Hillsong article
For those that inquired about the Hillsong article which appeared in the Weekend Australian, the Australian (or more particularly the copyright owner) has agreed to permit us to publish the article on this site for everyone to access, for a fee about the cost of a pair of sneakers. This is unfortunately outside of our (non-existent) budget for this site. Could people either comment here or drop me an email if you would be willing to chuck in some money to make this available, or alternatively if you don’t think that it is worth it to do. Ta.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
I work as a Volunteer management professional (that is I manage volunteers - not volunteer to manage!!!) - in our program we utlise the work for the dole program in that we sponsor several projects which allow us to employ volunteer cordinaotrs in the different areas of our region (Central Coast, Newcastle, Hunter and New England (Tamworth, Singleton) parts of NSW). We find this program is mutually beneficial to us and our particpants and we are proud to be a part of it.
I can not think of one reason other than greed that would inspire Emerge to be a part of the so called wefare to work program - they should be ashamed
July 17th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
Or you could see it the way I do.. you complicate the simple. Now that is RELIGION IN ACTION! And it’s not a false argument because it WORKS there. And if it can work THERE it can work HERE. If the education is necasary HERE then it is THERE. Why is the chinese church having such success while the Uniting and the other mainliners are slipping under the radar ( rising to new heights of mediocrity) around the world??????
Not a novice - the greek word is “neh-of’-oo-tos”
Definition
newly planted
a new convert, neophyte (one who has recently become a Christian)
Has nothing to do with getting a Phd - it refers to a NEW CONVERT.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
422 is for Abtruth
July 17th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
The other thing I wanted to say about pastors/mionisters and training - I really don;t think anyone who uses the old - well the disciples weren’t trained is really thinking it through terribly well - They each spent three years in training with the Master himself!!! You can;t get better theological training than that! All we ask is that peope who want to lead a church do at least a year or two in accredited training before they hangh up a shingle and insert an atm in their loungeroom
July 17th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
Regardless of the level of qualifications, the most relevant qualification for leadership (in terms of this discussion) is the qulaity of ‘Being Teachable’ - or having the humility and the attitude to change your doctrine and outlook when error is pointed out to you.
This has not been the case for any of the ‘tithe’ teachers … rather they bunker down and defer to the use of dodgy defences such as ‘apostolic hermeneutics’ that defy Church tradition, the range of opinions of leading orthodox
Ever heard a Brian Houston, a Phil Priingle, a Pat Mesiti, a Phil Baker or an Allan Meyer even say “we may be wrong on this issue… let’s move tithing into the Romans 14 bucket and leave it up to the individual”…
C’mon boys – show us all that you are teachable …
July 17th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
should be “the range of opinions of leading orthodox teachers”
July 17th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Something that just struck me about Emerge (I just went to their website) theirs a lovely photo of Leigh (I think it’s him) with his arm around a man of aboriginal appearance - I wonder if he is one of the aborignal peolpe leigh and his fellow workers tried to rip off!
July 17th, 2006 at 6:17 pm
On Four Corners Tonight… exploring the links between the Liberal party and the religious right….. now, this could be very interesting. I used to work at the ABC and was part of the crew that worked on the Chris Masters expose on what was then the NSW Rugby League and Murray Farquar. When they dig deep they uncover things that end up in Royal Commissions…
July 17th, 2006 at 6:44 pm
Well, if this story is on a par with Farquar there won’t be much in it…..but I’ll watch the story anyway.
July 18th, 2006 at 12:14 am
it may be working mn but that is not what i was arguing and it was a red herring… sorry.
if lack of education is working there so what ??? the lack of education here with pastors is working a treat… hillsong has never had it so good and its run by a bunch of dodo’s
nearly every mega church in oz that i have come in contact with is run by someone with little knowledge or a compromised view of the gospel … big numbers has nothing to do with anything… give them entertainment and a feel good message and they will beat down your door…
Why is the chinese church having such success while the Uniting and the other mainliners are slipping under the radar ( rising to new heights of mediocrity) around the world?????? —– are you saying that it is their education that is making them slip… if this is your arguement then logically we should all try to be as stupid as possible!!!
i know plenty of people who have been Christians for years who can’t put a coherent description of the gospel together because they are still on milk… remember that metaphor milk at first then the meat?
i don’t want to goad you any further buy you are really on shakey ground with your arguement MN… i am suprised to see you argue this point of view, previously your post have been great… don’t “stand on your dick” as some crude people are fond of saying just because i came across a bit harsh before…
July 18th, 2006 at 2:27 am
Okay abtruth - what I am saying is that eduacation is not what it takes to keep them from slipping. Again, the original point is about pastors having to be trained as “counselors”. I am not trying to imply that education is bad - it is just that it is not the cure-all. My final point is this - You can be a legitimate minister/pastor without the Bible degree and you can be illigitimate with the degree. You can be a legit pastor without counseling people.
Training for ministry can take diferent roads for different people, some may choose college ( like Hillsong Leadership for example
) others may learn from a few years of training, on the job serving another ministry, for example. i know a man who was in business until he was 50 - when he left his carrer and became a Methodist pastor of a small congregation - and served them for a few years until he was able take a larger church - he served well until they made him retire and pastored a moderate sized church. He has a degree in business administration.
Okay - peace be still -
July 18th, 2006 at 8:15 am
Damn!
I missed the 4 Corners thing, any revelations there?
A transcript i can look at?
July 18th, 2006 at 8:51 am
Just read the trnscript, it’s here for anyone intersted:
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2006/s1688866.htm
July 18th, 2006 at 9:55 am
ooooh macedamia nut
have a big cyberhug from me
July 18th, 2006 at 10:05 am
So this “standing on your dick” thing you speak of abtruth…doesn’t that hurt?
July 18th, 2006 at 10:34 am
The Four Corners thing was a complete disappointment. I reckon Clarke and Hawke and their mob are contemptible, despicable human beings, but the line of the night goes to their spokesman Machael Darby….
“JANINE COHEN: Don’t you think ordinary supporters of the Liberal Party would be shocked about all this? Don’t you think they think that people who belong to the State Council would be voting themselves?
MICHAEL DARBY, LIBERAL PARTY FEDERAL COUNCIL: What planet are you from? People really expect political parties to function like political parties.”
July 18th, 2006 at 11:56 am
Thanks for the hug abtruth- …. hey that’s quite hug you have there, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. As they used to say in Amway- “Ain’t it great!”
July 18th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
“I went for a job recently at Gloria Jeans at Norwest where the Hillsong church is…the manager asked me questions such as “what is spiritual connection?” and “what have you done to make somebodies day?”…these questions i believe would have an open personal response but i was wrong, i was corrected on what ’spiritual connection’ really was…only employing Hillsong keeps their money in a sick money driven cycle.”
From http://reilly.typepad.com/cameronreilly/2005/10/more_on_gloria_.html#comment-15824112
July 18th, 2006 at 7:58 pm
i have very short legs unfortunatley
July 18th, 2006 at 8:01 pm
for that matter … why is your name greg (and lance) in blue where mine is black
July 18th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
When you register..and you include a website address..then you get a blue name tag…(just like the blue name tags we had to wear at Churchlands…)
When you click on my blue name tag..you go to the best radio station on the internet…Queeradio.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:37 pm
welli’llbebuggerednow
remember we’re all white trash.. but Jesus still loves us
July 19th, 2006 at 12:01 am
How is emerge so big and gaining all this funding, I volunteered there for 8 weeks in Blacktown, there is no one there. No one ever comes through those doors for help. I’m confused. Maybe they are different at Redfern. Probably not.
Surely there is other worth while charities having a larger impact or is this all politically driven. It is so sad to see that church has now blurred the lines between politics and actually giving a damn about people. Next thing you will know Brian will be handing out how to vote cards at the next ellection.
On a brighter note, I actually went back to a church after a huge leave from HS. Mind you they did play HS music but were actually real in their message.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
What the….?
This from the Hillsong Website : -
——————————————————————————-
Partnering With Fusion
Fusion Australia, a Christian Youth and Community Organisation located in Western Sydney, is now partnering with Hillsong Emerge to provide professional counselling to those in need. Many people who specifically need professional counselling are unable to afford the services they may require and for this reason Fusion Australia has offered to subsidise those clients wishing to access these services who are then referred to Hillsong Emerge.
Fusion approached Hillsong Emerge to offer this vital service, recognising that there are many people in need of professional counselling in our communities.
————————————————————————–
What the hell are Fusion thinking? I thought they had always been a socially reponsible organisation!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
“Fusion Australia has offered to subsidise those clients wishing to access these services who are then referred to Hillsong Emerge”
Why refer them? The people AT Fusion would be better at providing this service themselves. Why can’t Hillsong use their funds to help Fusion in the work they have already been doing in that area for years!
Because why would you pay Fusion workers instead of Hillsong ones, right?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Forget Emerge taking Government contracts to provide human services, now you have much older, more established Christian services financially facilitating Hillsong Emerge to provide the services they themselves should be recieving help to run!
Why isn’t it the other way round?
What’s next? Maybe Emerge will eventually usurp Anglicare, UnitingCare & Baptist Community Services, too? & will they PAY them do do it?
July 19th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
“What’s next? Maybe Emerge will eventually usurp Anglicare, UnitingCare & Baptist Community Services, too? & will they PAY them do do it?”
Phil Baker (from Perth’s Revenue Church) has been trying to recruit churches from those denominations into a new organisation (which ..surprise surprise…he would oversee) called New Church Network.
It was supposed to be up and running well before now…but for some reason..not yet explained by Phil or Revenue Church..there’s been no announcement about the new organisation.
Hopefully these mainstream churches got cold feet when they realised that Baker teaches everything else but the gospel.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
It’s ALL about bringing everything under the control of a King. So that there is only one organisation that can hold it’s hand out for Government funds & charitable donations instead of a choice of many.
Ohhhhhhh, grrrrrrrrr let there be a Labor / Greens win in March 07′ & let these people have their power base reversed! If this does not occur the power of the mega-penta-steamrollers will continue to consolidate!
July 19th, 2006 at 6:43 pm
Hillsong - The Movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WEqPgwS4jw
July 19th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Hmmm….
I actually found that production disturbing. I guess that was the intention of it’s author. I thought it would be humorous. A little too dark for me, i’m only interested in political stuff & not exclusively HS at that.
Won’t be watching that again.