hillsongs - the next installment
As the comments in two weeks have gone beyond 500 comments - here is the new thread..
Search
Author
Signposts is the personal website of Phil and Dan McCredden. We are involved in leadership at Northern Community.
You can also get Signposts via RSS
Pages
Categories
- admin (17)
- blogosphere (115)
- book of the month (4)
- books and dvd's (31)
- bumping uglies (12)
- campaign 2004 (23)
- challenges for the church (436)
- chat (28)
- chicks in church (7)
- Christmas (12)
- election 2007 (2)
- environment (1)
- events (1)
- Forge (52)
- geek talk (51)
- General (5)
- Geoff Bullock (21)
- glurge (3)
- god as santa (3)
- God politics (25)
- guest posters (6)
- Hillsong (12)
- iraq (70)
- kaleo (3)
- leadership (6)
- Liquid (7)
- Mark for Lent 2006 (43)
- mDNA (51)
- notes from northern (59)
- NT for Lent (21)
- oz politics and society (140)
- poetry and writings (17)
- polls (1)
- quotes (34)
- random musings (125)
- reciprocal links (31)
- religious vilification laws (5)
- songs (3)
- spirituality and prayers (46)
- the good book (19)
- the kitchen garden (1)
- the money jar (14)
- theologically speaking (33)
- those wacky christians (5)
- Unfreezing Moves (14)
- us (154)
- wise words (44)
- World Affairs (84)
Recent entries
February 21st, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Fair call Janet, I wish to play the man not the ball to use a sexist sporting analogy. I’ve not seen this level of brazenness before of “here’s our wish list - help us make it happen” appeal to whoever is out there.
Fair enough if you want to build a church, and have all those things. ?Incrementally any outift improves its level of equipemtn etc as they grow. This overnight style of setting up a church in such a public way warrants debate.
The fact that they are openly trawling through existing churches to attract Christians is also worthy of a rant.
If they have faith, rather than put a wish list totalling hundreds of thousands of dollars out, why not have enough faith to plant a church that will actually bring unbelievers into belief and build from there? Now there’s a unique concept!
Only problem is its a lot harder than simply stealing other christians away from existing churches and getting them to cough up the dosh here and now.
If you want big faith why not pray for the phenomenon of the early church at pentecost?
Comments have been made earlier about the musical pedigree of at elast two of the pastors. Fair enough, but I thought the primary attraction of a church was Jesus?
February 21st, 2007 at 10:46 pm
From David Evan’s website:
http://www.davidevansministries.com/Partner.html
I have prayed that whoever ends up at this page will be drawn here by the Holy Spirit. God sets up our destiny and by His authority He turns our hearts towards His interests even the hearts of Kings. I know that God has brought you to this site because He has made a major investment in this ministry and that right now He may intend to use you as his arm of blessing.
On the right you have a fast option of making a one off donation or you may wish to invest a regular monthly offering. You can cancel your automatic payment anytime. This fast internet service is available for these options.
For a more formal registration to partner with this ministry please register here. It may not be financial but we consider everything a blessing.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Lance you said:
Hmmm…interesting.
When you email ‘hischurch’ at the contact address provided info@hischurch.com.au ..it bounces straight back and says ‘Sorry, no mailbox here by that name’.
So hischurch is different…the first church in Australia that doesn’t actually exist.
Try the following:
mailto:jj@johnjames.com
February 21st, 2007 at 11:01 pm
Hmmm … Zulu I’m with you on this one these guys are not amateurs!
http://www.hischurch.com.au/gettingconnected.html
Want to become a Covenant Partner? Here’s how to do just that:
STEP 1:
Attend “The Heart of His Church introductory class” This is a one-and-a-half-hour Sunday class over a meal designed to provide an quick overview of the church’s history, vision, and structure.
STEP 2:
Attend “The Heart of His Church - Covenant Partnership classes” If you want to become a member of His Church we require you to attend a series of classes designed to explore the basics of covenant relationship, with an emphasis on “the Heart of His Church” covenant.
STEP 3:
Meet With your new Life coach. If you are not yet involved in a Doma Team, we will contact you to set up a meeting with a life coach.
STEP 4:
Attend “Discover Your Spiritual Gifts” (Optional) This is a two-week class designed to help believers begin to understand, identify, and make use of their spiritual gifts. Class dates are announced in the newsletter and on the church web site.
STEP 5:
Submit a Covenant Partner Questionnaire. The questionnaire may be downloaded, printed, filled out and and mailed or faxed to any of our leaders.
STEP 6:
Attend a Covenant Induction Service. You’ll get introduced to he church on stage one Sunday - You’ll recite the covenant vows. The Church elders pray for and commission you. At this point, you become a Covenant Partner, and it’s time to celebrate your entrance into the His church community!
STEP 7:
Attend the Annual Covenant Partner Meetings
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:22 am
STEP 8
Receive your Spandex Jacket (one for everyone) with special Covenant logo. Sit down with your life coach, wait for the mother ship and kiss yo’ ass goodbye.
This is definitely a wind up, I knew they were a bit slow in Queensland but this is straight out of Johville.
But wait, this ‘covenant’ smells a little of the U.S.A Can’t think of the super pastor’s name.
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:11 am
I’ve been watching tv after reading hischurch site, thanks Jack.
Now I know where they got the catchy phrases and kooky zany guy look in the ‘ministers’ page……they must be 3rd Rock From The Sun fans………………….I love dots…………..oooh that feels gooood…………………..’Don’t keep your life to yourself’………………’Church is really about being part of a family…..ooohh yessss……. Members who enter into a covenant with their local church are called to a higher degree of responsibility and service….. wweeeee………….
get me chocolate….NOW!
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:29 am
Zulu said:
“The fact that they are openly trawling through existing churches to attract Christians is also worthy of a rant.”
That reminds me of a (satirical) article I’ve read over at Lark News:
———————
Youth Groups Recruit ‘Superstar’ Kids
At a Wednesday night youth meeting at First Assembly of God church, William Harbane stands in the back watching a hundred kids worship. A student-led band plays music. Some of the teens seem uninterested, but others worship with abandon, clutching their chests, throwing open palms skyward as they sing.
One girl on the front row sinks to her knees and bobs gently up and down, eyes clenched, hands raised. Harbane nods.
“That’s the move, right there,” he says, jotting notes in a small notepad. After service he approaches the 16-year-old girl, asks her a few questions about her lifestyle and then extends a personal invitation to her from another local church which is aggressively seeking new members for its youth group. That church, which Harbane refuses to name, hired him to recruit “superstar” youth group members.
After she is gone, he raves about the evening’s find.
“She’s as good a combo as you’re going to get,” he says. “Does short-term missions trips, volunteers in the junior high mid-week service, a sold-out worshiper. Looks good, talks clean. She’s a ten.”
Over the next few weeks, Harbane will follow up with a welcome packet from the other church, offer to bring her to youth service in a limousine, and talk up the church’s college scholarships.
Harbane is part of a growing number of Christian youth group scouts who are hired to recruit the best youth in their communities. So-called “superstar youths” live clean, dress and act hip, draw other kids to the youth group and give the group that “glow of energy and authenticity,” says one youth pastor who has hired youth group scouts, but declines to give his name.
“Ultimately, you want to pull more people to your group. You want to grow your church,” he says. “You want the pastor to tell the Sunday morning crowd how great the youth group is doing. You want to be known as The Place in town for Christian young people.”
- read the rest of the article at
http://www.larknews.com/september_2004/secondary_deaf.php?page=1
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:29 am
“A conservative News Limited columnist was paid more than $11,000 of taxpayers’ money to write speeches for Foreign Minister Alexander Downer.
The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) outsourced several ministerial speeches, including a July 2005 address to the Hillsong Church in Sydney, to a recruitment firm that engaged columnist Christopher Pearson to write them, Fairfax newspapers reported.
Mr Pearson was paid $11,364 by the government for the speeches.
Other speeches written for Mr Downer by Mr Pearson included inter-faith dialogue, terrorism, regional foreign policy challenges, and economic and environmental issues, the report said.
DFAT reported the payments at a Senate estimates hearing last week, but the department refused to pay for one Pearson speech - Mr Downer’s May 2005 Earl Page lecture in which he accused Labor of appeasing Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein.
DFAT’s assistant secretary told the hearing the speech breached DFAT’s apolitical speech guidelines.
Pearson is a former speechwriter for Prime Minister John Howard and writes on national politics and foreign affairs in the Weekend Australian.”
From http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Columnist-wrote-Downer-speeches-report/2007/02/22/1171733876234.html
“Senator FAULKNER—It is just scandalous, it really is.
Senator ROBERT RAY—Wasn’t Andrew Bolt available, or Greg Sheridan, or Piers Akerman? Christopher Pearson got paid $4,550 to write a speech for Alexander Downer for Hillsong!”
From http://parlinfoweb.aph.gov.au/piweb/view_document.aspx?id=102402&table=ESTIMATE
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:52 pm
This “His Church” definitely seems full of itself, it looks like they want to be the next big thing and sell lots of music CD’s, have an AWESOME ‘music ministry’ and all the rest. Not my cup of tea at all, but you have got to give credit where credit is due, it is indeed positive to come across a Penty Church that has officially give the Tithe the flick! And have ditched the hard sell weekly money sermon. That is quite astounding.
Now if they can also be welcoming and accepting of gay and lesbian churchgoers, accountable, honest and transperant with their wages and finances then we will really be making progress!!
February 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pm
“you have got to give credit where credit is due, it is indeed positive to come across a Penty Church that has officially give the Tithe the flick! And have ditched the hard sell weekly money sermon. That is quite astounding.”
Couldn’t agree more.
It is so much a part of the penty movement..and also now seeping into former solid churches..that to buck the trend and piss into the wind is quite remarkable.
February 22nd, 2007 at 4:58 pm
“He (God) has made a major investment in this ministry”
Sorry, my attempts to be sympathetic have just been strangled at the point.
God as an investment banker… isn’t making God in our own image blasphemous?
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 pm
It might be worth taking a look here …
http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/music/john_james_the_newsboys_exlead_singer_speaks_about_his_fall_and_restoration/25790/p1/
If this guys for real, he may just be getting exploited. The jury’s still out!
Jack
February 23rd, 2007 at 12:32 am
I’ve just started reading this site and there is some very interesting stuff here. This whole “His Church” thing is sureal. I use to live in the bible belt of Brisvegas and attended Garden City for a year or so, and my inlaws currently attend Citypoint (formally Mansfield COC, or the ‘mothership’ as i like to call it). I havn’t asked them if they know of it yet but am curious to know if they have.
Anyway, I had a quick look at there website and 2 things (out of a number) stuck out for me.
1st, their vision is incredibly arrogant. To quote,
“Our vision is that we’re to become the next link in the chain of Gods divine purpose to bring about world wide evangelistic reforms in His church so that Christ’s redemptive purposes can be accomplished at a rate unparalleled in History speeding up His return.”
“at a rate unparalleled in History”, I’m sorry, but what a TOOL!
2nd, according to their values (value 2) they value His Kingdom. It always amazes me when christians (espaecially those in mega churches, and it seems, aspiring mega churches) talk about being Kingdom builders, or Kingdom churches. If they truelly valued the Kingdom of God, they wouldn’t be designing a church to intise other chirstians away from their existing church to join theirs. True Kingdom builders would be happy that other christians are connected to any church, and would be actively engaging with their local community to bring them the Gospel in a culturally relevant way. This would truely build the Kingdom, rather than taking from someone elses ‘kingdom’.
February 23rd, 2007 at 2:31 am
“speeding up His return.”
Then there’s the arrogance of manipulating God’s timetable… without our fine work in planting a church in Brisbane, Christ’s purposes in the world would be acheived at a most unsatisfactory rate.
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:06 am
Memories of hillsong,
Just what is meaningful conversation?
Is it full of meaning or mean on fullness?
You shook my hand and made the moves
But you were moving on
Before I spoke or tried to reach
You were already gone
We’ll never meet along this path
I don’t think you like me, oh the agony
Of having to pretend
I let you win, it’s ok, and it doesn’t mean we’ve lost
I’m sorry if my being there cramps your style
But try to soften up
Winning is a subtle ploy
It can make you lose while everyone is watching
Success can be a fleeting joy, especially
If you like winning
I’d really like to know you more,
But heresy prevents me
aaah, another beautiful day of freedom from control freaks, religious plotters and planners and money scammers. I’ll bet the ‘covenant’ agreement includes a little guaranteed income for hisong ‘ministers’. I’d be surprised at them giving up tithing adherance without a backup plan to maintain the lifestyle.
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:08 am
oops. i mixed up hischurch with hisong. oh well, same as.
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:31 am
I’ve been back over the Newsboys ‘Take Me To Your Leader’ album since talk of JJ has come up. There’s a great song on there called ‘Lost The Plot’.
When you come back again
would you bring me something from the fridge?
Heard a rumour that the end is near
but I just got comfortable here.
sigh.
Let’s be blunt.
I’m a little distracted.
What do you want?
Headaches and bad faith
are all that I’ve got.
First I misplaced the ending
then I lost the plot.
Out among the free-range sheep
while the big birds sharpen their claws.
For a time we stuck with the shepherd
but you wouldn’t play Santa Claus.
sigh.
Let’s be blunt.
We’re a little distracted.
What do you want?
Once we could follow,
now we cannot.
You would not fit our image,
so we lost the plot.
Once we could hear you,
now our senses are shot.
We’ve forgotten our first love.
We have lost the plot.
When I saw you for the first time
you were hanging with a thief
And I knew my hands were dirty,
and I dropped my gaze.
Then you said I was forgiven
and you welcomed me with laughter.
I was happy ever after.
I was counting the days
when you’d come back again.
we’ll be waiting for you
When you comin’ back again?
we’ll be ready for you
Maybe we’ll wake up when…
maybe we’ll wake up when
you come back again.
lies.
Let’s be blunt.
We’re a little unfaithful.
What do you want?
Are you still listening?
`Cause we’re obviously not
We’ve forgotten our first love
We have lost the plot.
And why are you still calling?
You forgave, we forgot.
We’re such experts at stalling
that we’ve lost the plot.
lost the plot
When you come back again
would you bring me something from the fridge?
Heard a rumour that the end is near
but I just got comfortable here.
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:42 am
I was listening to that song this morning on the bus. Usually I’d be listening to Rammstein, Korn, Metallica or Slipknot, but there’s something about that song that makes me constantly want to listen to it. It’s easily my favourite Newsboys song.
February 23rd, 2007 at 8:07 pm
People in Glass Houses by Tanya Levine
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Hp8gN9wBC0QJ:www.allenandunwin.com/Shopping/ProductDetails.aspx%3FISBN%3D9781741148251+%22tanya+levin%22+and+hillsong&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au
February 24th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Thanks Katherine!
I had wondered what the front cover would look like! This book is going to be a dynamo! I’m already intrigued by the chapter list!
If Tanya is monitoring this blog - Signposters want to attend you’re Australian Launch!
February 25th, 2007 at 3:08 am
“Darlene Zschech led worship (and she winked at me!!)”
Lifting Heavy Things for Jesus.
From http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=72903370&blogID=231984974
“My Ministry Roles at Hillsong
The second week of classes has begun and little by little I’m settling in for the year. Internet is going to be readily available in our condo sometime in the near future. THAT day will be a BLESSED day! hahaha… I enjoy the walk to the library tho. And it’s nice to have a cheap reason to get out of the house other than going to school or church.
As part of our school curriculum, we are required to serve/volunteer in two weekend services, and be involved in one ministry during the week. When we go to serve in these ministries, the leader signs a piece of paper which we hand in every Thursday to our prof and we get the credit for the hours we have put in. Hillsong church has 5 weekend services (1 sat pm, 2 sun am, 1 sun pm), and there are many ministries that we can serve in during any one of these services (kids church, nursery, choir, pastoral attendant, tv and media, production, dance, ushers, greeters, coffee cart servers, etc). The school selects which ministry we’re rostered on for, what our call time is, and how many hours it lasts for.
Prior to arriving at Hillsong, I was informed by college that because I am a vocal music major, I would be rostered on to serve in choir for two weekend church services. However, I have been rostered into a ministry called “Lock and Load” instead. No guns are involved in this ministry whatsoever, by the way. Lock and Load is a fancy name for “Here, put this massive stage together, and move these curtains.” To make a long and slightly complicated story far shorter than it could be, Hillsong is growing. (Shocker, eh?! HA!) So what they’re doing is moving one of their smaller services into their larger auditorium in the “Convention Centre”, but trying to keep the atmosphere intimate. In order to do this, they are constructing a stage out in them middle of the auditorium floor, and moving the curtains from the back wall forward. This eliminates somewhere around 1,000 seats, and makes the larger auditorium feel much smaller… they call this smaller space “Theatre Mode” and the larger space “Convention Mode”. The AM services are in Convention Mode and the PM services are in Theatre Mode. So the Lock and Load team (that’s where I come in!) arrive just after the second Sunday AM service, and transform the auditorium from Convention Mode to Theatre Mode for the smaller Sunday night services… does that all make sense? As the church grows, and the Sunday night service attendance increases, we will move the curtains and stage further and further back, until they are back against the wall and in Convention Mode. It’s a brilliant idea. And it will be even more brilliant once they get the whole system motorized. For now, it’s a series of pulleys and a whole team of people to move the massive rigging on the ceiling, the curtains, the screens, and the stage.
Now… as hard as this sounds, it only takes us about 1.5 hours to complete it. AND it counts as BOTH of my weekend ministry requirements! Sweet, eh?! If I were in choir, I would have to be at church for 7am most Sundays, and stay for close to 6 hours. I have lucked out for now. I still sing in the choir, but do it voluntarily over and above my weekend ministry requirements.
Last night, the first Sunday night in Theatre Mode, I got to sing in the choir. Darlene Zschech led worship (and she winked at me!!) with Joel Houston and Jad Gillies at her side. They taught the church a new song as well. I sang with the choir for both the 5pm and 7pm services. It was uplifting and powerful. I love it here!
As for my weekly ministry requirement, I do that on Thursday afternoons. I’ll be working with a pastor (they have MANY pastors… MANY!) named Brenden Brown. He oversees all of the details of one weekend service. I’ll be his right hand man for the next 12 weeks, and maybe beyond who knows. I start with him this Thursday. I’m really looking forward to it!
Lots of this lock and load stuff sounds complicated and I would love to provide pictures, but I’m having some difficulty doing so at the moment. My camera and my laptop aren’t cooperating the greatest, plus it takes so long to upload stuff on the library’s slow internet connection, plus my MAC laptop won’t allow me to load pictures directly into my blogs like my home PC would. I am working on solutions to these problems - the best of which is getting internet into our condo so I can do this stuff from home rather than here at the library.
Thanks too, for all of you who wrote letters for my good-bye book. I still read them every now and then. The verses you gave me and the encouraging words you all said help keep me focussed on my purpose here. I am in God’s hands and continue to look to him for all that I need.
BLESSINGS, YO!
Kellen”
February 25th, 2007 at 3:17 am
“they’re talking about planting Hillsong Capetown in South Africa… HOW AMAZING IS THAT?!”
From http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=97874899&blogID=230691594
February 25th, 2007 at 3:21 am
“Point Of Difference
I’m noticing a real shift in direction of what churches are communicating to its people particularly to christians. Over the last 3 months ive watched Hillsong again pave the way with radical change. Lets face it Hillsong are the trendsetters, simply because there at the front of what God is doing in churches in Australia. Already i watch the other great churches around following suit, such as Planetshakers City Church, Riverview, Lakes, Oxford Falls, Paradise, etc
They have moved away from preaching ‘prosperity’, ‘favour’, 10ways to live a purposeful life, not that theres anything wrong with those, but now they are definatly preaching the simplicity of the Gospel at its foundational level, that being “LOVE”, and furthermore relationship.
This is a consistent trend in there church not just from the pulpit, their youth ministries are breeding young people not just radical for praise and worship, but radical about being love to the world. At their combined youth conference encounterfest last october they Launched “The I Heart Revolution” a 3 part project that personifies this shift in the church towards love. It comprises of the new studio album “All of the Above”, the I Heart Revolution, and an unannounced under 21’s project.
At the encounterfest conference revolution started, instead of spending their time praising and worshiping, or listening to inspiring preachers, some 4000 young people descended on there local high school and totally transformed it, painting dead walls, rebuilding playgrounds, resourcing teachers. How awesome,
Im so tired of Christians who are so focused on getting there own fix from church, that they forget the reason for church and the heart of God.
As I am listening to the new studio album ‘All Of The Above’ the shift is evedent even in there music.
So used to hearing anthems like “Take It All”, Tell The World, Mighty to save. These new songs are singing a new song, I think best personified by Joel Houston’s, “The Solution” honestly one of the best Hillsong songs ive ever heard. as I listened to it these words jumped out of the music and grabbed me
“It is not to far a cry to merge to try to help the least today
Politics will not decided if we should rise and be your hands and feet”
“Hey Now Fill Our Hearts With Your Compassion”
Hey Now As We Hold To Our Confession
or maybe the song Point Of Difference
“In our world this thing will be the difference”
From
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=37883405&blogID=230669755
February 25th, 2007 at 3:24 am
Hillsong Church Is Not Built On The Talents Of A Few, But On The Sacrifice Of Many.
“When Pastor Brian Houston (can I just call him Brian? Would that be wrong?) took the pulpit and asked us to bow our heads to pray before he delivered the message, I closed my eyes and there I went, FF to the future. I was no longer in [Phoenix First Assembly]. I was sitting in …..Hillsong Church….in Sydney….it was very bizarre but very exciting! I was practicing to see with the eyes of faith.
His message was awesome and something that is very dear to my heart, unity. No wonder God is sending me to Hillsong. Pastor Houston said something that echoes in my spirit, he said: ‘Hillsong Church is not built on the talents of a few but on the sacrifice of many.’ That is truth. That is unity. That is my kind of church!”
From http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=111227521&blogID=228027040
February 26th, 2007 at 3:08 am
‘Hillsong Church Is Not Built On The Talents Of A Few, But On The Sacrifice Of Many.’
Yes that’s right, a huge parasitic trogolodytic juggernaut swallowing up and devouring thousands of pure hearts, talents, gifts, dreams and dollars in order to perpetuate the careers and family fortunes of a few. It had a chance years ago to do it differently and create something new, but it became just another business using peoples love of God to germinate and grow a niche market.
“When Pastor Brian Houston (can I just call him Brian? Would that be wrong?)
Why not, he’s only a man ! Read your bible you jerk !
February 26th, 2007 at 6:24 am
It’s simple…
1Peter 1:7,8
..That the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honour and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, WHOM HAVING NOT SEEN, YOU LOVE. Though now you do not see him, yet believeing you rejoice with inexpressible joy.
WHY? Why do I love him?
Because I read about him in the bible and he seemed like a really nice person.
What was written about him was only good with every positive trait a person can have.
I believed what I read when he said he loved me, so I gave my love - heart to him.
His treatment of me has made such a deep impression that no matter what happens his love remains constant, trustworthy and reassuring.
When he saw that I believed in him and trusted him he proved himself to me in ways that were personal and specific to me, reinforcing my belief in him.
I loved him before I went to hs, I loved him despite being at hs, I still love him now that I’m free from church altogether….
There’s more to life than catching a wink from DZ, or working 6 hours in a choir or labouring free for a ‘church’ or travelling half way round the world to pay money to hear a stranger tell you his plans. It’s all a distraction from the pure simple joy of being in love.
February 26th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
“I had wondered what the front cover would look like! This book is going to be a dynamo! I’m already intrigued by the chapter list!
If Tanya is monitoring this blog - Signposters want to attend you’re Australian Launch!”
I would be careful with that you believe from this book. I don’t entirely agree with what Hillsong does but this woman is just looking to cash in on Hillsong and her bitterness. She’s even returned to Hillsong a few times to disrupt their services and abused people around her which is the reason she’s not welcome there. She lives her life trying to discredit Hillsong and takes every opportunity to, and to go as far as writing a book about it is pretty sad in my opinion. There’s a right way of doing things but being a nuisance and making a book like this is not the right way.
February 26th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Bruce,
Methinks that Allen & Unwin publishers are experienced in checking the facts claimed by their authors. They are a business, & being a business means having the sense not to risk being sued when your “talent” turns out to be a crazy woman!
I really don’t think they would have taken the chance with something like this when they are aware of the financial & legal recources of Hillsong to retaliate with a lawsuit.
Knowing this, i think, is the best evidence we can have that whatever claims she makes in the book are accurate.
One other thing : “cash in on Hillsong and her bitterness” ? Telling one’s story can be a very liberating & therapeutic action, & part of that is being more interested in telling the truth of your experience than fearing repercussions. You would deny this woman that?
It set Anthony Venn-Brown free & if Geoff Bullock were to do the same, he might alleviate much of the residual dystress he fels also. I call it the “forcible humanising of people who think their crap hath no odour”.
It’s not putting people down, it’s removing hypocrisy & bringing those whom have harmed us (even accidentally) back down to earth with the rest of us. A levelling of the ego’s.
Come on Bruce, how else would it happen in this unrealistic ideal world of yours?
February 26th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
‘I would be careful with that you believe from this book. I don’t entirely agree with what Hillsong does but this woman is just looking to cash in on Hillsong and her bitterness. She’s even returned to Hillsong a few times to disrupt their services and abused people around her which is the reason she’s not welcome there. She lives her life trying to discredit Hillsong and takes every opportunity to, and to go as far as writing a book about it is pretty sad in my opinion. There’s a right way of doing things but being a nuisance and making a book like this is not the right way.’
Anyway Bruce, what is your problem with people writing books to cash in on the church or christians, go to koorong and check out thousands of volumes doing the very same thing, cashing in on christianity. It’s ok for houston’s wife to write a book cashing in on christian women’s gullibility and plagiarising a famous hollywood oneliner to garner more appeal and increase her ‘naughty’ factor, it’s ok for houston to write books cashing in on christian greed, it’s ok for mesiti to write books cashing in on the latest fashion around at the time, this tanya is just doing the same thing, like avb, you don’t like it because you don’t want to see hs portrayed in an unpleasant light.
The ‘bitterness’ line you used is pure houston, from proverbs..the root of bitterness defiles many..he always uses that verse to discredit any person who might have been hurt by him. Of course he would never look so far into the ground to find that the root of any bitterness has been planted by himself by his cold exploitation of the people he needs so much. What he defines as the root is actually the fruit of the bitterness he has sown.
nevertheless Bruce, thankyou for the warning, never fear, signposts is full of people who will correctly analyze the book, please forgive me suggesting to you that you analyze more closely the words coming from the church you respect so much and have to defend.
February 26th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Mungo, WOW, you assume a lot based on such a small post. Where did I say it was wrong to make money from a book? Where did I say I didn’t want to see hillsong portrayed in an unpleasent light? Where did I defend Hillsong? It’s amusing how both of you seem to label me a Hillsong supporter as soon as I disagree with a post. Seriously, get over the we are right, everyone else is wrong attitude. I don’t like the Houston’s books much at all but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you.
Reve, your comment about the publishers checking facts, I would be very surprised if you actually believed that because it never stopped anyone in the media from rubbishing churches before. You can’t assume everything to be accurate just because it’s been published. She knows Hillsong won’t sue because it’s not their style.
I know people can have good reason to be bitter but this particular person is quite disrespectful and doing stuff like disrupting services and abusing church members isn’t helping her cause at all.
If Geoff Bullock was to write a book I’d have no problem with it. I respect him and he’s a totally different case, he hasn’t gone out of his way to throw mud at the church like this woman and I’m sure the book would be a good read.
“who will correctly analyze the book”
Wow you guys are pretentious. I’m sorry I even posted here. So long..