Hillsong article
For those that inquired about the Hillsong article which appeared in the Weekend Australian, the Australian (or more particularly the copyright owner) has agreed to permit us to publish the article on this site for everyone to access, for a fee about the cost of a pair of sneakers. This is unfortunately outside of our (non-existent) budget for this site. Could people either comment here or drop me an email if you would be willing to chuck in some money to make this available, or alternatively if you don’t think that it is worth it to do. Ta.
May 23rd, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Janet - In other words…no.
May 23rd, 2006 at 1:08 pm
Reve - you said ‘BECAUSE THEY DO NOT TRUST THAT IF THEY TOLD THE TRUTH THAT THEY WOULD NOT LOSE THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY THEY DESPERATELY NEED. They are terrified of, not God’s judgement (because they know he is forgiving)…….but yours & those like you.”
I think here is a point everyone breezed past. And it is true. Christian people keep their sins covered up becasue of the fear of man, not God. I John 1:9 works and is good enough for God but people have a hard time with it.
i think there are churches who are not this way, but they are few and far between, after all, most church folks trust that their pastor and his wife are too spiritual to have sex (other than for pro creation). Do you really want to go to a church where the pastor is just like you, (has problems with his flesh), and is a learner and a seeker just like you ( not really the “answer man”) - I hope you find MORE peace with you and with God on your journey.
May 23rd, 2006 at 1:11 pm
Thanks for the clarification Bec… I officially give up.
May 23rd, 2006 at 2:31 pm
Pardon me Homer - what does humble mean?
May 23rd, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Dictionary.com says:
hum·ble Audio pronunciation of “humble” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hmbl)
adj. hum·bler, hum·blest
1. Marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful.
2. Showing deferential or submissive respect: a humble apology.
3. Low in rank, quality, or station; unpretentious or lowly: a humble cottage.
Homer says “humble means we were all sinners.”
You can see how we can get confused.
Homer says:
“We can only gain things through him not ourselves. We put ourselves in God’s hands. That is possibly the most basic biblical doctrine of all yet you a minister do not seem understand this.”
I do believe that God is central and we need to put our lives into God’s hands. Please do not put words into my mouth. What I was saying is that I found it ironic that you would claim that you were humble by telling us all we were wrong and then you only proceed to demonstrate your kind of “humbleness” by telling me that I don’t believe we should put ourselves in God’s hands. Someting that I didn’t even comment upon.
Perhaps you could start by explaining to me the connection. Of course I would ask that you do so in a humble way. Perhaps a re-reading of the dictionary definition supplied of humble might be helpful.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:24 pm
No matter what, let’s just allow each other the freedom to continue to question whatever is not working - for whatever reason. james, you input just so reminded me of “the paradox of change”: change occur, when you become what you are - not when you’re trying to be what you are not” Isn’t that what confessing to God is all about; agreeing on “what is real”? And isn’t CHANGE from status quo what we’re all after, hoping for, desperate for - if I get your alls frustrations right?
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:24 pm
This is what 1 Cor 5 is all about and why God wrote it for us
The only recorded writings of God Himself was by Jesus, who wrote things on the ground at a stoning.
If you’re saying Paul was God, then I would have thought that was blasphemy.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:34 pm
Piask…. that was an excellent way of descibing ‘coming into the light’. Surely that is what we are trying to do; not hiding, or pretending, but being who we really are and journeying with frail faith.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Getting back to Hillsong. Wrong theology has lead to wrong practice; the byproduct being shattered lives. There should be a lesson in this for “liberal theologians”, methinks.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:48 pm
We look forward to Phil Pringle’s Christian City Church being a little more open to the media…when the church hosts Benny Hinn at the Sydney Superdome, June 23-24, 2006.
http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,37763.html
REPORTERS and photographers covering the Benny Hinn Miracle Crusade on Friday (in Trinidad and Tobago) bitterly complained of being kept away from the American televangelist and the ill persons he purported to heal.
During the three-hour rally and in the time leading up to it, media personnel suffered from a constant low-level but persistent intimidation by various classes of security personnel and ushers.
Many got the distinct impression that the organisers did not want the event to be too closely scrutinised.
Except for the choir, dignitaries and a few handpicked “healed” persons, everyone was kept well away from Hinn.
His stage was cordoned off from the public by a long fence. There was a large exclusion zone in front of the stage, with the closest public seating being 50 feet away from Hinn.
At the start of the event, a TV6 camera crew was seen packing up, apparently expelled, according to what a member of the CCN media house told Sunday Newsday.
Security personnel banned media photographers from taking photos of Hinn while he was preaching, and said they had to stay behind a white line painted on the ground some 40 feet from the stage.
At one stage one press photographer had a row with security personnel who were so distracted in dealing with him, that other photographers were able to sneak a shot.
After Hinn claimed to have healed people, Sunday Newsday sought to observe and speak to some of these people, to judge for ourselves but we were kept from them. Sunday Newsday was twice prevented from approaching persons who were supposedly healed by Hinn. When we approached a group at the west end of the fence we were blocked from them by a dozen ushers who had linked arms in a cordon to isolate the “healed” persons from scrutiny.
When we went to look at a group of “healed” persons at the east end of the fence we were chased away by a woman with a mixed-American accent who appeared to be part of Hinn’s entourage.
When Sunday Newsday tried to walk across the area in front of the stage we were told to find another route to pass as our presence would interfere with the filming of the event by an American television crew working with Hinn.
Before the event begun, Sunday Newsday had intended to interview some of the ill people, but we felt very intimidated by the ushers and security personnel. Security for the event was provided at several different levels. Firstly were the ushers and security drawn from local churches. Sunday Newsday learnt that among these personnel were plainclothes police officers.
Secondly there were at least two private hired security firms, one firm clad in black, the other sporting red jerseys.
Thirdly there were armed and uniformed members of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service, plus personnel from the Fire Service.
Fourthly, Sunday Newsday learnt that also present were plainclothes American security personnel who had pressumably travelled with Hinn.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:57 pm
Yeah Piask, change occur, when you become what you are - not when you’re trying to be what you are not” Isn’t that what confessing to God is all about; agreeing on “what is real”?
Let us be as transparent as we are able - let us come to the light! But here i also find myself in agreement with EP and Ned. When the light of God’s Word reveals that our teaching and/or actions are against God, then let us not seek to make God fit our teaching, but rather let us conform our teaching in accord to the Word of God. If you have a read of the Tithing thread, you will numerous examples of wrong theology leading to wrong practice leading to bondage and destruction of many. This is true of any theology that is founded on the traditions of men or their personal agendas rather than the Word of God.
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:15 pm
Make sure you’re cashed up when you go to Hillsong conference this year.
http://www2.hillsong.com/conferences/hillsong/
IMPORTANT INFORMATION: ……………… Free will offerings will be taken at each Evening Rally………………..
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Come come now Lance; lets not be cynical! As you point out, they advertise how IMPORTANT it is to realise that any offering will be FREE WILL! LOL It makes so sad; the damage that is being done to those who would trust in Christ.
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:29 pm
Brian Houston in Perth.
Official Church Opening with Special Guest Ps Brian Houston
Friday, June 09, 2006 - 2 Services - 6pm & 8.30pm
Location: Sunset Coast Christian Life Centre - 10 Winton Road, Joondalup
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:31 pm
James, I’m with you on that:rather let us conform our teaching! I wouldn’t want it any other way. I admit to have no idea as to how difficult this would be in the kind of churches that you describe - that have been responsible for so much scaring of Jesus’ flock - as my experiences are from a much smaler-scale setting. However, I do believe that the whole concept of “teaching” is a bit overrated - since the application of God’s truth will be depending on the context. I don’t mean this in the “relativistic” sence - more like : try conduct a study on how Jesus heals the sick - you’ll be surprised at the variety in strategy;-) As God is always surprising to anyone trying to keep Him in the box!
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:36 pm
“The only recorded writings of God Himself was by Jesus, who wrote things on the ground at a stoning.”
Um not quite. A rather interesting reference to the two tablets of the Testimony inscribed by the finger of God. (Exod 31:18; 32:15-16 cf Heb 9:4. And to reflect: 2 Cor 3:1-3)
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:50 pm
Ok, three references then, the writing on the ground by Jesus, the ‘finger of God’ (I think it’s a metaphor, but anyway…) and the letter written by Jesus on human hearts, but it’s still a long way from Homer’s This is what 1 Cor 5 is all about and why God wrote it for us.
May 23rd, 2006 at 8:19 pm
In using the term “teaching”, i was meaning “sound doctrine”.
May 23rd, 2006 at 8:54 pm
In using the term “teaching”, i was meaning “sound doctrine”. - I was thinking you did - but even that can sometimes be extremely exclusive in a way I believe Jesus would have never wanted his followers to be - and a lot of people on this blog seem very hurt by “sound doctrine”, as well as by really “far out” teachings, clearly contradicting the heart of God as Jesus revealed it.
I’m beginning to think that maybe the proper question isn’t so much “what doctrine is sound and what doctrine is not” (although that leads to lots of interesting discussions) as it is “what doctrine is called for, where we are at now, to make us more like Jesus”? And I’m scared that maybe a lot of us have been severely crippled in our walk with Jesus from the questions we didn’t dare asking… Just a thought, probably not a very Danish one!
May 23rd, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Posting rules - watch the movie and lean some tips…
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/188612
WIGGY
May 23rd, 2006 at 9:30 pm
Please help me out, Wiggy - I watched the movie - what did I do that was disturbing/improper - I really don’t mean to offend anybody here?
May 23rd, 2006 at 9:52 pm
One thing i appreciate about the anonymity of the cyber church is the ability for the crippled to pose those impossible questions. Brain is shutting down now, sorry. I gotta go snooze, had a late nite last. It has been good dialoguing; hope you hang about.
May 23rd, 2006 at 10:05 pm
I will - and I hope I’m not to “interuptive” - being awake as I am while you all are sleeping:-9 gives me a chance to catch up on some threads, though, and hours to think and pray for all of us pushing ahead together through uncharted territory!
May 24th, 2006 at 1:39 am
This has been an interesting read…
July 13th, 2006 at 2:21 am
Hillsong Emerges To Serve Jobless.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/hillsong-emerges-to-serve-jobless/2006/07/12/1152637740392.html
July 13th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Concerns Raised Over Hillsong’s Role In Welfare-to-work Program
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1685395.htm
July 13th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
“Ok at the end of the month July 27-29, Joyce Meyer Ministries and Hillsong Australia unite again and are going to be at the Allstate Arena, here in Chicago, IL. There will be five services, two days and three nights. The speakers are Joyce Meyer and Pastor Brian Houston of Hillsong Church Australia, plus worship with gifted praise and worship leader Darlene Zschech at each session. ”
From http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=79068018&blogID=143691767
July 13th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
Lance the last post is no surprise but #385 sure was…I’m not sure how to react to this…I guess it doesn’t surprise me that Hill$ong would be in partnership with a diabolical (love that word) government policy because there is $650 for each person they counsel about their money affairs. I honestly do not know where to begin, although I love the way that Coleman scapegoated the Street Teams who are the only ones actually making any impact in the community. What an arsehole! How much of a “top up” did his salary get this time?
July 15th, 2006 at 12:26 am
Welcome To The Breadline.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/welcome-to-the-breadline/2006/07/14/1152637867072.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
July 15th, 2006 at 9:19 am
How dare leigh Coleman attack his street teams. They are set up from the start with no money to work with and no training. He has overstepped the mark once again. Maybe he should donate half of his wage to cover the costs of training the uneducated Hillsong students before sending them to the slaughter.
You have to love the leaders who attack the servents for working their butt off in their own time. I guess I was one of those who overstepped the boundary by helping others without evening asking for a dollar. Thanks very much Leigh. You are a ledgend, I wish one day to be more like you.