hillsongs - the next installment
As the comments in two weeks have gone beyond 500 comments - here is the new thread..
4620 Responses to “hillsongs - the next installment”
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Pages: « 1 … 142 143 144 145 146 [147] 148 149 150 151 152 … 154 »
July 31st, 2007 at 10:52 pm
I took the time to suggest a future guest for Denton’s show…..Geoff
July 31st, 2007 at 10:57 pm
“Friggen Hillsong! I try so hard to back em up cos so many tear em down, but they are making it BLOODY HARD FOR ME NOW!
First they totally ignore that there are churches in our community dealing one-on-one with needy people here…they come in with their obnoxious orange shirts, knocking on every damn door like friggen MORMONS!
THEN
They decide, though there’s already various stuff going on that’s providing various needs for the community – That they will put on their OWN bbq so that they can share the love. How nice…
Then there are testimonies I’m hearing, of this community of upper-middle-class believers, inviting Telopea Pensioners and the like to their church. ALSO, befriending members of smaller churches, getting them involved in their little groups and seducing them right out of local churches. How rude!
Do these newbies to Telopea know what they are doing? What about when Hillsong Church’s direction or priorities change or the finances/budget for this ministry disappears? Sure this is all done for God, but will there be longevity of witness and relationship, or is it just a brief project to be used for a mini-documentary, projected on the giant Hillsong Church’s screen for a couple of services?
Guys like us with no colourful gimmicky uniforms or big budgets, but big hearts worn on our sleeves that are too big for our wallets, are still doing what we can to welcome and assist the surrounding community by providing programs, courses and certain services like counselling, family aid and food provision. We’re also found walking these streets…praying hard, and working on the long-term relationships that we have had with these people in our community for so long; These people who expect God to abandon them or let them down. We continue to try and undo the damage and distorted images of God that are already there before the orange people came and left, and did just what was expected by these guys…The feeling that God and Hillsong are only seeing their precious lives as some funky orange-tinted program are setting in rather solid.
What of the Telopean’s that they are inviting to their services who have come into our services drunk, or off their medication, yelling their heads off and questioning or cursing God…I recall in the Hillsong church that people were asked to leave if their babies even twitched with too much volume! Even BEFORE a wimper…Perhaps they like loud shirts and loud music over there in Hillsong, but are they prepared for these loud congregation members? Do they have a budget for starting a special playroom for them, like they do with the children - to keep them from wrecking their recordings? Seems like that’s the way they will have to go. Change the offering speech to 20mins guys!
Nah, they can lay hands on the sick and they will recover. No need for a long-time plan.
Don’t get me wrong; I believe that God wants healing for the mentally ill and I wont stop praying for it, but from what I see on a regular basis, many of us are changed “…from glory to glory” and not delivered from everything all at once; Oh I so want to see that happen more often, especially when surrounded by so much need.
I also see over and over and over again, that the breakthrough comes with lifestyle change, which can take years depending on the damage or old habits of the past - SO my immense concern is: Will Hillsong have the patience and the commitment it may take to stick in there and see this project through? One can slap on a Hillsong personality and use the special church buzz-words, catch phrases and hairdos, but is that proof of real victory? Hardly ever! It is instilled personality-style. Take the hype away and down they topple.
These guys need long-term faith building amidst a 24hr, 7day a week community! No brief visits to do mediocre household chores here and slapping on a new coat of paint there! There’s cleaning out dark, over-cluttered basements and closets, re-wiring needed, and the occasional need for stripping down to the foundations and building up again brick-by-brick. Hillsong: Are you keen?
Yes perhaps there is slight offence that these Castle Hill folk come into our community and think they can do it better than us, but truly - get this: I am actually convinced that they CAN’T!
This is a whole different world that requires them to take off the uniforms and blend in by wearing normal gear; To ditch the church buzz-words and learn to communicate in the local community’s style; Becoming an actual neighbour - not conveniently returning to one’s comfy houses after finishing the 3hr ministry shift. The special ministry uniforms never get taken off at the end of the day here.
Being involved in reaching out for Christ in most communities involves phone calls at the most inconvenient times, and late nights when these people that Hillsingers once invited for a simple BBQ, would knock on their front doors, needing help with a serious problem, or simply needing friendship when the deep pain inside becomes too much to bear alone. Needs like this cannot be filled with the occasional short-term voluntary vacuuming visits. Nor can they be worked on locally if the orange crusaders keep inviting our church members to their services, taking their hearts further and further away from the reality of the immediate need that is right outside their front door. Once again I will say it: Do these guys know what they are doing?!
Hillsong: It is great that you are discovering the need to come out of your Mega Church walls, get real and serve the community more, but while you guys were making albums and putting on conferences, what do you think we were doing?
We will still be doing it once orange goes out of fashion…”
From http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=60718789&blogID=293983994
Superb rant.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Hi everyone. After following a bit of a Google road map (what would we do without Google?!), I found my way to Geoff’s website and then here. If my daughter hadn’t told me about Tanya’s book, I wouldn’t have started searching. She works at one of the Borders bookstores and said there was a new, possibly controversial, release about Hillsong, so I’ve been searching online for information since then. Hit the jackpot here.
It would be impossible to read through all the posts about Hillsong here, but I have to tell you, I’ve got tears in my eyes to know that it wasn’t just me.
We left Hills five years ago after being a part of it for ten years (at one of the outreach services). We were originally a very small local church that was taken on as the first outreach service, and at the start it was wonderful. However, as time passed, the control increased. Eventually it became more than I could stand. We were in leadership, and the expectations nearly pushed me over the edge. In fact, I went into a pit for one very long year as I tried desperately to be what they seemed to want.
God finally got through to me and pulled me out of the pit of depression and eating disorder I had slipped into (all trying to fit the ideal). When He did, He gave me a revelation of His grace that literally turned my life around. Everything I am doing today sprang from that awakening. I discovered the grace of God, and from that moment, I promised I would never let any person steal that away from me.
That was in 1999, and as my husband had no intention of leaving our church (”We were the original members of that congregation, and no one is going to push us out!” LOL) I thought I’d be able to cope because my attitude had been so radically transformed. I was wrong.
Two things clarified it. The first was when I sat in a service and heard Brian say that mediocre Christians only go to church one on the weekend. As the congregation cheered, I felt something cringe inside me. It was one of many grace-killer moments.
The other was when I started back with the music team, at our outreach service, after a year off. Before long, we received a “pep” talk telling us that to be in the team we must attend two out of three services each week, must attend a home group, and must attend all meetings and events. I turned to the woman sitting next to me and said, “Well, that leaves me out.”
I’d been down that road, and nearly killed myself in the process. I wasn’t going back.
It became harder to sit in the services each week, and to my shame, I know I let my attitude show on more than one occasion.
It wasn’t until April, 2002, that my husband finally reached the point where he realized that we were being hypocrites to stay. We left without fuss and, thankfully, walked straight into a very simple, down to earth, community church where we’ve been given the freedom and opportunities to grow our gifts–no strings attached.
What we see at Hillsong isn’t unusual to them. It’s a trend that’s growing rapidly, and not surprisingly. To the observer, they have all the makings of success–so why wouldn’t you want to emulate them?
I am a writer and an editor, and for the last year or so I’ve felt God’s prompting to write a book for those people who are sitting in churches like Hills, and asking themselves, “What’s wrong with me?” I’ve even got the title in mind. So what’s stopped me? I’ve kept asking myself whether there really are others going through what we did, or if it was just me. Now I can see that those promptings I’ve been getting to start writing are definitely valid.
Got tears in my eyes again now as I realize that God is opening people’s eyes and bringing them back to a place of grace and humility. When we left Hills, we shut the door and kept moving on. We haven’t felt any bitterness or anger (had enough of that in the last couple of years before we left). Once we left, it was time to move on. However, I’ve seen the same issues of control growing in other churches, and it has been troubling me for the people who are being caught up in it all.
Anyway, long ramble for my first post (sorry). I guess it’s just such a relief to be able to see that it wasn’t just us.
With love, Deb
July 31st, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Deb, you are brave and I have nothing but respect for you and compassion for your experiences.
I have my own story with Hillsong, as do many here.
God bless you.
May I please post your testimony on a site I am running discussing Hillsong?
I will post it anonymously if you wish?
July 31st, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Maybe it’s because it’s realllllly late or maybe it’s because it’s reaaaalllllly late…. but I totally got you Deb. I don’t go to church much these days, though I still love God. There’s got to be more than what’s being offered now. I don’t even care about Hillsong or Lutheran or Baptist or anything else man made. I’m just busting for a God thing, where he really is present. I think that the things that burn inside your heart, your passions or ‘knowings’ if you will, are things that God places there. If you think the book will minister to people then please, write it.
Not much makes me cry anymore….. I can’t remember the last time I was moved…. hard hearts are even harder to make soft again…. mine used to be so soft.
sorry all….. rambling.
August 1st, 2007 at 12:41 am
Emblazoned, thank you so much for your encouragement. I can’t tell you what finding this site has meant. The word “justification” springs to mind, and then I feel a little bad for needing that after all this time.
You can post this on your site, but please do make it anonymous (right down to the “breathfreshair,” as I began that ministry before we left. If you could also leave out the reference to the first outreach service, that would be appreciated. On a site like this, I don’t mind it being known as I believe most people here have found it in much the same way I have. But it may be kinder not to make it quite so obvious where we were from anywhere else.
Turtleneck, thank you. It is reaaaalllly late (and I should have been in bed aaaaaaages ago), but I really appreciate what you said. I’ll let you know when I do write that book!
One common thing I’ve noticed in the threads I’ve been reading here over the last hour or so, is that so many people are quick to say that they genuinely believe that the leaders of Hills and similar churches really do have the best intentions. I believe this as well. For many years I’ve thought that if you went up to one of the leaders (lol–if you could!) and suggested that they were a tad graceless in their attitude to the members of the congregation, they would be horrified. In fact, they would never believe it for a second. Yet, I discovered that is exactly the way it was. Whenever you are told you must do something to be acceptable, or to serve in ministry, or whatever, that is a lack of grace.
One of the other things I found from some old posts was that people said if you speak out, you will tend to find yourself on the outside. The same is true if you have a ministry that is outside of the vision for Hillsong. It is just not recognized or encouraged.
The difference between that attitude of “we all must be lock-stepped regarding the vision and heading in the same direction,” as compared to the tiny community church we attend now, is like chalk and cheese. I’ve been leading the worship team in our little church for almost five years, but have had to step down from almost all ministry within the congregation recently because of the external ministry God has been growing in my life. Instead of shutting me out because of this, our pastor has embrace and celebrated every new thing God has been doing through me–even though it isn’t actually a part of the vision of the church.
Isn’t it strange how a releasing and encouraging congregation like this community church is really quite small in number, while the controlling, business-like churches tend to be growing in leaps and bounds. I wonder what that says about us, as Christians.
Anyway, I really have to go to bed, or I will be falling asleep in the keyboard.
Again, I’m thanking God for finally finding this forum.
Love, Deb
August 1st, 2007 at 1:13 am
Hehe yes. Sleep is good.
The one I don’t get is Lance, who posts at all sorts of bizarre times. maybe that’s just WA.
God bless!
August 1st, 2007 at 1:49 am
“The one I don’t get is Lance, who posts at all sorts of bizarre times. maybe that’s just WA.”
A combination of WA time..and I usually get home from work anywhere between 12:30am and 3:30am.
August 1st, 2007 at 7:10 am
Good on ya, Deb. It’s great to have you around! I hope the Signposts community can continue to be an encouragement to you, just as it has for myself and many others.
To get a bit of practice in for the book, why don’t you start things off by given Emblazoned a hand with his Myspace site? He’s doing some good stuff over there, and could do with a hand from some more ex-Hillsong peoples.
August 1st, 2007 at 8:43 am
Good on you Deb, no it’s not just you, the amazing thing is that there are probably people here who know you, I’m trying to rack my brains about which was the first outreach, burwood, campbeltown, st marys..can’t remember.
I think it is so moving that at the same time a famous australian model ( is that what she was? ) is in the papers after finding ‘God’ and hs, and a new book comes out which has everyone talking, here is another person, a normal God loving Christian, hurt by the monster and going through the ’stuff’ alone popping up on the site where some of the thousands find a bit of understanding. Next week there will be someone else, and the next week, and the next week etc. These are the hidden sheep abandoned by the machine.
Turtleneck, I’m praying for you that The Lord will restore your heart of softness, hope you don’t mind that I kind of pick up in your post that you’d like a soft heart again. If you don’t want me to pray just tell me to butt out. I won’t be offended.
August 1st, 2007 at 9:14 am
Speaking of Darryl, do you have a shiny testimony I can use? ^_^
August 1st, 2007 at 10:53 am
Emblazoned, I will write you my testimony again when I get the time and the energy.
August 1st, 2007 at 11:11 am
I’m just interested in knowing, especially from members of Hillsong when it was still relatively small, whether these bad fruits developed as the church got bigger or were there from the very foundations?
August 1st, 2007 at 11:46 am
I am new to signpost and find it just so encouraging. I have recently left my church and taken my family with me. It wasn’t Hillsong but a exact clone. We are not even in NSW but our leaders are Hillsong trained. All I have read on signposts about the goings on are exactly the same as we have experienced just the names are changed. We are thousands of miles from Sydney but it seems the “dodgy” practices reach far and wide. Even our Pastors wife has the clone Bobbie look
My husband and I believe that it was the best thing to take our children out of the Hillsong clone as our teenager was just being exploited and was just physically exhausted. Now is a time of this family to just “Be Still” and wait ( with excitement ) for what God has next for us. Blessing to all.
August 1st, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Emblazoned, no, I can’t help you out there. The closest I got to Hillsong was attending a couple of their conferences in the mid 1990s. I’ve spent most of my life at various Baptist churches.
Is there anything else I can help you out with?
August 1st, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Well…I’m a bit too lazy (or busy with random msgs from hillsongers, i should share some of them for tragic/comic value) to find that reference somewhere in singposts about an independent study done on HIllsong staff and a large number were found to be scared of speaking up thier true thoughts and feelings.
It would be somewhere on this mega-long thread…can anyone find it?
Also, Place in the Sun, wlecome. You are certainly not alone, for many many people have similar experiences. May God provide you with all that you need.
And also, permission to use your testimony on my site? ^_^
August 1st, 2007 at 12:39 pm
And while I’m talking about my site, in the last 10 days my blog posts on the site have been read 2037 times (a lot of those would be double ups from the same people). So far today alone there have been 257 readings of my blog.
And someone must have told Darlene’s poor intern about her mistake.
Darlene isn’t my friend anymore
August 1st, 2007 at 12:50 pm
thanks.
prayers are always welcomed.
August 1st, 2007 at 1:03 pm
I’m ok with Darlene’s departure, because I’m now number 1! Yay!
August 1st, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Sorry emanresu….I found another sloppy intern somewhere…
I love it. Makes me laugh ^_^
August 1st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Place in the Sun…your post touched a chord, perhaps it’s because you mentioned your teenage son.
I’d posted something long but then thought better of it, because there’s too many readers of Signposts that know my husband and I. Sometimes I wish I’d kept myself anonymous here, but oh well!!
Suffice to say that I regard my husband as a pretty classic case of the way the church chews up and spits out kids before they’ve even reached adulthood. There’s so many people out there who gave up their lives for the institutional church, who arguably spent more hours doing church stuff than any of the paid staff did, and yet sooner or later, they burn out, they leave and go to another church…and there’s nobody prepared to repay their generosity by sticking around to help them pick up the pieces. Time and time again I see people burn out, leave a community, and then realise that when they left the church, they left their “friendships” behind also. This is never a difficult thing to come to terms with, but it’s particularly difficult when you’re a teenager/young adult. I’ve seen so many kids with so much promise - be it in street ministry, administration or music - burn out before they even reach 25. This is a tragedy for the individual, and an immense loss to the church. It takes the individual years - sometimes even a lifetime - to recover from.
I hope that you and your husband, and in particular your son, can find the rest and restoration that you will need to get you through the next bit of the journey and on to a healthier, more-whole place.
August 1st, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Dammit Emblazoned. John Bevere? Honestly, he probably won’t even comment on your page =P
Bec’s right, PITS. The kids she talks about is exactly what Emblazoned and I are like. Both under 25, both having served wholeheartedly, both being chewed up and then losing friends when you leave. I’m glad you’re out, and hope your family just enjoys the peace in the waiting time.
August 1st, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Permission to use your statements on my site Bec? (anonymously if you like)
Also do you have a testimony I could use?
Cheers..
August 1st, 2007 at 1:35 pm
emblazoned…neither of us have any experience of Hillsong, we haven’t even ever attended a pentecostal church (just traditional denominational ones that happened to be big and charismatic).
August 1st, 2007 at 2:00 pm
David
it was there from the beginning
i used to attend Baulkham Hills Baptist with Rev Richard Ansoul who used to run a very large scripture program in all the local high schools and primary schools and was very effective. i also taught scripture alongside him for a while.. he had volunteers from all the local churches and organised them well.
anyway Hills CLC as it was known then would ‘help out’ maybe once a yr and when i say ‘help out’ i really mean ‘take over’ with what was nothing more than a recruitment drive for their church.. (heaven help the poor unruly teenager that was forced to go to scripture when Pat was there as he was singled out in front of his classmates with “hey you.. you really piss me off”!!!) they would have a band and tell the kids that if they came to youth alive at the council chambers they would all get a free tape (20 yrs ago mind you)..
so off to youth alive we go and Pat Mesiti give the usual McSermon for 20min followed by the obligatory alter call “come to the front if you want to recieve Jesus… and if you came for the free tape, now is the time to come to the front to get it” !!! I shit you not!
Wow youth alive had over 500 youth respond to the alter call that night…. with many a pissed off kid who missed out on a tape as they only had about 250…
August 1st, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Ifiknewthen, we could have crossed paths at some time, although we didn’t really get to know many people from the main church. But we went to all the things we were supposed to go to, including the leadership training nights and what have you. So I’m sure we probably were at the same things many times, even if we didn’t actually meet.
The first outreach service was at St. Clair, but we moved the service to Minchinbury after a couple of years.
David, I can only give my opinion based on our experiences when we were at Hills. Steve Kelly had the vision for the outreach services, and from what I can gather, Brian really didn’t think a great deal of the idea at first, but let Steve experiment with us.
Up until then, we were a very tiny AOG congregation, with a very good heart and a good, strong leadership team. The problem was that, for whatever reason, no matter what we did, the people were staying away in droves. We often wondered if we should rent-a-crowd! (just kidding)
As far as Hills went at that time, to be honest, I really hadn’t any personal experience with them at all before they approached us about taking us on as an outreach service. In fact, I didn’t even know where they were. All I did know was that someone was writing music that was saying what was in my heart. I remember hearing “The Power of Your Love” the first time and thinking, “Who wrote this?” It is one of the few songs that has had that kind of impact on me.
So when we all met with Steve Kelly about this exciting new proposal, we were thrilled–with one reservation. My husband was concerned that we would lose our identity as a community church. Steve Kelly assured us that wouldn’t happen, and that we would have the best of both worlds. A congregation being run by the people in that congregation, but supported by Hills.
For the first three or four years, that’s exactly how it was. The support we received in every way was wonderful, and we did learn so much from a leadership point of view at that time. BUT after that, things did start to change. This is no reflection on Steve, who I think moved to America around then. He was an amazing support to us. He was slways encouraging and went out of the way to really connect with us. There were others who were the same and we appreciated that so much.
However, little by little, as time went by, the control started to kick in, and our input became less and less necessary (something that the pastor actually said of the leadership team at one point). We soon lost our identity as a community congregation, and seemed to really exist for the sake of the main congregation.
So I really can’t say that the problems were there from the start. Again, I believe the intentions have always been good. However, running a congregation like a business has so many problems. For one thing, the congregation tend to be viewed as unpaid employees. So when the pressure is on to attend so many things, it does wear rather thin when you start to feel as though your willingness to serve is being somewhat taken for granted, or even a little bit abused.
I believe the changes have been fairly gradual. No church is perfect, and I’m sure that there were issues from the start, including some control things that were the seeds for the problems now–although I’ve seen other churches doing exactly the same thing, and worse. However, these things kept growing as the success of the church grew. And when you think of it, why wouldn’t it? If something appears to be working well, creates vast income, and the people seem to be largely excited to be able to serve, you would just keep raising the bar. The thing is that I’m not so sure people can maintain the pace for any length of time. Some will thrive on it, but others, like me, end up crashing.
Thank God He pulled me out, dusted me off, and opened my eyes. It all seems like
One thing with the numbers too, it has always bothered me a little bit when the reports say that there are 19000 (or whatever) people attending the services each weekend. They definitely do get huge numbers, but I always felt a little twinge over the figures when you know that the pastors have to attend all the services, the leaders are told to attend two out of three of the weekend services, and the congregation are given the impression that really “on fire” Christians attend more than once a weekend. So if you subtract all the people who are attending two or more times a weekend, it does make me wonder if that figure of 19000 is really all that accurate. Even so, they do still get huge numbers, so I suppose we shouldn’t quibble over it. (Even if I’m a quibbler.)
I listened to the interview with Geoff B on his soundclick website, and I think that summed up a lot of what we went through. I’m probably not wording it exactly right, but he said something about how hard it was trying to meet the expectations placed on him while at Hills. That is what it was like.
I think my husband survived longer because he didn’t try to meet anyone’s expectations. He did what had to be done and didn’t let anyone try to guilt him into doing anything that he didn’t feel God had placed in His hands. On the other hand, I was brought up to be a “good girl.” You do what people ask, so that you don’t get into trouble. With that attitude in a place like Hills, it’s no wonder I went off the deep end.
As I’ve mentioned before, though, and as others have said in this thread (including Place in the Sun) this is not peculiar to Hillsong. Far from it.
Love, Deb
August 1st, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Hey Deb,
Thanks for your insights. I guess the reason that I was asking was because I believe it’s quite possible for a church to start out with noble intentions, but start to lose the plot when they get a bit too big for their boots. Indeed, this is perhaps an even more dangerous situation because I believe that there are many abusive church environments in which the leaders themselves actually delude themselves into believing that they are doing God’s work when they are actually being abusive. Hype starts out as pure marketing, but the hype becomes so much of a mantra that you start actually honestly believing the hype.
I feel a real sense of empathy and compassion when I hear about parishioners being burnt out by the obligations that the church imposes upon them and the guilt that they feel when they are unable or unwilling to meet these expectations. It reminds me a bit about Reverend Hale’s conversation with John Proctor in Arthur Miller’s “The Crucible”, in which Reverend Hale makes light of the fact that the devil has been granted a foothold because John Proctor has occasionally missed church (and for very valid reasons). I’ve talked about this phenomenon at http://ministryofincompetence.blogspot.com/2007/07/how-to-turn-your-church-into-orwellian.html - it would be interest would be interesting to get your comments.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:08 pm
“I’m just interested in knowing, especially from members of Hillsong when it was still relatively small, whether these bad fruits developed as the church got bigger or were there from the very foundations?’
This is a repeat of my post at #3863…starting with a quote from a previous Signposts…ummm….post.
————-
“For me, things started to ‘change’ at Hills when Howard Cargill was invited to share his ‘capital stewardship program’ with us. The whole idea behind this was for churches to be able to buy their own land and buildings without going ‘cap-in-hand’ to the banks. It required super-sacrificial giving from the congregation. I was one of several leaders and elders who were invited to a special briefing with this guy one night, to ask questions etc. I remember being concerned that some of the congregation (single mums etc) would feel pressured to ‘get with the program’. I was assured this would not happen…but I think it did. I was also required to go out to people’s homes and ‘collect’ their commitment to the building fund. I didn’t like it, but I did it.
This is where I think the whole money thing started.”
Howard Cargill was the co-founder of a fund-raising business called Cargill Associates….
One of their clients was Lynnwood Church of the Nazarene, Washington, USA.
http://www.americantowns.com/wa/lynnwood/organization/lynnwood_church_of_the_nazarene
“Just as we have a youth pastor, children’s pastor and worship pastor to help us in their respective areas of expertise, Howard Cargill will, in a very real way, become like a part-time staff member of our church helping us fine-tune our ministry of stewardship.
In this carefully designed program, we will take a Bible-based, Christ-centered approach that will help each of us grow in our understanding of Christian stewardship. The goal in this campaign is to invite every member and friend of Lynnwood Nazarene to prayerfully consider what God would have us give toward the 2002 operating budget (existing ministries) and over a 3-year period of time, what God would have us give towards the capital needs for the new sanctuary. An important principle throughout this campaign is “Not Equal Giving, but Equal Sacrifice.” This principle recognizes that every gift, whether large or small, is significant in the eyes of God.”
Cargill Associates packages its fundraising techniques …. for non-Christian organisations..
http://www.cargillassociates.com/default.aspx?name=institution_main
“Cargill Associates approaches fundraising as ARCHITECTS IN PHILANTHROPY. Our role is that of an architect, enlisted to create plans to fulfill a vision – your vision – a dream for a new library, a hospital wing, or an expanded endowment. We can partner with you to draw plans that will turn your vision into reality.
Building an effective major gifts campaign involves as much planning and exploration as the careful construction of a new facility. A comprehensive study and analysis are distinctive parts of the Cargill approach.
Campaign plans at Cargill Associates are unique. They are specifically crafted to fit your organization, just as an architect’s plan takes into consideration existing facilities and financial resources. Cargill structures its fundamentally sound, proven methods of fundraising around your vision.”
And the same thing in Christianese…
http://www.cargillassociates.com/default.aspx?name=church_main
“All Things Are Possible….
These simple words provide the context for realistic stewardship expectation when God is intentionally invited into the giving process.
At Cargill, it is our responsibility to help you frame the giving process from that perspective. For within the practice of good stewardship are unique elements, elements that challenge and stretch one’s vision, inspiring commitment beyond what anyone thought possible. ”
So how do they fleece the flock….err….encourage Godly stewardship?
“Capital Campaign Consultation
All of us are time-conscious, looking for every possible efficiency within our schedules. This is why the Cargill Associates management team partners with the president, development office staff, and key campaign leaders to draft the most effective organizational strategies. Responsibilities of Cargill Associates during campaign consultation may include:
CAMPAIGN PROCEDURES
Cargill provides campaign procedures and monitors the campaign work throughout the effort. A fundraising campaign is a closely coordinated series of procedures and events. A critical path/timeline ensures that time is available for the staff and Cargill Associates to implement these actions. Campaign procedures are monitored through on-site consultation visits, regular communications, and follow-up reports. Consultation visits are used to plan and implement key volunteer leadership enlistments/solicitations; discuss campaign progress; make mid-course corrections where needed; and provide model campaign materials and staff training.
ENLISTING LEADERSHIP
Cargill provides procedural instructions and training for the enlistment of campaign leadership. The wealth of information harvested in the Pre-Campaign Survey aids in the identification of leaders needed to fill the most crucial positions of the campaign.
INTENSIFYING AWARENESS
Cargill establishes a program to intensify awareness and involve key donors and prospects. A series of coordinated events can be developed to intensify donor awareness and involvement and to build campaign momentum.
QUALIFYING DONORS
Cargill assists in qualifying potential donors and can facilitate a process to identify donor potential, allowing you to maximize their giving to your organization.
TRAINING
Cargill produces job descriptions and training materials for volunteers and staff, and assists and participates in the training of campaign volunteers. A major ”fringe benefit“ of any campaign conducted by Cargill Associates is the corps of trained volunteers.
FOLLOW-UP
Cargill establishes a system to acknowledge and record campaign pledges as well as a follow-up program to collect the pledges. Often, current procedures for accepting and collecting pledges must be modified to handle the increased activity and unique situations generated by a campaign. Furthermore, Cargill can help establish follow-up procedures to assist in collecting outstanding pledges.”
Gee, and I bet you thought Hill$ong’s guiding principles on finances were based on the bible…not a fundraising consultancy business in Fort Worth, Texas.”
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From http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/10/hillsongs-the-next-installment/comment-page-129/#comment-170526
August 1st, 2007 at 4:11 pm
And I think it would be fair to say that because Hill$ong used this as a template for getting money out of people…the same culture of aggressive and calculated intimidation became entrenched in other areas of ‘ministry’.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Permission to quote you on my site Lance? Just that last article ^_^