pm
http://abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/default.htm
_____________________________________________________________________
NEXT EPISODE - MONDAY JULY 30
Lincoln Hall, the mountain-climber who defied science, history and belief by surviving a night on Mt Everest after he had been left for dead.
Watch Video Preview:
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/video/default.htm?program=enoughrope&pres=20070723&story=5
Georgie Parker, one of Australia’s most popular actors (7 Logies!) A woman much more complex, smart and funny than her on-screen goodness might lead you to expect.
And Tanya Levin, an insider during the explosive growth of the Hillsong church, who is now publicly calling it to account.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Should make for interesting viewing.
Tanya Levin, you are a brave woman.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Hate to break it to you emblazoned, but Darlene’s myspace page is run by her record label, In Not Of. It’s most likely some intern in Nashville doing all the adds etc.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Haha.
I know. Let me have my fun.
July 28th, 2007 at 5:10 am
Of course people are free to come and go from Signposts…but some absences of former regulars have been duly noted.
Emma Whale
Wiggy
Luke
Geoff Bullock
Phil Baker (remember Phil… you promised to get back to us about that Inside Out Ministries Inc. not-for-profit thing…in….ummm…was it 2006 or 2005?)
Nilmot
Splat
Wayne
TABY
And a few others who’ve been through the Signposts revolving door and left us for another blog.
Please note..Homer was not on that list.
Never let it be said that like church….you disappeared and no-one at Signposts noticed you’d gone.
Consider this the ‘follow you up from the out-of-date church database’ phone call.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:02 am
‘Hmm. The question arises, am i wasting my time?’
Emblazoned, that is a bloody good question. Do you think God has called you to save hillsongers from their peril?
Are you thinking about the next five years? are you going to let Hillsong control that too by causing you to still be focused on them at the expense of your own life?
Do you really think that in five years time you will have changed HS one little bit?
Are you moving on with your own life and leaving the lies of Hillsong behind?
Do you feel confident that by placing yourself at a publicly confrontational stance with Hillsong you are achieving what God has planned for your life?
I know I may be a dissenting voice with these questions, but I feel you have much more to offer the world than bothering with this tawdry sham of an organisation.
You can still be available to needy victims without ‘wasting your time’ on the front line.
If I might offer a little advice ( please forgive me ) , more as an older, well travelled and experienced HS victim, I would just raise the question of where are you going now that you are free from HS?, you could be catching up on lost years instead of the watchman role you have taken on.
I only say this because I know the mind control can reach forward into your life even though you’ve left, and the place can still rule your life and thoughts at the expense of other aspects that God actually is trying to get through with.
If you decide that this is the course you feel is your focus, then all the best to you, but I would urge you to consider a long afternoon at the some coffee bar at Bronte Beach to mull over your life course and whether or not it is a good idea, or wise, to pursue HS in a volatile and pro-active way.
Please believe me I am not into protecting HS, I hate the place, they ruined my life and stole from me, I am watching and reading a young man who has a lot to offer, you are worth more than they.
This is kind of like a letter, but I feel strongly that HS or CSC and the like are not worth the energy required to call them to answer, they will not respond to any threats or cries of ‘unfair’, it will only be financial or sexual drama which gets them into the wider arena, so just wait and see, it will happen.
I have found that God is my vindicator, I have a great life now that I have moved on from my anger and humiliation and entered into (gr8 pente phrase) a time of freedom from the seductive but false teaching of brian houston et al. Life is fantastic when you don’t go to church or have to front up at 7 to rehearse 3 chord wonders or listen to bullshit from wanker preachers like phil dooooley, donna crouch or brian or any other career christian.
To discover that life without these arseoles is like being 17 again is incredible and really exiting, and I don’t mean the exitement of first nite at Hillsong conference, I mean the exitement of being in God’s hand and laughing out loud at the wonder of creation, the secure feeling of knowing that a simple day at work is in his plan and thoughts for me. It’s like being a child again for me and I cannot think of a word to describe how I feel every day knowing that those pricks aren’t getting any of my time or money or love or care or admiration or awe or submission or, well, life.
Sorry to Lfish, reve or Lance or any other of you warriors, but are they really worth it? At what point does one say, enough, I have a life and it is important to sow into it rather than dwell in those blue pools of regret and pity. Those comfortably rich arseholes have had enough of me, they aren’t worth the bog paper I use in a day, let alone a life time.
July 28th, 2007 at 8:41 am
only musing out loud, but even looking at my own post I feel bad that I’ve written, ‘experienced HS victim’. Because victim is a powerful word from houston-preach. He would always say ‘ don’t have a victim mentality’ thus making anyone who was a victim ‘wrong’.
It is wrong to be a victim?, you should not feel victimised: but what if you actually were victimised? It does happen…
As an ex-hillsong person you spend a lot of time analyzing yourself because the feelings you had were always taught to be wrong or lower-christianess. Of course this creates the conflict between your sense of self awareness and the christian model presented. That is why I almost feel guilty at calling myself a HS victim, Of course the courts have no trouble distinguishing a victim, because they might have a scar you can see or a depleted bank balance, or even be dead. But this victim knows that even calling himself a victim is a crime in that place, and you certainly can’t see the scars by looking at my face.
July 28th, 2007 at 10:06 am
BRAVO!! You survivor you.
May the TRUE riches and blessings that come directly from Christ to those He loves overwhelm you Ifiknewthen.
July 28th, 2007 at 10:43 am
wow! that’s pretty amazing, and to all of those who struggle to regain their identity and sense of worth and place in this world.
I don’t get someone say those kind of things to me everyday!
July 28th, 2007 at 11:23 am
ifiknewwhen… absolutely loved what you had to say. I’ve been out of CCC for over a year and a half now, and I feel I’m starting to realize that. It really is being like 17 again. The freedom I have to love God and be loved by God is awesome. The feeling of not having to be perfect to be appreciated by others has taken such a huge burden off my life. Thank you for writing what you did (even though it was meant for Emblazoned). It really is nice to be able to communicate with God’s other children, without having to justify who I am.
And Lance, good on you for that follow-up call. I noticed they had disappeared, But I would like to think this is a place you can freely come and go and be welcomed.
July 28th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Ifiknewwhen, great post! agree 100% with you.
This is why my commenting here is very sporadic. It’s why i didn’t go to their bullshit conference this year to let everyone know what crap they were sprouting this year.
A wise man told me something years ago.
I was an angry young teeneager who had broken up with a girl. I really wanted to make her life hell! Make her pay for my poor broken heart. You see It is easy to turn love into hate. It is passion but just in another direction.
The wise man told me something that I will never forget:
“Women love to be loved. But they would prefer to be hated than ignored.”
Ignoring a woman is the greatest way to hurt a woman! It says, “you mean nothing to me and you never did.”
July 28th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
IfIknewthen,
your post was very good and your words very meaningful. I will process further what you are saying.
July 28th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
“Ignoring a woman is the greatest way to hurt a woman! It says, “you mean nothing to me and you never did.”
I think ending a relationship with a woman..and going out with another guy is much more effective.
July 28th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Still in ‘maintenance mode’.
https://blog.hillsong.com/
July 28th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Unfortunately, ignoring an institution doesn’t hurt this institution as much as a girl is hurt by ignoring her. The institution usually would prefer that you go away and never come back.
I thought I might offer a few perspectives as a fellow whistle-blower. I think that what IfIknewthen has some extremely worthwhile points to make. Being involved in a campaign such as this can be an incredibly draining experience, both spiritually and emotionally, so you need to know that what you are doing is truly worthwhile. I wouldn’t rule out the idea just yet - some causes are truly worth fighting for. However, I think these are a few questions that you need to ask yourself:
(1) Why am I doing this? Revenge? A desire to see the movement reformed? A desire to help victims or warn potential victims?
(2) How am I nurturing my spirituality independently of the movement? Or is my spirituality being primarily fuelled by my campaign against this movement?
(3) What is my plan? How am I going to attain what I am setting out to achieve?
Just for the record, I have chosen to continue the fight after counting the cost. I believe that it is worth it, even though there are times when progress has seemed fairly slow and the fact that my name is now mud among a fairly significant and powerful community. There have even been concerted attempts to silence me. This isn’t the place to mention the object of my fight, but if one was so inclined, they could probably put two and two together by visiting my blog. For the most part I have chosen to make my message positive, but from time to time I feel it necessary to make aptly timed criticisms.
Anyway, whatever you decide to do Emblazoned, may God bless your cause and safeguard your faith.
July 28th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I think in the Christian world we are allies of convenience, Mr Castor. Your three points are good and I am comfortable with my standing in the light of those questions.
I shall continue, but I must be careful. Thank you all.
July 28th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
I haven’t been around for a while, but I do check in form time to time. I understand what you mean, ifiknewthen, about freedom…, being free is something that cost Jesus everything, when we try and stick the Gospel back into a book or a church we end up holding everyone captive. I’ll try and keep up with the discussions more, you guys write so much, it requires so much reading!!!
By the way.. Hello Lance and Lionfish..hope you guys are well.
ifiknewthen.. please contact me through my website. i would love to get together with you.
July 28th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
ifiknewthen.. the email link from my website doesn’t work… grrr.. try geoffbullock@bigpond.com
July 28th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
“Hello Lance and Lionfish..hope you guys are well.”
We’re having fun keeping the bastards [slightly less dishonest] in Perth.
July 28th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
So, how do you deal with a potentially damaging TV interview and book coming out? Looks like Hillsong are ready for the counter publicity campaign and they are waving the head of another celeb around to show they are still hip and groovy.
Yes folks, come to hillsong and you can sit in the row behind Kate Fisher, can I hear an Amen?
Hell, if more celebs in your business model (I mean church) meant more truth in your preaching then scientology would be winning (go Xenu!).
____________________________________________________________
“The poster adorning shopping malls across suburban Sydney showing the perennial party girl Katie Fischer knitting seems incongruous given her reputation for painting the town red. But James Packer’s former fiancee admits she is a changed woman, or rather the socialite who found God.
For months Sydney’s cocktail circuit has been intrigued by gossip that Fischer had joined the congregation of Hillsong Church. From her Los Angeles home this week she said joining the hand-clappers had been “the best thing I’ve ever done”.
“I’m a proud parishioner. I love going there,” Fischer, the daughter of the Liberal MP Pru Goward said, initially reluctant to talk but later enthusing about the merits of Hillsong. “I did have a different view of Hillsong before I went there, like a lot of people do, and that’s regrettable. There is so much that I got out of it, I never really saw Christianity embodied the way it has been at Hillsong.” Having just returned from a convention conducted by the US celebrity evangelist Joyce Meyer, Fischer - who had previously immersed her self in meditation and studied with new-age gurus - said she had not spoken about her faith in detail because she did not want to “come across flippant”.
“Everyone knows I like to make fun comments and be cavalier and glib. While I want to keep my fun nature, I don’t represent the church. I don’t work for them, I don’t do PR for them and they haven’t asked me to. I’m just a parishioner.
“I publicly explored a lot of different belief systems and I don’t want to look like I’m being superficial about this. There was a void in my life and it has been filled … I didn’t have a lot of discipline for a long time. The paradox is the discipline has now given me a lot more freedom.” ”
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/private-sydney/2007/07/27/1185339252789.html
July 28th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
I have read Tanya’s book - please feel free to ask any questions .
July 28th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
I’ll ask the obvious. What did you think?
July 28th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
I’m a hillsonger and I’ve been thinking about leaving for quite a while. Now, I’m attending one of the extension services, whereby everyone knows me and would make it extra difficult for me to leave just like that. Also, i dreaded having to give a reason for my leaving as this would only unsettle some of the people in the church, in addition to getting labelled a “traitor” at worst. Fortunately i’ve not taken much of the leadership roles but still, leaving my really close friends behind is something i don’t have the courage to do. I’m sure other hillsongers who are reading signposts may have the same issue. I’ve been thinking about going to a new church but I wonder whether you guys have advice or suggestion to help me get through this transition? Tanya mentioned about a support system for the hillsong church leavers but for a critical thinking hillsonger like me who has taken a while to settle down, the prospect of losing everything is very depressing. I love the people there but don’t agree with some of the teachings. Have been praying hard, and this new book is sort of the impetus for me to move on.
July 29th, 2007 at 12:12 am
Hi helpmegetout
I identify strongly with your position.
I spent my last months at Ryde (now Macquarie) extension service before i finally dissappeared.
My present church is a refuge for the megachurch escapees…but because we’re still in the AOG, Hillsongers won’t stigmatise you for joining our church. It is an effective ‘escape hatch’. My leadership team are Hillsong critics…
Interested?
July 29th, 2007 at 12:35 am
helpmegetout,
‘I love the people there but don’t agree with some of the teachings.’
Which is the best way to put it, really. If you are certain that you’d like to leave, could you go for a coffee with one of the leaders at the extension and tell him or her exactly this, and let them know you are moving on? Leaving a church isn’t a bad thing if you are not comfortable there, but the way you leave is important.
July 29th, 2007 at 3:03 am
Hey all,
I’ve been unindated in response to my site…and I can get more if I want…two days and almost a thousand people have read my blog (but very few comment).
I’m needing more support…Lionfish I’m looking (mostly) at you….hard facts, what have we got?
Also, I need permission (again) to use peoples testimonies…please email me knightontherock@hotmail.com or leave them here for me…. Hillsong stories prefered but CCC acceptable.
Cheers
July 29th, 2007 at 4:50 am
helpmegetout, there’s no reason why you have to leave your friends behind. It’s not like you won’t see them again if you change churches. If they are real friends they will respect your beliefs and hold nothing against you for leaving.
Emblazoned, the site looks much better but you still need to make the Biblical basis of your claims more clear.
July 29th, 2007 at 7:06 am
Helpmegetout - So what you’re saying is that the people there will make it really hard on you to leave, and that if you leave Hillsong and start attending another church you’ll lose all of your close friends, you may be labelled a traitor, and you feel like you’ll be losing everything?
If Hillsong was a healthy, good church then there wouldn’t be these issues. The female leader of the childrens creche at our Baptist church left earlier this year to attend another Baptist church in the area (they didn’t move house, just churches). She and her family were valued members, so on their least Sunday with us she was invited up the front of the church, and the senior pastor prayed for her and the family and thanked her for her commitment and service. That’s the sort of thing healthy churches do.
July 29th, 2007 at 8:21 am
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the feedback. Emblazoned, I’m still praying about it, will get in contact with you if i decide to do so. FaceLift, I have talked to 1 or 2 really close brothers in the church, and I’m planning to talk to 1 of the leaders today. Hopefully that would clear things up for me. I’m trying my best to make this a smooth, out-of-the-radar “escape”. Like I said, since i am very close to most of the bros and sis in the church, if i leave telling them there are issues with the church, certainly they would have trouble understanding and may debate with me like what we have been doing here, and that would just make things sour. I’ve been thinking about this question for a while, should we pick theological accuracy over genuine relationships with bros and sis? Should we leave a church, which like most churches have weaknesses and theological errors in order to pursue one with less or even not going to one at all (like some ppl here), in the process leaving close relationships that you have built up there? I for one need bros and sis to encourage me in my walk with Christ and reading the bible is as important. On the other hand, i can’t see myself grow spiritually if i remained here in Hillsong with the shallow teachings, performance-oriented rather than christ-centred worship etc. It’s a tough decision, but one that God has lead me to. I will needs lots of prayers from you guys as well. And i believe i am not the only one in the church who would come into this situation considering the upcoming attention by the media with the release of the book. Cheers. God bless everyone of you.