hillsongs - the next installment
As the comments in two weeks have gone beyond 500 comments - here is the new thread..
Search
Author
Signposts is the personal website of Phil and Dan McCredden. We are involved in leadership at Northern Community.
You can also get Signposts via RSS
Pages
Categories
- admin (17)
- blogosphere (115)
- book of the month (4)
- books and dvd's (31)
- bumping uglies (12)
- campaign 2004 (23)
- challenges for the church (436)
- chat (28)
- chicks in church (7)
- Christmas (12)
- election 2007 (2)
- environment (1)
- events (1)
- Forge (52)
- geek talk (51)
- General (5)
- Geoff Bullock (21)
- glurge (3)
- god as santa (3)
- God politics (25)
- guest posters (6)
- Hillsong (12)
- iraq (70)
- kaleo (3)
- leadership (6)
- Liquid (7)
- Mark for Lent 2006 (43)
- mDNA (51)
- notes from northern (59)
- NT for Lent (21)
- oz politics and society (140)
- poetry and writings (17)
- polls (1)
- quotes (34)
- random musings (125)
- reciprocal links (31)
- religious vilification laws (5)
- songs (3)
- spirituality and prayers (46)
- the good book (19)
- the kitchen garden (1)
- the money jar (14)
- theologically speaking (33)
- those wacky christians (5)
- Unfreezing Moves (14)
- us (154)
- wise words (44)
- World Affairs (84)
Recent entries
February 26th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
‘Mungo, WOW, you assume a lot based on such a small post. Where did I say it was wrong to make money from a book? Where did I say I didn’t want to see hillsong portrayed in an unpleasent light? Where did I defend Hillsong? It’s amusing how both of you seem to label me a Hillsong supporter as soon as I disagree with a post. Seriously, get over the we are right, everyone else is wrong attitude. I don’t like the Houston’s books much at all but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you.’
Read your own post to see the answers to all your questions. What I find objectionable about your post is the patronising attitude you have.
‘ There’s a right way of doing things but being a nuisance and making a book like this is not the right way’
Just what is the right way ? Instead, ask youself the question why does this person need to go to such extremes to make her voice heard? Where in her experience at hs did she change from an ordinary christian into a person with an issue?, what happened? Why do you align yourself with the ‘don’t make a fuss’ bench. Being a nuisance indeed! I don’t care whether or not you like houston’s books, just don’t tell me someone else doesn’t have a right to publish because you think she is a nuisance.
Anyway Bruce, what’s the matter with a little abuse? it ain’t the end of the world, even God raises his voice, even Jesus lost the plot at the temple, ‘Get A Life’….oops, product placement… I s’pose you won’t even read this post seeing as how you’ve gone.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
I think what Bruce meant regarding the nuisance line is that Ms Levin has deliberately gone in to Hillsong services and caused a scene. (I don’t know if that’s true or not, just my interpretation). Consider if I rocked up to an AVB book signing and started banging on about poofs and lezos just because I had issues with him! (and before you all pounce, the poofs and lezos line is to illustrate the point, ok people? illustration only!)
So, if that were the case, it would indeed appear that Ms Levin has a major axe to grind and could therefore be *seen* to be more than just someone who feels they need to see the truth told. One wonders if the book is her exorcising her demons or just being good old fashioned vindictive. That’s something only Ms Levin herself will know. I think Bruce has a few good points but so do the rest. Just maybe don’t pounce on him so hard so soon???? FWIW i didn’t feel patronised by his post.
February 26th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
1832
Fair Enough.
February 26th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
“She knows Hillsong won’t sue because it’s not their style.”
So Hill$ong sends out threatening lawyers’ letters ….because……..?
“THE NSW MP who alleged in parliament that Hillsong Church’s benevolent
arm had misused a huge federal grant aimed at Aborigines has offered to
censor himself to avoid a potentially massive lawsuit.
But Labor MP Ian West has refused demands made through Hillsong Emerge’s lawyers that he give up his right to speak on the issue in parliament.”
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18964887-421,00.html
February 26th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
I can’t believe that we’re still needing to explode the myth that the people who run Hill$ong are nice cuddly bunnies.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:55 am
Breaking News (in the words of Lionfish…’made you look dirty chook’)
“Printer backs off Hillsong
PUBLISHER Allen & Unwin has dropped a book on the controversial Hillsong church from this year’s book list. No reason has been given, but it’s likely that legal problems got in the way. Earlier, the book by Sydney writer Tanya Levin was promoted as the “powerful, personal and provocative inside story of Hillsong – the country’s most ambitious and influential religious corporation – from a woman who grew up in the church but ultimately left the fundamentalism she was born into”.
From http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21291689-25090,00.html
February 27th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Surprise Surpise!
February 27th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
More here:
http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=229556
February 27th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Re: The WIthdrawl Of Tanya’s Book.
That is dissapointing …
I have in my possesion chapter of the manuscript that Tanya sent me a year or so a go on the Financial model of the Church and the speaking circuit.
I was asked not to disclose its contents pending publication - (I will honour that request) but her allegations were aligned with my own invetsigations and experiences re: the speaking circuit and flow of money. She just had more ‘inside information’.
I do not think this will be the last of this. I am sure the manuscript may be picked up by 60 minutes or something.
I will endeavour to contact Tanya and find out what is going on.
Hopefully she may now even give me permission to publish the Chapter on Signposts sometime into the future.
February 28th, 2007 at 8:11 am
The email address i have contacted her on before is suddenly not working - bounced back by postmaster - did you have this experience Lion? I know Katherine’s email wasn’t returned either - ominous.
Hope she hasn’t been gaggged in some kind of legal order.
February 28th, 2007 at 11:31 am
I’m just wondering if there’s anything we can do to support or assist Tanya. Any ideas?
February 28th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Yes, i don’t think her efforts should amount to nothing.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Lets get her to publish her book via SIgnposts!
February 28th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Great idea, then let Hillsong sue Phil & Dan. I’m sure they’ll be able to cope with the lawsuit better than Tania’s publisher.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
She can publish it herself through a company she set’s up at arm’s length….perhaps get a few supporters with no assets to be the directors.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
You don’t need a publisher in the new millenium. Check out http://www.lulu.com
You don’t even need a costly promo tour and advertising either if your book is noteworthy enough to generate its own publicity. I would argue that this one is, and hasa already a momentum of its own. New of its availability will spread virally. Signposts will certainly do its bit I’m sure, as will many other sites.
The fact that the publishers have pulled out only adds more weight to its newsworthiness. Unfortunately she may need to count the cost from Hill$ongs law suits, but having gone so far already maybe she would be willing to press ahead?
February 28th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
If Tanya used Lulu and published it as an e-book then the coverage may well be wider and more effective than a paperback version. I am sure the manuscript will not go to waste.
Hillsong will not sue for the same reason Phil Baker will not sue Lance for calling him a liar ..there is ample evidence to support that as fact (even on this blog! ). The biggest risk cited by Allen and Unwin is that they may be sued, however, Hillsong would have to face the fallout and the negative media publicity (A Current Affair, 60 Minutes, etc) and the real story getting out. I do not believe that they would sue, and would not discount the possibility that a brown paper bag may have exchanged hands over a late lunch… you never know.
On a more positive note, I have my DVD copy of ‘Suffer the Children’ by Trevor Glass. He is now reviewing it and adding ‘more local content’. It is good and this will reveal more about the tactics of the Word Of faith movement (which Riverview and Victory Life) here in Perth have deep roots in.
It clearly demonstrates the difference between WOF doctrine and Orthodox Christianity and how these Churches operate as family owned Businesses.
It is a real eye opener, and his soon to be released revised version (he is making some changes based on feedback) will be even more potent.
I will write a review soon when he has clarified how people will be able to access the movie.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
“Hillsong in Moscow.
Long-awaited opening of Hillsong service in Moscow on the 1st of March 2007.
—
Dear friends…
After many years of prayers and preparations, we are enormously happy to announce the opening of Hillsong service in Moscow. For some years ago God has placed a dream into our hearts that it is possible to build one church in two different cities and two different countries. Even though from people’s point of view it is impossible, we don’t doubt that with God ALL THINGS are possible!
There are lots of awesome churches in Moscow that spread the Kingdom of God. Nevertheless there is still a great need in a live church for young progressive generation. Moscow is an amazing city with centuries-old history and traditions that we need to value and respect. However only modern methods can reach and transform a modern person, change the worldview, and equip for leadership and influence in every sphere of life.
We invite you for the first HILLSONG NIGHT in Moscow and we trust that having accepted our invitation you will be very blessed.
With love, Kasevich family”
http://www.hillsong.com.ua/eng/ministries_moscow/index.html
February 28th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
“Zhenya and Vera Kasevich are the senior pastors of the influential and dynamic Hillsong Church in Kiev, Ukraine. Hillsong Church Kiev was opened on the 4th October 1992 and Zhenya and Vera were amongst the first in the church to give their lives to Christ. They began a journey of personal growth in God along with the growth of this young church. From their very first days as believers they began their ministry in the worship team, having no idea that God, in fact, was preparing them to become the senior pastors of the church. In 1997, only 5 years after their salvation, Zhenya and Vera were anointed and appointed as the senior pastors of Hillsong Church Kiev.”
http://www.hillsong.com.ua/eng/pastors/index.html
February 28th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I think you’re assuming an awful lot there LF, but I guess only time will tell. I would expect a large publishing house would have a dedicated team of legal advisers, given that they deal in the printed word, fiction and non. If they are backing away then there’s good reason to suspect anyone who attempts to publish the book may meet some resistance. At least with a publisher, Tania had some sort of buffer between her and any legal fallout. That cushion is gone if she decides to go it alone. No matter where it is published, online or physically, it will still be subject to the same (alleged) lawsuit. I just can’t see a publishing powerhouse dropping it for no apparent reason, unless there are reasons that would make it obvious that it wasn’t in their best interests to go ahead.
What’s that saying? Fools rush in….???
February 28th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
While on the subject of Tania…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEh4gc33xRI
February 28th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
I spoke to Tanya last night.
Tanya hasn’t given up hope of the book being published, one way or another. Indeed, she sounded remarkably resilient, despite 2 years of hard work without anything (yet) to show for it.
I believe Jennifer Sexton (author of ‘The High Cost Of Faith’) has taken a keen interest in the book. Sexton used to be a senior writer at The Australian, and now works for The Bulletin. I believe we may read more excerpts in coming weeks.
This said, I wouldn’t be surprised if ‘The Masters Effect’ comes into play. Chris Masters’ book ‘Jonestown’ was knocked back by the ABC, only to be picked up by Allen & Unwin and turned into a best seller. The irony, of course, is that A & U have now also knocked back Tanya’s book for legal reasons, just days before it was due to go to the printers….and some here may say with good reason.
After intially saying ‘corporations can’t sue for defamation’, A & U’s lawyers came back sometime later and decided that ‘a not-for-profit’ entity, however, can sue for defamation…and that’s ultimately why they called the whole thing off.
I asked Tanya whether ‘toning it down’ was an option, but she said she can’t because, after all, it’s about Hillsong and the major players behind it.
It makes you wonder just how much (perceived) influence HS is having.
Incidently, for those who think taking legal action is not Hillsong’s style….
Admitittedly it’s not a defamation issue, but I was once consulted on the possibility of suing someone (who’s identity was not revealed) for non-payment of their building fund commitment.
I advised that:
1. Suing a brother is unscriptural.
2. You may get paid, but you may ruin a life in the process. Also, if word gets out, you’ll strike fear into the hearts of those in the church who may be struggling to meet their commitment. You’ll be sending the ‘if you don’t pay, we’ll sue you’ message…not a good look.
3. In the circumstances, it’s better to forgive ‘the debt’ than persue it.
March 1st, 2007 at 11:58 am
Hi there everyone,
i read with great interest the debate on this topic last night. first i would like to say thank you to the people who are supporting this project, directly and indirectly. i welcome open debate on my agenda and circumstances regarding my writing this book. i hope that if there are any concerns, people will post them, without hesitation. The idea with this project is that freedom of thought and expression are to be encouraged as much as silence and censorship are encouraged in fundamentalism.
i am writing an open letter to this forum because it is unique in its interest, and experience with the subject matter at hand.
on the 25th of february i was called by my editor at allen and unwin and told with great sympathy, that the chairman had decided to call off the publication of the book i signed a contract for in Feb, 2005. we had finalised a cover and were due to go to print tomorrow for a release in May.
it came as much of a surprise to all the staff who had worked so hard and graciously with me over the last two years as it did to me. Allen and Unwin have been fantastic with my work for this time, and the final decision is, just the way the cookie crumbles basically.
last night, having read the posts, i began to think, that it is still important that this story gets told. i appreciate the genuine concern that so many have shown me. i also realise that there is some degree of responsibility on my part to tell one story that represents a number. i hope you will help me with this, as this story unfolds.
i have no publisher as of today. i do however have a manuscript that is ready to go, one i could never have produced alone without A& U. i also have no idea if hillsong would sue, or have any intention of suing, which was ultimately the reason for A & U’s decision.
please feel free to ask any questions or to write to me at significantdisruption@hotmail.com
Lionfish, my old friend, nice to read your words. you know there won’t be any chapter publishing at this stage though dontcha?
Thanks again, people. i look forward to hearing a range of your opinions and thoughts on this situation…
Cheers,
Tanya
March 1st, 2007 at 2:16 pm
The story of the inner workings of Hill$ong will continue to be told regardless.
These excerpts are from a talk given by Brian Houston at a recent staff meeting at Hill$ong.
In my view, they are the words of a cult leader.
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=193231712
“The kind of attitude that I believe comes with an uncomplicated leader, specifically here at Hillsong Church, number 1..is just a passion for God. It’s simple, you just love God.
And second.. you love Hillsong Church, you love where He’s placed you. There’s no stuff in your heart there, you just love God, and you love His House, you love being here, you love being part of Hillsong church. Your heart’s good and all that stuff. That’s a great start to being uncomplicated.
The third thing, which I believe is an attitude of an uncomplicated person, is you see working here as an honour. It doesn’t owe you something. You don’t take anything for granted.
You just realise it’s just an honour being a part of God’s House and specifically part of here and what’s happening here, because I’m talking to our people about our church and about being here..and so you don’t take it for granted.
Maybe it used to be an honour. Maybe you could look back to when you first found out you’re going to be working at church. Hopefully when you found that out… you were excited. You know you were just really thrilled..it’s like the fulfillment of a dream.
Fourth thing, nothing is too hard. Nothing is too hard. You accept the standard. You accept the standards. Every role, every job has standards..and no matter what those standards are..if you want to be uncomplicated in what you do.. then you..as it were..have bought into those standards and you do so with joy.
So nothing is too hard, it’s not a big deal. It’s not a great big, you know, you’re just sort of maintaining the level…only just… Even then, as long as you’re seen to be doing the right thing then that’s Ok….
That’s going to get complicated.
But when you recognise that’s what it takes..that’s what it always takes..we’re up for that..that’s what we do..it’s a joy doing it…it stays uncomplicated doesn’t it? It’s pretty simple.
Fifth thing. Fifth attitude of uncomplicated people is they have undivided loyalties. They never find themselves caught in the middle. There’s not some of their heart wishing they were somewhere else. Really measure yourselves against that one.
Number 6. Number 6. I think if you are uncomplicated as a leader, you got a sense of humour. When you become complicated..one of the first things to go is your sense of humour. You think about that for a second. The moment people are finding it all a bit too hard..their sense of humour is one of the first things to disappear.
A good sign that someone is ..sort of…on song.they can still laugh at themselves …they can still laugh at the circumstances …they can laugh things off. Even if it didn’t go the way they want ..you know ..if it doesn’t go the way I want …but I’m uncomplicated….I can laugh it off.
But when it all starts to become a little bit too serious…I think it’s all getting a bit too complicated. A sense of humour is a sign of uncomplication. When you lose your sense of humour..it’s all because it’s getting a bit complicated. Ha!
Number 7. 7th attitude that rates to uncomplication, as far as I’m concerned ..is you’re an over-performer.
I’ve sort of said this a little..and some of these things will be slightly repetitive but think about it again, you’re an over-performer.
As I said, nothing is too hard. Because, listen, if anyone here who’s ever decided you’re gonna do something about your eating and your exercise, when your heart’s right in it, it’s amazing, you jump out of bed in the morning, you’re into this, you know what I’m saying?
You’re into it..so you jump out of bed in the morning, you go for your run and you think ‘gee, I wonder, I might do some press-ups as well,’ ’cause you’re into it, and your diet, you’re into it and you’ve got your food prepared and you’re all organised and you think about where you’re going to eat and you know how to say ‘no’..’cause you’re into it.
When your heart’s not in it anymore, it just becomes a much bigger struggle doesn’t it? Well, maybe that’s just me.
When my heart’s not in it anymore, just getting out of bed is so much harder, and finding an excuse to stop running and walk up this hill is so much easier ..and I think it’s like that with anything in life.
When you’re uncomplicated ..when your heart’s in a good place, then, you know, the standard is simple, you’re an over-performer, you go the extra mile, you’re not just sort of trying to do enough for it to be acceptable …’cause you just got your heart in a good place.
Are you an over-achiever in your role..in your job..are you an over-performer, are you going the extra mile?
I hope so!!
Number 8, an uncomplicated person takes responsibility. They don’t blame, they don’t justify, they don’t excuse, they just take it on board. They accept, because they’re uncomplicated.
There are some of the words I think come from an uncomplicated person …that’s attitude. Listen to some of these words. Think about this…what would come out of your mouth ..naturally. Naturally.
These are some of the words of an uncomplicated person.
‘Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for the opportunity’.
In other words, you still see what you do as an honour. Or do you still…have you got to the point where somehow, you think that you’re where you are by right.
I don’t mean God-given right, but somehow we owe it to you.
That uh, that you’re doing us a favour.
Psalm 100, verse 2..we’ve talked about it a thousand times…’serve the Lord with gladness.’
The moment you’re doing us a favour …I think it’s becoming complicated.
It should always be an honour. ‘Thank you for the opportunity.’
——-
This is one of my …ones I’ve talked about for many years…’do I have to come? Do we have to go? How many services do we have to be to? What’s the minimum?’
Don’t live minimums. It’s a great sign of complication, here’s another one, you ready? I’m speeding up now.
‘Can I take some time off’?
Now don’t take that literally because everyone needs some time off, but you know, certain people, they are constantly looking for an exception, an exception clause.
Somehow it should be different for them than everybody else..and so they’re always looking for time off.
You know we had one staff member a few years ago ..who every single year wanted some time off ..and every single year would say to me…I’ve organised it so all of my roles are covered ..and my attitude is.. that if you can so easily organise to cover your roles …why are you…why are we paying you? You know, you should be hard to miss.
This is the one thing people need to understand …if you leave space, we will fill the gap.
And you can’t just expect to come back and find that gap unfilled..because life has to go on. Church has to go on.
Even in areas like our worship teams and all of that .. you know people travelling and doing all they do .it’s great …we’re all in this together.. but everyone’s got to understand one thing.. nothing’s going to stay still.
So to suddenly think, ok, I’ve had enough of that now…and I sort of want to get back to where I was ..is simply not gonna happen….because life moves on.
———
And then other thing…man I hate this one… ‘I talked to a few others..and they all agree with me …that…’
You’re gone. You’re gone. That’s career suicide….around here.
‘Well, I talked to a few other people..and they all ..they all agree with me ….that …’
Man, lobbying is bad news, in any form… and coming with that attitude that ‘I’ve already talked to other people’…you’re already trying to gain points.
‘You know..I talked to Darlene and this is what she thinks… and I talked to Bobbie and this is what she thinks…and now I want to know what you think…’ There’s pressure on here..do you see that we’re basically trying to lobby. We’ve sort of told you…’this is what they want.. this is what they want..and really if you’re to be in line..that’s what you ought to want as well.’
So the way we go about things is really important..and I want to really encourage you …to never, ever, find yourself trying to get support for your mindset or your thinking by some form of lobbying …or…’I've talked to lots of people….and…’
And the last one… number 469…
‘What about the time that you….yeah… well what about the time that you…yeah but what about the time…what about the time…?’
So in other words…there’s unresolved stuff inside of you.
‘Yeah..but you said… what about…’?
Unresolved stuff. That’s all…..all of these things are the things that get someone to the point where they used to be…in the multitude.
They used to be in the main thrust of what was happening.
In the main thrust of where things were going.
I used to be in the multitude …that were going to the House of God.
Circumstances are what conspired against David.
But I want to encourage you to stay uncomplicated.
Have you got a sense of humour …do you see the funny side?
Do you still have that ability to laugh things off?
Every person here’s got their right to have their own ..you know ..lives and their own opinions ..and their own priorities. Every person’s got that. But when those start directly conflicting with the thrust and the passion and the heart of what we’re doing here.. it just gets complicated.
And I can tell you now..as a pastor and a leader …I will always lean on the uncomplicated.
I will always go..and so you know…if you look…you say why is such and such close to Brian ..I can tell you..it’s fairly simple actually.. they’re uncomplicated.
My priorities are their priorities…we’re heading in the same direction …we’re on the same journey..we’re on the same path…we tend to be consumed with the same things. We automatically go to the same conversations. That’s called a kindred spirit it’s what it’s called.
You hear what I’m saying? Basically we’re of one spirit..and when we’re of one spirit..it’s uncomplicated.
But the moment we’re no longer of one spirit…it becomes much more complicated.”
Leaving aside Houston’s remarkable comments about people who want holidays…his deep hatred for ‘complicated people’ (and he says explicitly in a church sermon on relationships that ‘I hate complicated people’) demonstrates why Houston is unsuitable for a pastoral role..and as the leader of a church movement.
Firstly, Houston is not a well man. It’s become clear that his leadership style is one of intimidation which appears to be compensation for his own often-spoken-about childhood victimisation by bullies back home in New Zealand.
Someone in AOG leadership should be sitting Houston down..and demanding that he receive psychiatric help to work through those issues that have caused him to be the workplace bully he is today, as demonstrated in the above transcripts and by the testimonies of others who have worked for him.
Secondly, what is clear that in order to be acceptable at Hill$ong, YOU must be unwell like Brian. You need to have the same dysfunctional thought processes about people and about workplace situations in order to work within that system.
Thirdly, Brian’s pathological hatred for people who are different to himself..explains why he has been so absent from direct contact with the community..and restricts himself to a lucrative speaking circuit with other like-minded (unwell) ‘uncomplicated’ people.
The leaders of the Anglican, Uniting, Baptist etc churches can happily do an interview and engage thoughtfully with community concerns…but Brian seems to find this extra-ordinarily difficult.
I would have thought that part of the primary role of the leader of a movement like the AOG would be to engage in regular dialogue with other churches and the community at large.
Yet Brian seems to hide away. Are even people in other churches…’too complicated’ for Brian.
If Brian can’t communicate with other Christians….how is he going to communicate with the rest of the community…which is infinitely more complicated?
Is this why the AOG is so stuck at the moment? In-breeding at a frantic pace…but mystified about to deal with the revolving door of ‘complicated’ people from the community who are unwittingly invited into a church movement that only copes with ‘uncomplicated’ people?
At least now we can understand why the AOG is off in its own world….
It’s Australian leader is unwell, and will only mentor those who are unwell like him.
March 1st, 2007 at 2:25 pm
I you feel that I’m holding back, feel free to say so.
March 1st, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Holding back would be a bad thing, right?
Sorry, I’m fairly uncomplicated, and I’m not sure what you were saying in all of that… just keep it simple, you know, just love God and love me/I mean the church.
Even Hybles acknowledges that a good leader is one who is replacing themself with another, so they can move to another level. Staying the same and being ‘missed’ while you reconvene your sanity is madness!!
And BH should know - he didn’t stay at the same level of leadership in order to run the funhouse!
March 1st, 2007 at 2:47 pm
I’m not sure about all this Lance. I was speaking to some friends about it and they think I should take some time off from Signposts. Can I have some time off? I’ll make sure someone else can keep posting for me.
March 1st, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Hi Tanya,
Yes m’am!
March 1st, 2007 at 2:56 pm
You know…some people would accuse me of being unwell, and that’s fine…but the difference between Houston and I ..is that Houston’s supposed to be pastoring a church movement.
It’s not like he’s the weird old uncle who you’re stuck with because you’re related to them and you’ve got no alternative but to make it work for the sake of family harmony.
Houston’s is a responsible position ..and no matter what he thinks he is…he’s only an employee of the organisation like everyone else…who can be sacked, just like his father was.
I think Houston needs to sit under someone’s else’s leadership for awhile..to get some perspective back.
To me, that address to the staff meeting proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that the guy’s an arsehole.
March 1st, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Lance,
you should not be surprsied. These guys generally cannot even understand a theology that allows for the baptism of infants … when we joined Riverview, as partners, the guy who interviewed me asked if my wife had been baptised. I replied “yes as abay” - he said “No That is not (a valid) Baptism”…
You are dealing with simpletons and ignoramouses (sp?) who just can’t think conceptually or critically. They have no underrstanding of hermenutics or exegesis beyond “God want’s you to Prosper”.
This is why they believe and need to be told they must Tithe. It’s like dealing with Childern, not mature adults. They need a Schoolmaster to tell them what to do and how to think.