Hillsong article
For those that inquired about the Hillsong article which appeared in the Weekend Australian, the Australian (or more particularly the copyright owner) has agreed to permit us to publish the article on this site for everyone to access, for a fee about the cost of a pair of sneakers. This is unfortunately outside of our (non-existent) budget for this site. Could people either comment here or drop me an email if you would be willing to chuck in some money to make this available, or alternatively if you don’t think that it is worth it to do. Ta.
August 10th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
Nah… the authorities would not be bothered. It would sort of be like the Billy Connolly movie - “The Man Who Sued God”.
These guys know they can get away with it. Its been going on for centuries.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:47 am
From the mouth of the guys that hosts Benny Hinn:
Hmmm.
August 11th, 2006 at 1:49 pm
I have just finished reading An Ordinary Man: The True Story behind the Hotel Rwanda by Paul Rusesabagina. It is of course the story of the Rwandan genocide in 1994. However as I was nearing the end I read a passage that describes as “one of the most powerful human urges”. I found it interesting in the light of the discussions here on church and hope it may be somee fodder for further thought. He wrote this in regard of those who joined the killing gangs. It is also interesting to note that Rusesabagina formerly considering Pastoring in the Rwandan SDA and is now dissillusioned by the church. Any way here is his observation.
pg 248
“Something happens to you when you join a group, a feeling I can only describe as freedom. I felt it myself on various soccer teams growing up. I also felt it when I joined the staff ot the Hotel Millie Collines. It is possible to lose oneself in the purpose of the collective effort; we embrace this feeling of being dissolved into something bigger because at our cores we are lonely. We are trapped inside our own skulls. But we thirst for that unity, that lost wholeness that we imagine we had before we where born. That feeling of warm acceptance we get inside a group is addictive; it is one of the most powerful human urges. And when your individuality is dissolved in the will of the pack you then become free to act in anyway the pack directs. The thought of acting otherwise becomes abhorrent as death. We fear the group will withdraw its acceptance from us and we will be cast out and the love will die. We would do almost anything to keep this from happening. Tyrants understand this. They try to point these groups like spears in the direction that serves their aims. If nobody can find it within themselves to stand outside the group and find the inner strength to say no, then the mass of men will easily commit atrocities for the sake of keeping up personal appearances. The lone man is ridiculed and despised, but he is the only one who can stand between humanity and the abyss.”
August 11th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
G- REq
WOW! that is so true. it explains Hitlers followers, Moa’s, and Jim Jones. I wonder if it is that they (tyrants) are cognitive of the way to use this or if mans instict to bond into these groups just takes over.
August 11th, 2006 at 8:05 pm
Did I miss this somewhere along the line;a great insight into where H$ is coming from:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/hillsong-emerges-to-serve-jobless/2006/07/12/1152637740392.html#
August 11th, 2006 at 8:15 pm
Ooops post in wrong thread. Was supposed to be in Flingin’ flangin’
August 12th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
I posted this link over at the census thread, but today’s Weekend Australian has an article about factionalism in the Melbourne Anglican church. The article mentions Hillsong, so I thought I might post it here too. Online copy here.
August 12th, 2006 at 10:04 pm
You’ve gotta do what it takes
Just a question. How many of you who have attended Hillsong like churches have heard this mantra?
Ususally refering to being accepted into the inner sanctum of leadership. It has become one of those sayings that makes me cringe. Along with be the head and not the tail and the Malachi storehouses verse coupled with test me in this.
August 12th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
Grace Required … I think it may have been you that pointed it out but Malachi is pointing at the Priests (Leadership) as being the “God Robbers” - I have never heard a sermon on
August 12th, 2006 at 11:21 pm
That verse ….“It’s the job of priests to teach the TRUTH. People are supposed to look to them for guidance. The priest is the messenger of God-of-the-Angel-Armies. But you priests have abandoned the way of priests. YOUR TEACHING HAS MESSED UP MANY LIVES. You have corrupted the covenant of priest Levi. God-of-the-Angel-Armies says so. And so I am showing you up for who you are. Everyone will be disgusted with you and avoid you because you don’t live the way I told you to live, and you don’t teach my revelation truly and impartially .”
…Is from Malachi 2:7-9 … Just before the favoured verse on the “tithe’.
Read and quote from the whole book of Malachi - honorable Pastors.
August 13th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
Here is an article about Heidi baker from Charisma magazine I found of interest
Heidi Baker’s Uncomfortable Message to America
Heidi Baker is challenging the American church to reject superstar Christianity and return to the simplicity of the gospel.
http://www.charismamag.com/fireinmybones/
August 13th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
Wow Kevin, it looks as though youare becoming one of Us!
August 14th, 2006 at 2:59 am
If you’re a ’superstar’….why do you have to tell people who the hell you are?
From Darlene Zschech’s own blog http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=32111098
“About Darlene Zschech
An understated superstar that casually moves about the musical radar, Darlene Zschech takes the accolades, the business, the recording and performing, every detail surrounding the music she writes and sings, in a steady stride.”
How come nobody outside the charismatic Christian sub-culture has heard of her if she’s a ’superstar’? (oh…she’s an ‘understated’ one).
Looks like we’ll now have to elevate Mojo (the guy who sang the ‘you ought to be congratulated’ margarine jingle) to ‘understated superstar’ status.
August 14th, 2006 at 7:07 am
SHHHH Lionfish… If word gets out, I’m finished on the Professional Speaking Circuit.
What’s really funny to me is that in some of my circles Heidi baker is a superstar (understated). I don’t think she knows it though. This was always one of my big problems with ken hagin. The people I knew from his Bible College were the coldest people I ever met. I went to see hin about 12-13 years ago in Indianapolis. The front 7-800 chairs were reserved for their Bible School graduates and yes men. The ride up was good though and so was the meal at Denny’s afterward.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
You know, I liked most of that article except for this stuff:
I don;t think I’ve ever heard of Heidi Baker - but whenever i see stuff like this printed about anyone - especially when it says it’s happened in Africa where i’s phenominally hard to source the accurate reports or get confirmation of events and facts - very dubious - but agree with the message.
I’d like to hear what others think about things like the above.