Comments on: detoxing from the church http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/ musings from those on the journey Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:09:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: saint http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175565 saint Sat, 04 Aug 2007 08:14:01 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175565 Silenced - judging by some of your other comments on this blog, you're on the mend. :-) Silenced - judging by some of your other comments on this blog, you’re on the mend. :-)

]]> By: breathfreshair http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175506 breathfreshair Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:44:07 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175506 Silenced, my heart goes out to you. For me, the healing began as soon as we finally shut the door. We made the decision not to go back while away on vacation, and I never returned again. I think the reason it was a lot easier for me to detox was because I went through the worst of it in the two years before we left. It is very hard to be the first in the family to realize that something is wrong. My frustration, soul-searching, anger and, yes, bitterness was pretty much in full swing during those two years before we left. By the time we made the decision to go, the relief was so intense that I could quite happily walk away. To be honest, I was ecstatic to be out. The strange thing is that even though I was so angry and upset before we left, it wasn't really aimed at the people (although at times it may have seemed so). It was really more at what the organization had become. Having said that, though, I've got to say that as happy as I was to leave, it was quite a while before I could actually play a Hillsong CD without feeling a little sick. I could sing the old songs at our new church without a problem, but to actually pick up a CD and listen to it definitely caused a reaction. Five years down the track, I'm definitely over that. I can appreciate the music and even use some of it in worship these days, but I still have no desire, whatsoever, to go back for any reason. Love, Deb Silenced, my heart goes out to you.

For me, the healing began as soon as we finally shut the door. We made the decision not to go back while away on vacation, and I never returned again. I think the reason it was a lot easier for me to detox was because I went through the worst of it in the two years before we left. It is very hard to be the first in the family to realize that something is wrong.

My frustration, soul-searching, anger and, yes, bitterness was pretty much in full swing during those two years before we left. By the time we made the decision to go, the relief was so intense that I could quite happily walk away. To be honest, I was ecstatic to be out.

The strange thing is that even though I was so angry and upset before we left, it wasn’t really aimed at the people (although at times it may have seemed so). It was really more at what the organization had become.

Having said that, though, I’ve got to say that as happy as I was to leave, it was quite a while before I could actually play a Hillsong CD without feeling a little sick. I could sing the old songs at our new church without a problem, but to actually pick up a CD and listen to it definitely caused a reaction.

Five years down the track, I’m definitely over that. I can appreciate the music and even use some of it in worship these days, but I still have no desire, whatsoever, to go back for any reason.

Love, Deb

]]> By: the rev http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175498 the rev Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:38:22 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175498 I am very sorry for all you have had to suffer through, I pray your healing will come. rev I am very sorry for all you have had to suffer through, I pray your healing will come.

rev

]]> By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175497 Janet Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:37:58 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175497 Hi Janet... you were writing as I was. Thank you for sharing your story... I'm sorry to hear of what you've endured, and heartened that you've found the God of all compassion in your healing journey. Hi Janet… you were writing as I was. Thank you for sharing your story… I’m sorry to hear of what you’ve endured, and heartened that you’ve found the God of all compassion in your healing journey.

]]> By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175496 Janet Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:33:44 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175496 SilencedByTheLambs... tears come to my eyes as I read your post. I think there are scars we carry for life, actually... but they become more like a memory of pain than fresh, raw pain as the years roll on... especially if we have the chance to process it through talking it through with someone who'll listen deeply, and through prayer, and through going deeper into the pain in the healing presence of Jesus. Just because of the way I'm wired, I think, I can't help but ask the "upstream" questions (ie rather than only fishing all the bodies out of the river in compassion, also ask who's throwing them in upstream and why?) How many people have to tell a similar story... that good people were turned into a religious commodity, used, abused, and ultimately disposed of. That's what you do with things... not with precious people created in the image of God. How did "church" cultures ever get so deeply sick... and what can be done to turn them around? This is why I periodically harp on about solid theology and pastoral formation and a long discernment process as non negotiables in paid church ministry... I don't think it's the whole answer to toxic church culture, but it's not a bad start either... SilencedByTheLambs… tears come to my eyes as I read your post. I think there are scars we carry for life, actually… but they become more like a memory of pain than fresh, raw pain as the years roll on… especially if we have the chance to process it through talking it through with someone who’ll listen deeply, and through prayer, and through going deeper into the pain in the healing presence of Jesus.

Just because of the way I’m wired, I think, I can’t help but ask the “upstream” questions (ie rather than only fishing all the bodies out of the river in compassion, also ask who’s throwing them in upstream and why?)

How many people have to tell a similar story… that good people were turned into a religious commodity, used, abused, and ultimately disposed of. That’s what you do with things… not with precious people created in the image of God. How did “church” cultures ever get so deeply sick… and what can be done to turn them around?

This is why I periodically harp on about solid theology and pastoral formation and a long discernment process as non negotiables in paid church ministry… I don’t think it’s the whole answer to toxic church culture, but it’s not a bad start either…

]]> By: Janet McKinney http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175495 Janet McKinney Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:27:57 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175495 My experience is not from a toxic church - but your cries sound like the ones I experienced when going through the depths of recovery from childhood sexual abuse. there was a sense of "I wish I had never started on this journey of supposed healing - I was better before when i denied it all". From the perspective of several years further down the journey - yes there were times when things got much worse, and less bearable - but that was journey I had to go through to recovery - a bit like a journey through "the valley of the shadow of death". Don't beat yourself up about the forgiveness issue just yet (or ever actually). God knows your heart, and he knows the beginning from the end. Sometimes you need to go through the process of feeling the hurt to its depths before forgiveness becomes possible. Before forgiveness comes the willingness to forgive - and before that comes the desire to be able to forgive - even though you are not yet able to forgive. As I have learned to trust, and love a man again, you will come through this time of pain and healing to love and trust God, and His people again. But you have no deadline - live in the present, accept the reality as it is now, and know that your Heavenly Father will carry you just like the Good Shepherd carries the lost sheep home again - with tenderness, love and protection. You are loved - so deeply loved by a God who weeps for your pain - who is angry that you were treated such by people in His name (he is really angry about that) and will lever let you go. remember - "Underneath are the everlasting arms" - you cannot sink so low in this morass that you will slip through those arms - they will always be there to catch you and hold you Blessings Janet McKinney My experience is not from a toxic church - but your cries sound like the ones I experienced when going through the depths of recovery from childhood sexual abuse. there was a sense of “I wish I had never started on this journey of supposed healing - I was better before when i denied it all”. From the perspective of several years further down the journey - yes there were times when things got much worse, and less bearable - but that was journey I had to go through to recovery - a bit like a journey through “the valley of the shadow of death”.

Don’t beat yourself up about the forgiveness issue just yet (or ever actually). God knows your heart, and he knows the beginning from the end. Sometimes you need to go through the process of feeling the hurt to its depths before forgiveness becomes possible. Before forgiveness comes the willingness to forgive - and before that comes the desire to be able to forgive - even though you are not yet able to forgive.

As I have learned to trust, and love a man again, you will come through this time of pain and healing to love and trust God, and His people again. But you have no deadline - live in the present, accept the reality as it is now, and know that your Heavenly Father will carry you just like the Good Shepherd carries the lost sheep home again - with tenderness, love and protection.

You are loved - so deeply loved by a God who weeps for your pain - who is angry that you were treated such by people in His name (he is really angry about that) and will lever let you go. remember - “Underneath are the everlasting arms” - you cannot sink so low in this morass that you will slip through those arms - they will always be there to catch you and hold you

Blessings
Janet McKinney

]]> By: SilencedByTheLambs http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175482 SilencedByTheLambs Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:37:03 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175482 Thanks akevin. And many thanks to you too daisy. I truly appreciate your sensitivity, understanding and insight. Thanks for "ministering to me." (gosh, I've not used that kind of religious jargon in a long time! ) and by the way, it was all relevant ! Thanks. Thanks akevin.

And many thanks to you too daisy. I truly appreciate your sensitivity, understanding and insight. Thanks for “ministering to me.”
(gosh, I’ve not used that kind of religious jargon in a long time! )

and by the way, it was all relevant ! Thanks.

]]> By: daisy http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175481 daisy Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:04:54 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175481 In answer to your questions silencedbythelambs How long does the detox take? Well every individual will be different depending on their circumstances. My personal experience tells me it takes quite some time. I am out of a toxic church now for 3 years, well actually 2.5 years. I no longer expect that church will met any of my needs, quite a bit of freedom in that. I no longer expect that I will met any of the churches organisational needs there is even more freedom (and joy) in that. If I try something and it doesnt fit or I feel it is doing me harm, I move on. Keep moving forward, Christ will steer you. I do expect that Christ will lead me by the still waters and restore my soul? Oh yes, my expectations in this regard have not been disappointed. But is has been very very difficult. For me it is about looking at the source of my faith in the first place, Jesus. 2. How long before the healing begins? I suspect for you it already has. On a personal note, giving up my pre conceived ideas about what the healing will look like is very difficult and a day to day struggle. What I mean is not looking back and thinking, well it ever be like that again? Really giving up the past, knowing it will never be like that again. Looking forward knowing that there will be new adventures ahead, even though those adventures may be outside of the church walls but inside of Christs plan for my life. 3. Does forgiveness/peace ever come? Yes and yes, but it is a slow process. I can only comment on my own journey but after 3 years I am still coming to terms with my experience, although I am beginning to understand it was particularly complex and quite awful. Do I have peace? Yes. I need to work at remaining in peace, know Christ is watching over my life even in the midst of the storms. Have I completely forgiven? No, at this point that is an ongoing process, I have forgiven much but there is still much to forgive. 4. Will I ever to able to open my heart to God and people? Dear silencedbythelambs, I read your post, you already have. I do not know your experience but I felt betrayed by Jesus and well as man. These are never easy issues to work through, but slowly you do. I found the gospels healing, I never have a problem loving the Jesus of the gospels. The good shepherd who left the ninety nine and went looking for the one lost sheep. The one who tells us that he cares for the sparrows, so why would he not care for us? Oh, He loves you, never forget it. I hope this might help, and anything I said that was not relevant for you, feel free to disregard it completely. In answer to your questions silencedbythelambs
How long does the detox take? Well every individual will be different depending on their circumstances. My personal experience tells me it takes quite some time. I am out of a toxic church now for 3 years, well actually 2.5 years. I no longer expect that church will met any of my needs, quite a bit of freedom in that. I no longer expect that I will met any of the churches organisational needs there is even more freedom (and joy) in that. If I try something and it doesnt fit or I feel it is doing me harm, I move on. Keep moving forward, Christ will steer you. I do expect that Christ will lead me by the still waters and restore my soul? Oh yes, my expectations in this regard have not been disappointed. But is has been very very difficult. For me it is about looking at the source of my faith in the first place, Jesus.
2. How long before the healing begins? I suspect for you it already has. On a personal note, giving up my pre conceived ideas about what the healing will look like is very difficult and a day to day struggle. What I mean is not looking back and thinking, well it ever be like that again? Really giving up the past, knowing it will never be like that again. Looking forward knowing that there will be new adventures ahead, even though those adventures may be outside of the church walls but inside of Christs plan for my life.
3. Does forgiveness/peace ever come? Yes and yes, but it is a slow process. I can only comment on my own journey but after 3 years I am still coming to terms with my experience, although I am beginning to understand it was particularly complex and quite awful. Do I have peace? Yes. I need to work at remaining in peace, know Christ is watching over my life even in the midst of the storms. Have I completely forgiven? No, at this point that is an ongoing process, I have forgiven much but there is still much to forgive.
4. Will I ever to able to open my heart to God and people?
Dear silencedbythelambs, I read your post, you already have. I do not know your experience but I felt betrayed by Jesus and well as man. These are never easy issues to work through, but slowly you do. I found the gospels healing, I never have a problem loving the Jesus of the gospels. The good shepherd who left the ninety nine and went looking for the one lost sheep. The one who tells us that he cares for the sparrows, so why would he not care for us? Oh, He loves you, never forget it.
I hope this might help, and anything I said that was not relevant for you, feel free to disregard it completely.

]]> By: akevin http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175480 akevin Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:54:36 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175480 SILENCE - SORRY ABOUT THE DEATH OF WHAT'S DEAR TO YOU. THE GOOD NEWS IS, THEY CAN ONLY KILL YOU ONCE, HERE'S TO YOUR RESSURECTION! SILENCE - SORRY ABOUT THE DEATH OF WHAT’S DEAR TO YOU. THE GOOD NEWS IS, THEY CAN ONLY KILL YOU ONCE, HERE’S TO YOUR RESSURECTION!

]]> By: SilencedByTheLambs http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175479 SilencedByTheLambs Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:50:41 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/01/detoxing-from-the-church/#comment-175479 I need a "brief flicker." Thanks emblazoned. I need a “brief flicker.”

Thanks emblazoned.

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