hillsongs - the next installment
As the comments in two weeks have gone beyond 500 comments - here is the new thread..
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Signposts is the personal website of Phil and Dan McCredden. We are involved in leadership at Northern Community.
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Recent entries
November 24th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Neil, you are so pathetic. You are so far from the truth you wouldn’t know it if it bit you on the bum.
I read the ENTIRE thread. I know what is going on.
As for hearsay….where in my posts can you quote me?
I personally know Joel, Marty, Nigel, Marcus and Mike. Not through Hillsong but as musician friends outside. So screw you. Kiss my ‘lazy’ ass you pathetic excuse for humanity.
November 24th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Hmmm….and I’m sure you’ve just proved yourself a good example of the commuity with that little spray, too.
November 24th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
hmmmmm
November 24th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Quick, Stumpy - open some beers for these 2!
(or perhaps they’d prefer a spritzy rose instead?)
November 24th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
So Dido, would I be right then to assume that you are just a foul mouthed Hill$ong bully sent here to upset people? Just want to get the facts right…
November 26th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
Whenever I post about the ‘contemporary’ church…..some Signposters may notice that the word ‘contemporary’ is in inverted commas.
It’s my view that what pastors see as being ‘contemporary’ to 2006…is actually ‘contemporary’ to about 20-25 years ago.
I’ve found a great example of what I mean in this video from 1978.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dqqIBGgOgX4
To me…it looks just like a ‘contemporary’ church in 2006…
‘Can you feel it’?
November 27th, 2006 at 10:05 am
I personally know Joel, Marty, Nigel, Marcus and Mike. Not through Hillsong but as musician friends outside. So screw you. Kiss my ‘lazy’ ass you pathetic excuse for humanity
Its funny how people when they know the truth but are unwilling to deal with it openly attack others to hide it. Humanity at times is so predictable. We are all pretty pathetic when you think long and hard about it. THank you for bringing it to our attention.
November 27th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Oh good, I’m so glad that CCC has integrity when it removes someone from ministry or spiritual oversight after behaving like a sociopath.
http://change.org.au/subpages/connect/dan-karocz.php
So glad that person is now not directly responsible for a regular mid-week group in a intimate home setting. What’s it been? a few months?
Pfftt…..
November 27th, 2006 at 10:50 am
What’s this guy’s history?
November 27th, 2006 at 11:03 am
You don’t remember all that….?
Well, i don’t want to re-open old wounds as persecuting the guy is not the point, the point is that his church is not “restoring” him properly.
In short, he dragged a dead possum around a picnic area off the back of a car to impress some younger members of his youth group. Went to court. Judge was so concerned about his state of mind that a psychological examination was ordered.
We don’t think he’s a sociopath. Just a fool with a hard streak. But the focus now is on the church’s response. Not him.
November 27th, 2006 at 11:04 am
Oh & he’s the son of the Church’s secondary college.
November 27th, 2006 at 11:06 am
son of the Church’s secondary college’s Principal that was meant to say. Apolz.
November 27th, 2006 at 11:35 am
Good ol’ Dan… caught up with him at GJ’s a couple weeks ago. I thought the possum thing was a bit overrated… why is it still “dragging” on?
November 27th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
What’s GJ’s?
The possum thing would have never been revisited except for CCC’s inability to stick to a restoration policy instead of being motivated only by reinstating him the moment public/media interest died down.
If you’re creative or well-presented (Korocz) or a financial rainmaker (Mesiti) it seems that ministry duties seem to come back as soon as people stop talking about what happened.
Never let an aprropriate period of shame & reflection get in the way of good-looking people making shite-loads of cash or self-promoting.
November 27th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Oh, & Emanresu, if he is just a good ol’ boy who is misunderstood & the victim of a media beat-up, why was the Judge so concerned & why did his TAFE class vote to have him removed. These are people who met him & were concerned that something wasn’t right.
Can you tell us how they were wrong?
What is your association / connection with him?
November 27th, 2006 at 12:28 pm
The fact of the matter is this:
They are a business for whom it is not commercially viable to have a good-looking singer-songwriter-worship leader out of circulation one moment longer than is necessary to make a gesture towards the pretence of dissaproval.
End of…
November 27th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
Hey Reve,
I’m well aware that tone doesn’t come across too well online, but I was actually just making a light-hearted joke, hence the inverted comma’s above “dragging”.
GJ’s is CCC slang for Gloria Jeans.
I used to work for CCC, so I know him quite well.
I agree with all you’re saying, but I’m keeping my sentences short and without any attempt at humour, so that it doesn’t get taken the wrong way.
November 27th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Please excuse my over-reaction. I am laughing now.
Is this Gloria Jeans at Narrabeen? Is that where CCC trendies hang out for midweek metings & before & after services?
You’re ex-CCC now?
November 27th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
It’s cool… I thought it fairly funny myself.
Yeah, Gloria Jeans at Narrabeen. I go there all the time, but not because I want to be in the in-crowd.. simply because I like the coffee and it’s near where I live.
I’m ex-CCC now, yes. Or, should I say, I’m EX-ccc? The emphasis should be on “ex”.
November 27th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
Me too,
Where are you worshipping now? Do you agree that young ppl there get infested with pringl-esque arrogance which then reflects in their general personalities?
How long has it been since you left & how do they react to you when they see you now?
November 27th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Right now I’m not worshipping anywhere. Frankly, I’m finding most churches to still be missing something very important, and that is love. I find God more when I’m just with a bunch of friends and the topic is Him.
I would agree with the Pringle-esque arrogance… In fact, I was pretty damn arrogant myself. I’ve been to change a few times, and seriously, I’ve never felt so unwelcome anywhere. You know it’s bad when you are more welcome and cared for at a piss-up than at church.
I left about 6 months ago. I tried going back a few times because I felt that I had to, but now I couldn’t be happier that I’m not there.
When people who I knew very well a long time ago see me (at Gloria Jeans, no doubt) I get the whole “Hey champion, legend, mate! How are you!” treatment. It’s all show and tell though… No one from CCC has bothered to hang out with me, or even give me a phone call since I left. It’s like if I’m not there, then they don’t care. Very very painful indeed…
To give you a brief recap… I went there in the Brookevale warehouse days when I was young and before I moved overseas. When I came back I joined again. I was a major part of Pulse for 3 years, did a huge amount of work for Phenomena 2002 - 2005, and was an employee for 18 months.
I also did SCA for 2 years…
What’s your story? I’ve read bits and pieces here and there, but I can’t remember all…
November 27th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Like you, involved during the mid-nineties at Brookvale. Attended MTC. Got baptised through them. Attended House Church. All while i was 21-22 years old. Saw the RHB/ Toronto Blessing & Power Team revivals.
I miss the energising atmosphere. I miss being on a high Sunday nights & Monday mornings. I miss that feeling of being surrounded by “winners” & movers & shakers. People “doing life well”. I miss the silence punctuated with gasps - a whole auditorium held - by PP’s distinct voice & thinking “he just spoke directly to me & he didn’t even know it”
I know it’s all shite, fake etc etc……but we’re talking about a feeling here, not an intellectual truth. Is it the same for you?
November 27th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
I’m not so sure… I’d say it was mostly a feeling because now that I’ve come to know God on a different level, I realise that what I felt there wasn’t quite the same. There is something about CCC that I still hunger for, and that is hearing great messages (lets forget about the stuff we’re all bitching about on in this thread, there are still great messages preached) and feeling like I was part of something bigger.
Funny story… When I moved overseas, it was one week before the Powerteam showed up at CCC, and I was really upset that we missed them. But, 2 weeks later we saw them at a church in the states… And, since it’s a small world after all, I actually attended TACF (the toronto blessing church) for about three years.
I miss church life very much, but I also feel healthier… I feel like I don’t have to be a fake any more to be accepted.
November 27th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Hey tell me something…..
We agree that you have to be fake to be accepted at CCC & that admitting you’re dealing with anything real is a coffin nail for your social life there. And we agree about the hyper-real arrogance that exists there.
That said, how often did you see cracks in the veneer? examples of when ppl couldn’t keep the mask up. For instance, how many closeted gay & lesbian ppl would you say are there repressing their true feelings?
November 27th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
I just read 1161 again & saw
“It’s like if I’m not there, then they don’t care. Very very painful indeed…”
Just wanted to say that i know exactly what you mean. How can our brains equate the warmth & atmosphere of a regular attendee to being out in the cold & inconsequential once you take a break? What a rude awakening. I am in touch with not one single person that i knew there, not one.
November 27th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
Well, I know of about 4 or 5 guys there who are gay… only one of them is brave enough to proclaim it proudly on his Myspace page.
Anyone else I’ve seen who couldn’t keep the mask up has to a certain extent being disowned. After all, you can’t have leaders who don’t carry the appearance of perfection to be involved.
And the silly thing is, there’s very few people who just go along for fellowship and to worship God… not because they don’t want to, but as soon as your in, you’ve got to get some sort of rank, or help out in some way in order to get noticed.
November 27th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Do you mind if i get your email? Do you have a myspace?
November 27th, 2006 at 3:15 pm
That’s very sad to hear… It seriously breaks my heart… Everytime I show up (once I left I tried to a couple times) I felt worse and worse. Once I quit my job there people didn’t talk to me.
I wonder what Jesus would think of what his church has become… Did Jesus even intend to start a church?
The church (as it should be) should be nothing but warmth and kindness, and an overbearing sense of God’s love… however, it is anything but. Now it’s about programs, image, and material success in others eyes. I’m sorry you’ve been through the same thing Reve… I think you’re about 5 years older than me, and I’m still fresh out of the CCC loop, and frankly, I’m finding it encouraging that there’s someone older than me who’s been through it and not left God completely.
November 27th, 2006 at 3:17 pm
I do have a Myspace and an e-mail address! I don’t know how you go about getting it though… for the sake of people from CCC who might read this and who haven’t been hurt, or who still find it very helpful in their walk with God, I don’t want them to see what my opinion has become, especially since a lot of people know who I am. Can Dan give it to you? Dan, if you’re reading this um.. Hi, nice to meet you =P and can you give reve my e-mail address?
November 27th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Hey guys. I’m the same with my exiting Hillsong…it sounds very similar to the CCC experience…no offense, but I always thought there was quite an arrogant streak in CCC. I remember doing a missions trip in the Northern Beaches, we were just visiting pubs and clubs and chatting to people about God stuff (now that’s how mission should be done hehe - we all got beer money!) when we met some CCC people at the Arms. I was expecting some encouragement or something, but the pair of them were quite rude and looked down on what we were doing, basically telling us we should be relying on the Holy Spirit to provide miracles or we weren’t doing legitimate evangelism.
“I’m finding it encouraging that there’s someone older than me who’s been through it and not left God completely.”
I’ve left Hillsong this year and I’m fighting to keep my faith. The whole experience is quite harrowing.