hillsongs - the next installment
As the comments in two weeks have gone beyond 500 comments - here is the new thread..
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Signposts is the personal website of Phil and Dan McCredden. We are involved in leadership at Northern Community.
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Recent entries
January 22nd, 2007 at 9:49 am
I agree Janet, she can be entertaining despite her being “tainted with WOF and prosperity stuff”. She must be doing something right. Her ministry rakes in about $100 million US each year. I find her devotion to expensive clothing, jewelry and “nice things” pretty off. It is amazing to me that she allegedly spends so much on her appearance and yet still looks like a “Pterodactyl with make-up on” (that was Reve not me btw…ha ha).
When you read about her lavish lifestyle and the lack of finanical transparency within her ministry you have to worry.
No doubt, she is more watchable than most of those clowns on TV in the wee small hours. No stone throwing from me… I think I understand where you are coming from. Especially re the dearth of decent tv when breastfeeding at 4am.
January 22nd, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Just a question about the CCCOF Art Gallery. Am I correct in thinking that the Art Gallery, being on the CCCOF premises, was something that was built through tithes and offerings and/or the “Rise and Build” fund? If so, is it ethical for Pastor Phil to be showing, selling and promoting his own artwork through the gallery and in particular using events like Joyce Meyer to further promote sales to large numbers of visitors to the church? Does he pocket the money from sales of his artwork sold through the gallery or is it fed back into the church funds?
January 22nd, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Intersting……Madeleine Landau author of “Captive Hearts, Captive Minds” states that there is very little difference between the criteria required for a diagnosis a Cult Leader & a Psychopath.
http://www.anandainfo.com/cult_leaders.html
Makes sense really, both require an absence of internal conflict (conscience) in order to achieve their aims.
January 22nd, 2007 at 1:15 pm
diagnosis OF a Cult Leader & a Psychopath, meant to say, sorry.
January 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 am
I knew Tony a bit in his former life and would like to attend the booklaunch on 3rd February in Sydney . If anybody is interested please get my email address from Dan.
Katharine
http://www.freedom2b.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3039
January 23rd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I’ll be going Katharine, already accepted, i’ll see you there!
January 25th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Reve’s post #1500 is entirely accurate. I knew both of those guys, the islander and the golfer very well. The islander guy was exactly as described. I would get so sick of seeing him pursue any famous person who came to CCC. I watched him change from a regular nice guy into a sycophant, and from recollection his changing coincided with PPP’s preaching about hanging around with successful people instead of losers. By the way, the golfer was never that good, and whilst he was a pro golfer, that usually means they get payed to teach old ladies and mums and to work in the pro shop, which is why you would never had heard of him.
January 27th, 2007 at 8:43 am
“Sydney’s culture of the relentless pursuit of property, perfect bodies and status has British psychologist and author Oliver James worried.
… Middle-class Sydney, he writes, is “packed with career-obsessed workaholics”. When they are not working the longest hours in the developed world, they pursue perfect bodies through joyless fitness regimes, or obsess about property prices. Always, they are looking around anxiously, in the hope that others aren’t doing better than them.
“(It was) full of people who place a high value on money, professional status and appearance,” he said.
“They (Sydneysiders) were like the tin man from the Wizard of Oz. They had no idea of the point of their lives, other than to get rich.”
- http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/we-didnt-say-it-/2007/01/26/1169788693816.html
So perhaps the fascination certain Sydney-based believers have with wealth and health is entirely consistent with the world in which they live. They are, non-intentionally, living relevant, missional Christian lives.
Or perhaps not.
January 27th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Does anyone know what the go is with H$ going into Child Fostering.
They have an info night coming up.
http://www.hillsong.com/church/default.asp?pid=1271
January 27th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Daryl, that is EXACTLY the Sydney i feel i live in.
My 71 yo Dad tells me that when he lived in the inner city in the 70’s, ppl were interested in what you believed, read, watched, experienced, felt.
But since the 80’s, it’s all about what you own, & how you look.
January 27th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
John, re 1569…
I don’t know anything specifically. Perhaps there is a commission in it for Hill$ong. Perhaps it is just some actual christianity shining through. There are christians in Hill$ong and sometimes they get involved in good things.
Why do I suggest this? It is not front and centre. It is just an announcement of an info night. This makes me think it is fair dinkum christian charity in action. If there was money in it it would have a 12 page colourful brochure and a picture of Bobby Brian and Darls on the cover.
January 28th, 2007 at 6:54 am
That is why I look at melbourne a little enviously - it appears to have a brain rather than a body.
January 28th, 2007 at 7:42 am
I must admit that is how Sydney seemed to me at first glance as well, and I am not being judgemental, the reason I noticed and didn’t like it, is it seemed just like Orange County back home in the states.
But to the missional comment, the church is to be counter cultural, and though we should travel the same roads, we should do so in a very different manner. The fact is money and good bodies do not buy fulfilment.
rev
January 28th, 2007 at 10:16 am
I can’t help it if I’m a stunning, fit, money loaded Sydneysider.
January 28th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
I’m not sure the possibility of engaging conversations with the intelligentsia overcomes the disadvantage of such freezing winters… I’ve always lived in Melbourne, but when I visit my Sydney friends in winter I get a little wistful!
Besides, one’s brain can get a workout on the internet these days.
January 28th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
rev said:
“But to the missional comment, the church is to be counter cultural, and though we should travel the same roads, we should do so in a very different manner.”
Good call, mate.
January 29th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Neil,
Maybe their brochures are still being pumpedI out. Christmas was a busy time as most of their slaves were on holidays.
January 29th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
“rev said:
“But to the missional comment, the church is to be counter cultural, and though we should travel the same roads, we should do so in a very different manner.””
Daryl and Rev.. I have to disagree although I agree with the aim of the statement.
The calling of the church is to follow Jesus not to be counter-cultural. If following Jesus leads us to be counter-cultural so be it but to be counter-cultural is not the aim.
January 29th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
^^ Good call Phil.
January 29th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Jesus was counter cultural, and until the kingdom of God has come in its fullness will always be. Counter culture is not the goal, but it is the outcome, always. Following Jesus will lead us to stand with our culture in some aspects, but oppossed to it in many others, we are not to be just theologically different versions of the same thing, but actually salt and light to the world.
rev
January 29th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
1566
Reve Says:
January 23rd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I’ll be going Katharine, already accepted, i’ll see you there!
Great…….looks like we might have a signposts contingent. I guess it might be the first time we get to meet each other face to face.
my only concern is that with 500 people i think that gives me 20 secs with each indvidual…..all in all though i know it will be a great night……for some the first time in a gay venue……and i’m planning a special program with some nice suprises…..some will be the people you didn’t expect to meet there.
January 29th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Rev,
we’re not called to be counter-cultural - we’re called to follow Christ.
Following Christ will be counter-cultural only because we live in a fallen world.
We can’t be “counter cultural” any more than we can be “against the world” - it’s not some independently existing entity, it’s fluid and shaped by us as much as it shapes us. It’s not like you can see it and say “oh, that’s culture”. So how can we be “against” it?
January 29th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Again Rev, agree with your aims but I don’t think it always plays out.
Jesus was not *always* counter-culture in every situation or issue. Following Jesus is above and beyond cultural settings.
If culture says A then being counter culture means B
If culture says A and follow Jesus means A then perhaps being counter-cultural is counter to what we are trying to do.
Splitting hairs? Maybe…. just was bored
January 29th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Phil,
I don’t think it’s splitting hairs. I think it’s important. Too often the story of Jesus is co-opted by lefty hippies (myself included), or it’s co-opted by conservative WWJD wrist-band wearers.
Rudd is right - God isn’t a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Liberal party. But nor is God a wholly-owned subsidiary of tree-hugging, fire-twirling hippies, nor of eastern-suburbs families that drive Porsches.
To say that being counter-cultural is “always” the outcome is as naive as conservatives who say that postmodernity is evil. Like I said above, culture isn’t some “out there”, identifiable, entity. It’s the context in which we live. Rev, to return to your “salt and light” analogy - if there’s enough lights turned on, the room’s not dark. If there’s enough salt in the soup, it tastes good. Following Christ doesn’t mean being “anti light” or “anti taste” - it means that we follow Christ, and the product of that is light and taste. Similarly, following Christ adding/taking away from the culture the things that are dark/not tasty, and adding the things of light/taste.
Oh dear…I’m not sure how much sense that makes….and it sounds really stupid…I’m struggling to explain myself!!
Following Jesus may sometimes lead us to be counter-cultural, but not always - God is omnipotent and the Creator of all, and that includes our culture!
January 29th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
1566 - is there a secret signposts handshake?
January 29th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
I said exactly the same thing, but whatever
rev
January 30th, 2007 at 10:18 am
AVB,
You’re an exciting man.
See you there!
Oh, & you have met me, you’ll recognise me when you see me. I’ll stop by @ F2B this Friday night as i’ll be in the area.
January 30th, 2007 at 11:43 am
rev said: The fact is money and good bodies do not buy fulfilment.
Damn - cause I got one hec of a bod and I’m working on the money
January 30th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
“Members of a Hamilton golf club overlooking a bridge where a 22-year-old Auckland [youth pastor] drowned have expected a tragedy there for years.
[Andrew Atkinson] failed to resurface [Sunday] after jumping from the Airport Rd bridge over the Waikato River during a lunchtime break from the Parachute Christian music festival at nearby Mystery Creek.
His body was recovered by a police dive squad just before 8pm….
…Narrows Golf Club captain John Bridle said up to 50 people a day jumped from the bridge and were often moved on by members. Spectators watched people jump from the bridge’s southern side and cheered as they emerged on the other side.
“We’ve rung the police –- we’ve told kids to get lost. Nothing seems to work. Some days it’s just so scary. People have pulled up and stopped on the bridge to tell the kids not to jump. You hear the brakes of vehicles behind them and you just know one day something terrible is going to happen,” Mr Bridle said.
Club members often moved to the other side of the clubhouse rather than watch people jump.
Up to 40 people jumped from the bridge on Saturday.
Parachute’s Sunday Super Service ground to a halt when organisers told 27,500 festival-goers the man’s body had been recovered from the river. Swimming in the river is not allowed under festival rules.
Paul de Jong, pastor at Christian Life Centre in Auckland and brother of festival chief executive Mark de Jong, said friends who had been with the man when he failed to resurface were comforted before returning to Auckland.
Mr de Jong led a short prayer before Darlene Zschech and the Hillsong Worship Team continued the service.
Later that night the crowd rocked to America worship band Third Day, but the mood was dampened when the heavens opened shortly before midnight when Dave Dobbyn took to the stage. The festival was also halted for a few minutes yesterday morning when power was cut at the Mystery Creek site, interrupting the Parachute Band’s morning meeting.
Despite the record numbers attending the 16th festival, Sergeant Gordon Grantham, of Cambridge police, said the crowd had been the best behaved yet. One person was sent home on Friday, having arrived drunk, and about six festival-goers were refused entry because they were carrying alcohol. Parachute is alcohol and drug-free.
From http://www.stuff.co.nz/3944210a11.html with updated info in [ ]
January 30th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Why is that (post 1589) of interest to this thread?