hillsongs - the next installment
As the comments in two weeks have gone beyond 500 comments - here is the new thread..
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Signposts is the personal website of Phil and Dan McCredden. We are involved in leadership at Northern Community.
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Recent entries
November 27th, 2006 at 5:51 pm
Emblazoned,
I can’t say it surprises me too much. I’ve been to Hillsong all of about 3 or 4 times, and I felt much more welcome there than I did at CCC. I understand that it’s damn hard to keep the faith.. and I would say right after I left CCC I was about ready to quit on God as well… I mean, we all assume that God would be represented through his children, but that’s not quite what is going on.
One of my friends sent me this e-book that I’ve been reading, and it’s been amazing. I can’t describe how much healing I’ve had reading it. You can get it as a PDF file at: http://www.jakecolsen.com
Reve, you’d probably like it as well… In fact, I’m pretty sure everyone would like it and benefit greatly from it.
November 27th, 2006 at 7:48 pm
That book is written by the owner of the same website I’ve recommended to heaps of institutional “refugees”- http://www.lifestream.org
Hang in there boys - there is light at the end of the tunnel & a much more real, authentic faith that is separate to men & their kingdoms after de-programming.
Cheers,
Jane
November 27th, 2006 at 7:50 pm
Hi Jane,
Haven’t said hi to you before, so I thought I would now… Thanks for the link, I’m gonna have to check it out =)
November 27th, 2006 at 10:08 pm
I read the book just then - it’s a lovely story. Most of it won’t be new to people on this site, but worth a read.
November 27th, 2006 at 11:10 pm
Thanks all who read & commented. I feel much less isolated, here. I have been attending an Emerging Church on & off, but ……….i just grieve that atmosphere the emergents rightly refuse to emulate.
Dan / Phil, Emanresu has my permission to recieve my email address & i would like his so if you would do the exchange.
Yep, Emanresu - i’m 33 so i’m guessing you’re late 20’s?
Gonna crash now, will check this tomorrow!
November 28th, 2006 at 5:41 am
Morning Reve,
I was wrong, there’s actually exactly 10 years difference between us… Turns out I’m not that good at math =P
November 28th, 2006 at 8:52 am
23 & already so evolved & emotionally/psychologically articulate. I’m impressed. That was about the age that i started to have doubts, too. Look at the consistency of our experiences even though there’s a decade betwen us. I would definitely like to meet at some stage & grab a coffee, heck, GJ’s at Narra would do fine. I still live northside & drive.
****Dan, if you haven’t already, please give Emanresu my email*****
November 28th, 2006 at 9:42 am
GJ’s at Narrabeen would suit me to a T and I would like the chance to meet you. I’m not so sure that I’m specially emotionally/psychologically articulate… I just threw myself into the church culture so hard and fast and gave it my all, until there was nothing left.
November 28th, 2006 at 10:41 am
I have to let you know that during the 4 days of the Forge intensive in Sydney there were present two of the most enlightened and beautiful young women I have ever met. They come from Colorado (Beuna Vista Colorado to be precise). They were intelligent, witty, thoughtful, missional and totally connected to the ideas and discussions coming out of the Forge Intensive…and guess what?…they were students at HS College!!!
The girls, Chris and Emily were the farthest thing from the stereotypical Bobie Barbie clones that we have come to associate with H$. Mind you they copped alot of pressure (to which they have not and will not conform) to get with the program.
They confirmed the approach to “using” students as free labour at conferences HS are famous for - and the expectation to be at everything and to attend and stay with the program - stuff gets handed down as “Brian and Bobbie want this…”.
Anyhoo - they were so refreshing and I really loved meeting them
November 28th, 2006 at 11:35 am
And when Hillsong finds out that two of their students attended a Forge conference? You think they won’t be “counselled”?
I would love to see cross-over, Greg, & for my pidgeon-holing to be proven limited-thinking. But i’ll need more than a cpl of American students who can’t be honest with their teachers about their associations to be convinced.
One other thing, i’m sure these girls were lovely, i can imagine, but…. if they are missional & intelligent, why would they travel half-way across the world to attend Hillsong College, or at least, why have they stayed there once they sussed it?
I left CCC Ministry Training College and lost my first semester’s fees years ago (which were considerable), so no-one can tell me that you have to stay somewhere just to honour your investment once you’ve realised you don’t belong there.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
You read way too much into things young reve - you didn’t meet them and I’m no fool. I’m actually sorry I posted about them now.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
I know i read ro much into things. You’re not the first person to say that & you won’t be the last. I admire your lack of bitterness & jadedness. Don’t let me taint a positive experience you had.
I’m working on it, be patient with me….
November 28th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
Hmmm…patient? I guess I could give it a go!
I was truly impressed with these girls they didn;t change my mind about HS and in fact I don;t think they would have wanted to try - Idon;t even think they like HS buit for them it’s more a matter of “well it’s not for me”. I didn;t really go into much of the political stuff with them. It was just amazing that two wonderful people such as Chris and Em even attended the college! And they are honest with their teachers, even to the point of trying to get some other students to come along to the intesive
November 28th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
I know it doesn’t really matter now, but I’d imagine a lot of us here would read too much into things. I mean, we spent a significant part of our lives not looking into things and it hurt us deeply, so we’ve made it a point to look into what others are saying. It’s too be expected that it might happen too much sometimes. But hey! It’s Tuesday, which in my books is a good day to just sit back and relax!
November 28th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Isthat befcause it’s the day before Wednesday?
November 28th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
Yeah, pretty much!
November 30th, 2006 at 12:45 am
While we all know that Christmas is the time where many Retailers rely upon to generate the greatest proportion of its annual revenues, many feel uncomfortable about the commercialisation of Christmas.
But what about the Church? Is it healthy for a Church to leverage this Holy day to subsidise its operations (apart from collecting offerings)
I recieved a report from my Hillsong contact that keeps me updated and gives some insight into how far some Churches are prepared to test this proposition.
He writes:
http://www2.hillsong.com/church/default.asp?pid=1228
Seems people one the INSIDE these Churhces are ’suspicious’ of the motives and direction that the ‘Commercial’ Church is heading. Not just those “critical naughty boys” (and gals) from Signposts…
November 30th, 2006 at 12:53 am
“G.R.” also writes:
Pastor Grant, if you would like to explain your teaching here at Signposts, we have an ear to hear you…
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:51 am
Hillsong Christmas Services.
http://www2.hillsong.com/church/default.asp?pid=1228
“These one-hour services are very special, with beautiful carols, Santa, surprises for the kids and more! Come and join with us as we celebrate Jesus this Christmas time.”
Does anyone know of any other church in Australia where ‘Santa’ shows up on Christmas Day?
Is this crossing the threshold of the church accepting ‘Santa’ as an official part of Christmas celebrations?
December 2nd, 2006 at 11:57 am
“Santa Claus pays a Christmas Day visit to the epicentre of Christian evangelism, the Hillsong Church.
“I think Santa has at times been unfairly vilified,” says [Brian] Houston. “Santa is merely a fun figure and I don’t believe that Christians should have a scrooge mentality that wants to take all the fun out of Christmas.
“I actually don’t believe that a fun figure like Santa is any real threat to the powerful message of hope that is Christ the Saviour being born.”
From http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/11/28/1101577350784.html
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:18 pm
santa is an anagram of satan
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:03 pm
I have no problem with Santa being in church on Christmas day! I have a problem with Brian being in church on Christmas day!
December 3rd, 2006 at 12:12 am
I will agree with Brian on this occasion. I see little harm in Santa.
I remember the Christian Revival Centre guys handing out pamphlets in Hay St mall (Perth) stating that Santa is an anagram of satan…
What crap.
Santa is Saint in other languages ( i am led to believe) … Santa Paulos means Saint Paul.
Santa is simply ‘Saint Nicholas’… that what I tend to think any way,
Who cares.
I have had a little toomuch red wine and should not be blogging any way lest I say something i regret (again).
good noght folks. don’t forget to turn your clock forward.
December 3rd, 2006 at 9:22 am
If Santa is an anagram of Satan - then what is a hologram??? This Luke Skywalker and Chrismas stuff has me confused.. And is Brian an anagram for Brnia, it would seem only logical.
December 3rd, 2006 at 9:18 pm
Brian is an anagram of Brain…now THAT is scary!
December 4th, 2006 at 8:20 am
Oh anagrams how fun! Neil is an anagram of our esteemed comrad Nile, of the Fred variety!
December 4th, 2006 at 10:42 am
The ABC radio had an interesting talk on Cults by David Milikan of the uniting church. He had his words on H$ and Brian Houston if anyone is interested. It also talked about those who had been abused by cults. It may be of benefit to many people on here.
From http://www.abc.net.au/queensland/conversations/stories/s1800265.htm?sydney
December 4th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Rumours have just hit the mill that Hillsong has bought Coverdale Christian School, a school that was originally built out of a Baptist Church. If true, hillsong now has control of the education of hundreds of teeny-boppers every day of the week….
December 4th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
John,
Thanks for the kink…interesting interview…Don’t know how i missed it actually.
December 5th, 2006 at 1:02 am
Thanks John for that link. I found that an interesting conversation.
He made an intersting point about H$ and membership retention. Did he say that about 30% leave the church?
Which made me think about how some preachers measure their “success” by the numbers game. How many “soul’s were saved” at a service, etc. It’s always seemed to be that many of these types of churches are a revolving door, for as many that enter, there are just as many that leave. No wonder that often in these churches people are thought of as replacable and somewhat disposable. There is always more incoming to take one’s place, should one disagree with management.