Comments on: Hire Servants not professionals http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/ musings from those on the journey Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:31:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: James http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134429 James Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:28:57 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134429 Not in your life ... its mine mine mine! In love of course! Not in your life … its mine mine mine! In love of course!

]]> By: phil http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134421 phil Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:52:46 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134421 Gee which paid ministry position works 30 hours per week? Maybe I could apply. Gee which paid ministry position works 30 hours per week? Maybe I could apply.

]]> By: James http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134390 James Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:30:18 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134390 Bec, do you ever wonder what it is that makes the paid staff worthy of their hire and the unpaid staff worthy of burn-out? ... Of course, the unpaid staff get to work 60 hr weeks so the paid staff can drink coffee and discuss their vision for their ministry for 30 grueling hrs per week. Silly me, all makes sense once u get it in proper focus! :) Bec, do you ever wonder what it is that makes the paid staff worthy of their hire and the unpaid staff worthy of burn-out? … Of course, the unpaid staff get to work 60 hr weeks so the paid staff can drink coffee and discuss their vision for their ministry for 30 grueling hrs per week. Silly me, all makes sense once u get it in proper focus! :)

]]> By: bec http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134291 bec Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:35:20 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134291 "3. The shift from the lead pastor seeing the entire congregation as her or his flock to seeing a few key staff positions as his or her flock." Sounds like most big churches to me, and exactly the reason I don't like them - I like being in small churches where everyone knows each other. "“1. The shift from professional paid staff who direct volunteers in carrying our programs to paid servants who equip and coach unpaid servants to carry out most of the pastoral responsibilities. 2. The shift from using all paid staff to using combinations of paid and unpaid servants to fill a role or using unpaid servants in the place of paid staff" Sounds nice in theory, but I think this already happens, and is a key cause of burn-out!! "4. The shift from the charasimatic, lone-ranger type of leadership to more of a team-based approach to ministry.” (p117-118)" As above...as one of the 'unpaid leaders', who works full-time, often run services, and then is expected to pack up and lock-up while the paid staff go home, I can see flaws in this too! I know lots of paid church staff put in more time than they're paid for - but it's their community too, and if those of us that worked elsewhere added up our time spent in paid employment and our time spent in unpaid church employment, I still suspect we'd be the ones working longer hours...!! Not totally dissing Easum's approach...I just think it's very, very simplistic... Clearly I've been hanging out with way too many burnt-out unpaid people recently. :) “3. The shift from the lead pastor seeing the entire congregation as her or his flock to seeing a few key staff positions as his or her flock.”

Sounds like most big churches to me, and exactly the reason I don’t like them - I like being in small churches where everyone knows each other.

““1. The shift from professional paid staff who direct volunteers in carrying our programs to paid servants who equip and coach unpaid servants to carry out most of the pastoral responsibilities.

2. The shift from using all paid staff to using combinations of paid and unpaid servants to fill a role or using unpaid servants in the place of paid staff”

Sounds nice in theory, but I think this already happens, and is a key cause of burn-out!!

“4. The shift from the charasimatic, lone-ranger type of leadership to more of a team-based approach to ministry.” (p117-118)”

As above…as one of the ‘unpaid leaders’, who works full-time, often run services, and then is expected to pack up and lock-up while the paid staff go home, I can see flaws in this too! I know lots of paid church staff put in more time than they’re paid for - but it’s their community too, and if those of us that worked elsewhere added up our time spent in paid employment and our time spent in unpaid church employment, I still suspect we’d be the ones working longer hours…!!

Not totally dissing Easum’s approach…I just think it’s very, very simplistic…

Clearly I’ve been hanging out with way too many burnt-out unpaid people recently. :)

]]> By: alan http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134261 alan Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:41:23 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/04/18/hire-servants-not-professionals/#comment-134261 In all of my ministry some of the most bruised and battered people have been 'the servants of the church". Frankly churches and ministers have few ideas on what it means to be an "employer". Given the US record on labour relations,seems logical for them to be using concepts like "paid servants". Doesnt say much to me Phil, in fact keep away from any American who prattles on about masters and servants. In all of my ministry some of the most bruised and battered people have been ‘the servants of the church”. Frankly churches and ministers have few ideas on what it means to be an “employer”. Given the US record on labour relations,seems logical for them to be using concepts like “paid servants”. Doesnt say much to me Phil, in fact keep away from any American who prattles on about masters and servants.

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