Geoff Bullock article take two
A while ago we gave a heads up to an article about Geoff Bullock which was due to be published in the Australian back in October. They apparently changed their minds for a while (because he was uninteresting or something) but Geoff mentions that it is now due to be published in the Weekend Australian this weekend. We will try to link up or scan a copy for overseas commenters when it comes out.
Geoff has graciously agreed to discuss the article with us here at signposts. This is pretty vulnerable of him given that, as many of you will realise, Geoff has been pretty circumspect in the media about the fallout of his time at Hills Christian Life Centre (although on this site he has already been graciously open).
UPDATE - the full text of the article is here
May 27th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
Hi Dave - really enjoyed reading your post. You make some great points.
I have friends that are quite involved and well known at HS and although I am no longer involved with any group, I am glad that they are mature enough, free thinking enough and gracious enough that we can coexist as friends in spite of us no longer being on the same “team.” They are wonderful people and I would hate to lose them as friends but had to face that when the crunch came. That they chose to remain my friends nearly brings me to tears and I think the world of them.
I wish you the very best with your new church group and hope with your friends and your faith that their influence brings you healing, suport and hope.
Best wishes Lori
May 27th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
Thanks for your kind comments Geoff and Lori.
I should just explain what I said regarding being ’saved’.
I have a beautiful friend who introduced my to God before I went to Hillsong. I believe she was the one who really saved me as she planted the seed.
But it was Hillsong at which I went through the process and ‘crossed the bridge’ (their words) which inspired me know Jesus and learn and do more. I knew that as I gave myself to Him, this would be a major turning point in my life and Im never going to look back.
As I said, Hillsong for me served a purpose. Ive left there and moved on to something so much better. It may not have a band that plays drums but it at least its real and there’s no security guards to keep you from approaching the Pastor. And all the people are beautiful in their own way.
God bless
Dave
May 27th, 2006 at 10:43 pm
Dave, do you believe that any of Ellen G. White’s sayings/visions/prophecies (choose your term) are infallible?
May 27th, 2006 at 11:06 pm
Duck… shut up, for God’s sake.. leave your agendas behind. This is not about your bias or your theological bent, this is about Dave. You, my friend, need to learn some patience and to let God do his work without your opinions getting in the way. I have many, many SDA friends who are the m ost gracious believers who would give you so much more love and mercy than you are capable of feeling or receieving. This last post is far too extreme. Withdraw, mate. Dave, please ignore DD.
May 27th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
DD… Jesus went to a Samaritan woman living in adultery after 5 broken marriages… she was an anthema to the faith of Judaism, did he ask her whether her faith was ‘correct”… Jesuis said to a Roman Centurion that he had more faith than all of Israel.. did he ask him about the idol worship min Rome?.. Jesus appeared to Saul on the Damascus Rd, did he ask him about all the mursers he had committed, Jesus touched a leper.. did he first ask whether he had ceremonially washed himself according to Leviticus, jesus healed on the sabbath.. did he consult the law, … Jesus was crucified by the law.. did he raise an objection…? Did Jesus ever side against the sufferersand take the side of the law keepers or did he turn his back on the law keepers and speak love into the eyes of a prostitute? Tell me DD… where on earth is yoyr compassion? Has it been lost in your desire to protect your laws.
May 27th, 2006 at 11:16 pm
I have had enough of this legalstic insanity. You ae biting and devouring each oither whilst the lost and lonely cry out for mercy. Enough.
May 27th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
Dave, FYI the article is posted on the “High cost of faith”-thread here.
May 27th, 2006 at 11:21 pm
Dave - I too made a comittment away from church or other people. It was a done deal by the time I got to a church - and then was taken to church by the same friend who walked me through the early days. The big “walk down the front and make a commitment” is pivotal for a lot of people but others like you or myself had someone else there before that happened to guide the way. Whichever way it happened for you, it’s great you are now in a place (geographically and emotionally) that you feel comfortable and it is going well for you.
You speak well of those around you. Glad you have people around you that you respect and love. As I said, all the very best.
May 27th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
Does your magnanimity towards the beliefs of others extend to different faiths, Geoff?
May 27th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Does your love for God extend to your brother? Do you shelter under God’s unmerited and unconditional grace, mercy and forgiveness whilst withholding the same?
May 27th, 2006 at 11:44 pm
What meaning does “God’s unmerited and unconditional grace, mercy and forgiveness” have beyond sounding like a good idea?
It won’t have any meaning to all those spending eternity in hell, will it? It wasn’t applicable to the untold numbers of innocent people suffering at the hands of evil men, was it? It didn’t have applicability to those old testament peoples wiped out by God’s genocidal rage, did it?
Who said I’m like this in real life? Has Phil being telling you fibs again?
May 27th, 2006 at 11:54 pm
Ellen G. White believed that her writings were a lesser light, sourced from God, given to lead people to the greater light.
To quote from the Adventist’s website:
“we also believe, as did Ellen G White’s contemporaries, that her writings carry divine authority, both for godly living and for doctrine.”
So, are you ok with this belief, Geoff?
May 27th, 2006 at 11:58 pm
So, Geoff, you value emotional rapport and support above correct doctrine. It’s more important for poor old Dave to feel good than it is for him to avoid missing out on God’s eternal reward.
May 28th, 2006 at 12:33 am
What about all the individuals who have journeyed right into Christ’s love and grace because ‘if you seek Him with all your heart you will find Him’ (and they did); from all manner of places. ‘it is His kindness that leads us to repentance’ (and it is);
Prayer, Holy Spirit, gentle words….all work wonders. ‘Love covers a multitude of sins’…’mercy triumps over judgement’….’the greatest of all of these is love’…
I was astounded when I realised “Wow, Jesus doesn’t need me…..I am invited to work with Him’ and He is gentle and lowly of heart. As you can probably tell I am not so gentle and a bit of a ratbag!
Bring on a few more “God’s men (and women) of humility for the hour” although I am sure those of you who have been around for a while will get the joke!!
May 28th, 2006 at 2:50 am
Jane,
I haven’t had your details released to me, but if you want you can email me.
May 28th, 2006 at 2:51 am
Jane,
Woops had wrong email address on there. It should be right now
May 28th, 2006 at 8:42 am
Im with you Geoff. Unfortunately there are probably alot of people who read the blog but never bother to contribute because of others who stir up arguments. So Im not going to bother getting into a debate. This is a discussion about Hillsong.
If anyone wants to run debates on the merits of adventism or whether a homosexual can be a christian, start a new thread. Again, this is about Hillsong.
May 28th, 2006 at 9:27 am
Why the legalist approach to sticking to an alleged topic (the thread is about Geoff Bullock, not specifically Hillsong). To quote Geoff, “I have had enough of this legalstic insanity”. As you know, Dave, from reading other signposts threads, going off topic has been known - it’s usually to discuss homosexuality or Hillsong.
I think you are wishing to avoid facing the SDA challenge. SDA is not just another Christian denomination, it’s more like another cult that is wrong, wrong, wrong. Just because the Christian world is shrinking in Australia, doesn’t mean theological standards have to shrink also.
May 28th, 2006 at 9:39 am
John - haven’t received anything.
Try writergirl369@hotmail.com
May 28th, 2006 at 10:06 am
My Church History teacher who has studied trends in the different demoninations here is Australia, says that there has been a genuine revival in the SDA’s in recent years……….
May 28th, 2006 at 10:15 am
Hi Donald Duck
Sticking to the topic is really just good manners and courtesy so that threads don’t become too confusing for newcomers who want to read about a particular topic.
May 28th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
Hello Geoff, has the cat got your tongue?
May 28th, 2006 at 1:08 pm
Geoff probably has a life outside Signposts….unlike us.
May 28th, 2006 at 1:13 pm
Please don’t leave the ‘buying Hillsong CDs” alone! The music is great, so when come home from church feeling like crap, like I am feeling now. Well, Hillsong Music all the way!!! MIGHTY TO SAVE cd and dvd will be out on July 3rd! So excited, cuz the recording absolutely rocked. This one is album #16! And guess what? Darlene isn’t on the front cover!
Geoff, don’t let this site bring your mood down!
May 28th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Charli - I am watching HS United DVD even as we speak - Darn good inspirational stuff wouldn’t you agree.
May 28th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Kevin
How do you like Hisllsongs latest video..?
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/chaser/war/video/default.htm
Push Play … then select Hillsong.
This is so cool!
May 28th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Are those vomit buckets that are passed around during a Hillsong service?
May 28th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
I’m with you Geoff! Some of the posts here can get pretty personal and raw, and I think should be treated with dignity, respect and care before flying into a theological debate. The debate can come after a journey of care and listening.
DD - perhaps it wasn’t your question about the SDA’s that was a bit offensive, but the abruptness and insensitive timing and lack of acknowledgment of the pain and journey that had been expressed. Just a thought….
I must admit that I want to see much less judgmental attitudes in God’s Kingdom that currently exists right across the board. I think the thing that gets me most judgmental is judgmental attitudes….
May 28th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Dave’s a big boy, Wayne, I’m sure he can look after himself. Why be condescending with pseudo-therapeutic remarks? How un-Australian is that?
May 28th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
This has been my first visit to signposts. I want to say I enjoyed chatting with Geoff and the others who have taken this thread seriously, but really, there has been some offensive language and ugly attitudes, and that has been very disappointing. I have sent a letter of complaint to Hillsong about their lack of response to the members in the Australian article. I have not received a response yet. That is all I can do and it’s goodbye from me.