Hillsong article
For those that inquired about the Hillsong article which appeared in the Weekend Australian, the Australian (or more particularly the copyright owner) has agreed to permit us to publish the article on this site for everyone to access, for a fee about the cost of a pair of sneakers. This is unfortunately outside of our (non-existent) budget for this site. Could people either comment here or drop me an email if you would be willing to chuck in some money to make this available, or alternatively if you don’t think that it is worth it to do. Ta.
May 18th, 2006 at 1:04 am
DD,
Stop right there, you are being offensive.
Do i seem like a stupid person to you with no introspection? Do you assume that i have not spent years in prayer & therapy & soul-searching & analysing my own family dynamics etc before finally realising i just had to accept myself?
Did you think that by asking the question you just did that i would suddenly say “now that you mention it, i think i might have been abused & THAT’s why i’m so confused! EUREKA! THanks DD i never thought of that!”
I never understood why Lance gets so angry before , but i think i understand him better now.
DD - just a head’s up - if someone gay has grown up in a conservative, tough enviro like Aus - they’ve already looked for every alternate reality they possibly can to get out of what they know about themselves. They’ve panicked & obsessively searched for reasons they might not be gay.
Anything you’ve thought of they’ve already exhuasted - they were well ahead of you.
If you want to converse i will only start with you having an understanding that no “mistake” has occurred. Else we have nothing to say.
May 18th, 2006 at 1:24 am
I had stopped, and was waiting for your answer. Which you have provided thankyou. I had no assumptions at all, when asking that question. I do not keep up to date with current research into sexuality.
When looking for explanations of behaviour there is the obvious distinction between “nature and nurture” (sorry that terminology is a bit old-fashioned - please replace with an up-to-date equivalent). You obviously have given this some thought and cannot find a nurture cause.
I would disagree about the Australia being a “conservative, tough environment”. That’s only true for some areas, sometimes. There is a lot of diversity in this country, however, that diversity does not seem to be reflected in church culture - maybe you are referring to churches.
May 18th, 2006 at 2:40 am
Did you see on Insight last night (topic: Legalisation Gay Marriage & parenting) the young gay couple whom had married overseas & adopted - one of them said he had been an ordained christian minister even though he only looked late 20’s. What a shift! ordained Minister to Gay, Married & a father! He was very articulate, too. He’s now a marriage celebrant.
I’m just watching the Insight progam on-line now (requires broadband or a lot of patience on dial-up).
http://203.15.102.143:8080/ramgen/media/372insight_upload.rm
http://203.15.102.143:8080/ramgen/media/3601insight_upload.rm
An argument against gay marriage cited on the program is that new studies have shown that children do best with a biological mother and a biological father.
I had a biological mother and a biological father and I turned out gay.
Go figure.
May 18th, 2006 at 6:13 am
reve, what price your soul?
May 18th, 2006 at 9:32 am
James,
You are a man of intellect. Don’t throw stuff like that at me.
Only people who wish to keep their distance & not get into the muck of real life use throw-aways like that.
You think saying something like that makes my predicament any easier?
Come on, i challenge anyone here to REALLY deal with me.
May 18th, 2006 at 9:47 am
I’m going to get shot down here, but, I’m going to say my piece, and Ill try to keep it short..unusual, I know. Gentlemen, this is a site where all are welcome. If, however, you feel it is your God given right to come here and try to save our souls from whatever irks you and your spiritual sensitivities, can I politely suggest you go elsewhere. Homer, and all who share your partial concepts of grace, somehow you seem to be able to hijack every thread and turn it into a discussion, no judgement, about gays. I sorry, I’m sick of it. I enjoy the broader discussion here. We know you disagree. We disagree with you. So please, why not just leave Lance and Reve and all of us alone. Leave us a link to your sites, and if we wish to get our souls bloodied we’ll drop by to say hello.
May 18th, 2006 at 9:48 am
Hi Reve,
I don’t have many answers for you at all … you can probably tell from my posts to you that this is just a huge question mark for me. My suggestions about choice are purely theoretical, I think I indicated that it’s easy for me to speculate as I don’t have to go through the same turmoil.
Having said that, I still think it’s worth discussing. As far as showing empathy and humanity - I hope my being a Christian gives me greater ability to do that! I think judgement is something I don’t need to extend, as I’m continually in need of grace myself.
Thanks also for disclosing personal stuff. Helps me understand the issue.
You asked: “The question becomes, should i go without a phsically loving relationship my entire life because i will never be heterosexually married?”
What a tough one! Before I was married, according to my interpretation of the bible I was not supposed to have sex. I got married at 30yrs. That was a loooooong 30 yrs. However it is very true that I had a future prospect of sexual intimacy once I was married.
Are you positive you’ll never be hetro married? Is your orientation entirely same-sex or could you imagine also being attracted to a woman? My reason for asking: a gay female friend who has relationships both straight and gay.
Mate, I genuinely feel for you … I’ve had some tough issues in my life that cause me to look pretty hard at the bible (my brother has had some serious illness his whole life). The more I feel I learn about God, the more I realise I know NOTHING. It’s almost worth giving up trying to work it out.
I guess if you’ve honestly and earnestly prayed that God would enlighten you either way, as its clear you have, then you need to just remain responsive to your conscience. As I said, my aim in discussing this was not to propose an answer but I simply wanted to know how someone in your shoes grappled with the whole issue.
Thanks for being open mate.
May 18th, 2006 at 10:34 am
thankyou, Geoff
I am in tears that you felt to come to our defense.
Sometimes this is portal of Grace & other times just pain. I have trembled with rage & lost sleep over some of the things said here sometimes. I didn’t realise these sort of believers could still get to me even after i physically left the church. Obviously they still can.
Teach me not to doubt everything i’ve learnt through my loneliness, isolation & direct relationship with God minus the props.
Pray that the memory of my pain will be enough to stop me from ever coveting the “neatness” & “trendiness” of doctrine i’ve left behind.
I need to know this wilderness & self-imposed exile is worth it.
May 18th, 2006 at 10:43 am
OK, Rolls,
I accept you’re not proposing easy answers & you have geniune questions.
I believe God blesses you for asking them & not being arrogant.
I’m not going to “experiment’ with someone elses life by heterosexually marrying them. Any woman deserves to know they are dedicating themselves to someone whose psychic energy will be returned at the same level. Surely you agree.
May 18th, 2006 at 10:51 am
what exactly is grace.
It is a gift from god where we recognise our sinful lives and realise that Jesus being raised from the dead means we can be accepted into the Kingdom of God.
We were all sinners some still are and some are sinful saints.
The question is whether one can be a saint whilst defiantly and unrepentantly continuing in a sinful lifestyle.
The answer we get from God courtesy of 1 cor 5 is NO
May 18th, 2006 at 10:55 am
But i must agree with Geoff, we need somewhere safe - one place where we (spiritual refugees) know we won’t be attacked & driven out of yet another place.
Please, keep your questions soft, flexible, warm, loving, non-presumptuous & really be intersted in an answer you wouldn’t get from you’re established church Minister.
If you let us (with you as an interested observer with respectful questions) we’ll help you use our pain to launchpad yourself to a greater ocean of Christian Faith than you’ll ever get wherever you go on a Sunday.
This is fishbowl where you will learn more about the “realities” of God’s people than anywhere else. Honour that, & you yourself will be blessed.
May 18th, 2006 at 11:13 am
Homer. Here’s is Paul’s own response to 1Cor5.
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.
8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf.
12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
13 For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;
14 As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.
15 And in this confidence I was minded to come unto you before, that ye might have a second benefit;
16 And to pass by you into Macedonia, and to come again out of Macedonia unto you, and of you to be brought on my way toward Judaea.
17 When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness? or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay?
18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.
24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
1 But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you in heaviness.
2 For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me?
3 And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.
4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
May 18th, 2006 at 11:29 am
Dear Reve,
Don’t waste your energy trying to reason with the unreasonable. Gays and Lesbians are to Homer and other blind Christians what the Gentiles were to the Jews, in the very early days of the Church. Paul even spoke about the Jews’ blindness to the fact that the Gospel was meant not only for them, but for the Gentiles as well. He recognized that God had called him ( a Jew) to go to the Gentiles with the Gospel. Early on, this caused a great deal of controversy, as the Jewish Christians assumed that the Messiah was meant only for the Jewish Nation. But Paul knew His calling and was faithful to it. I image that a leader will rise up one day, and this leader will most assuredly be Straight, and will faithfully execute his/her calling to take the Gospel to the Gay and Lesbian Nation (the last great harvest field). I just have a feeling it will be just like that. A Jew took the Gospel to the Gentile Nations and a Hetero will take it to the Homo Nation……call me crazy.
In the mean time, don’t dispair over the hurtful, wicked, ungodly words and actions of our straight brothers and sisters. When their eyes are finally opened, some day, their shame will be great. But His grace will continue to abound even more. For now, though, continue to trust in that grace that covers all sin. Allow it to cover you like a blanket. Allow it to close your ears to those lies that say you can never be a child of God or that you are condemned or damned. Reve, you are graced, so don’t allow the gift to be taken from you.
Now close your ears and look the other way…..I need to rebuke Homer (Bring Back EP at LP) again……
Bring Back EP at LP, since you didn’t get it the first time:
You are not God. How arrogant of you to presume to say who can and cannot be a follower of Jesus Christ. Blind brothers like you, full of hatred and bigotry and self-righteousness cause me to burn with anger, wishing you harm. Is that being a good Christian, Homer? Provoking others? Tempting others to sin?!
How I pray that God would smite you with blindness, as He did the Apostle Paul. There was purpose in that, you know. Paul (Saul) was blind to the fact that Jesus really was the Christ, the Savior, the Redeemer. He was a Jew of Jews and rejoiced in the persecution, abuse and murders of the early followers of Jesus. God had to get his attention in a big way before his heart and eyes could be truly open to the truth.
I only feel two emotions for you, Homer: Pity because of the heartbreak you inflict upon our God, and Anger because of the heartbreak you inflict upon your fellow man. (there alone you’ve broken the two greatest commands, according to Jesus. On those two hang the entire Law).
God loves Mercy, Homer. There is none in you (except that with which you grace yourself and YOUR sins). And God loves Justice, Homer. Your idea of justice is warped. I think you believe justice would be served if God destroyed all the Gays and Lesbians of the world, due to their obvious lack of true repentance. That’s pretty sick.
Here’s God’s idea of justice, Homer………Blood.
But not mine, mind you, and not yours…..
It is Jesus’ blood that has justified many, including me. Justice has already been served, for those who’s faith is in Christ alone.
For those of you that continue to persecute, abuse, and murder what belongs to Him (to God), a day of reckoning will soon come. For those of you that continue trying to inflict and implement your idea of justice, penalty and judgement on those already covered and justified by His blood, God’s wrath will break out against you like a fierce Tsunami. Are you so thick headed as to think that your Creator will bow to you, saying, “Yes, Homer, you are right. I suppose I shouldn’t let those dirty nasty Homersexuals into my heaven. Yes, I agree Homer…..Jesus on the Cross was a really big mistake. The “blood thing” just didn’t take with those Homersexuals. Even after they decided to have faith in Jesus, they never did repent (little shits). You’re right Homer. Let’s go with your plan……torch the abominable little sons of bitches. Keep them out of the church. Treat them as the dirt under your feet. Yes, Homer, let’s de-humanize them. Maybe eventually, it will be socially acceptable to murder and enslave them. Your plan for justice is so much better than mine, Homer. What was I ever thinking sending JC to that god forsaken little garbage dump called earth (my creation). Boy I really fucked up with that.”
Pity and Anger, Homer. What a beautiful legacy to leave. Not to be remembered as a kind-hearted, gentle, loving man of faith, but remembered as a Saul. Remembered as persecutor. Remembered as a man that murdered the hope, the purpose, and the spirit of lost men in need of a Savior.
Lance is the apple of God’s eye, you ruthless, brutal, deceiver of men. Don’t you perceive that he is created in His Father’s image? Oh, no…..I forgot. You are blind.
The fierce love that any parent has for his child, is the same love that God has for Lance and has for you and has for me (what’s more, it is a perfect and pure love). I would think twice about laying a finger on a child of God.
What a unique example we see in you, Homer. You’re a tool of the enemy. Insighting man against man, and trying to deny other men and women access to their Creator, their Savoir and their brothers and sisters.
But you are blind to this as well, blinded by the god of this age.
Please understand that when I say this Homer, this isn’t personal (I don’t even know you) and this isn’t really even directed at You, but rather what is in you……
get behind me satan.
May 18th, 2006 at 11:30 am
Sorry folks, one last thing.
Homer, when we break one law, we are guilty of breaking the whole law.
We, in effect become totally seperated from God, not just by the law we have broken, but by all the law. We are guilty of it all. In effect, my friend, that makes you everything we would hate to be. It also makes Lance and Reve and all of us everything we would hate to be. You cannot be an unrepenatnt sinner or a repentant saint. We are a sinners saved by grace, we are not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God to salvation. We are saved by grace, not by works. We confess Christ as our saviour. We, you and I, have been seperated from our sins as the east is from the west. We have life in the son.
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
15″We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
17″If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[d]
Is that enough scripture for you?
Sorry everybody, I am grieved and I could not stand it any longer. I’ll shut up now.
May 18th, 2006 at 11:36 am
Letter to EP
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I
>have learned a great deal from your posts, & I try to share that
>knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend
>the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that
>Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
>
>I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific
>laws & how to follow them.
>
>1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
>pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors.
>They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
>
>2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
>Exodus 21:7. In this day & age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
>
>3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
>period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do
>I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
>
>4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male &
>female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend
>of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
>Why can’t I own Canadians?
>
>5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
>clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to
>kill him myself?
>
>6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
>abomination (Lev. 11:10), it’s a lesser abomination than homosexuality.
>I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
>
>7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have
>a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does
>my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some room for negotiation here?
>
>8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
>around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27.
>How should they die?
>
>9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes
>me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
>
>10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
>different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments
>made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also
>tends to curse & blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to
>all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them
>(Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family
>affair like we do w/people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?
>
>I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you
>can help.
>Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal & unchanging.
:o)
May 18th, 2006 at 11:39 am
Great call, Geoff…..I totally missed that approach (and Jesus was the one who taught it to us when He was in the wilderness): To answer the enemy with scripture; Christianity 101. How silly do I feel?
Thanks for the lesson, Geoff.
May 18th, 2006 at 11:41 am
Dear Geoff, don’t feel you need to shut up. Most of us are standing and cheering, not because we don’t know what sin is, but precisely because we do. The day I have the right to condemn my gay brothers who seek a Saviour’s face is the day that I delude myself that I do not live constantly in sin, that every moment of my life is not lived a long way short of the command to love my God with everything I am, and my neighbour as myself. Salvation is for those who have no righteousness of their own, and know it, and tremble in horror at it, but, in spite of what they are, are lifted up by nail-scarred hands and held in God’s embrace. salvation is not for those who have cleaned up their act, but for those who never can. That is the meaning of mercy, that is the meaning of grace .. that is who the real chuerch are ..
May 18th, 2006 at 11:42 am
what exactly is grace.
It is a gift from god where we recognise our sinful lives and realise that Jesus being raised from the dead means we can be accepted into the Kingdom of God.
We were all sinners some still are and some are sinful saints.
Homer you ahve absolutley no understanding of what grace is and is not - grace is not that we recognise our sinful lives, or that we believe that Jesus rose from the dead so that we can be accepted into the kingdom of heaven -
Grace is the unmerited and undeserved favour bestowed upon us by God. Get it through your thinckie type fatty sport of heady thing on your shuolder wotsits - WE DO NOT DO ANYTHING THAT CAN ATTRACT OR REPEL GODS GRACE - all the rules you tell us we have to obey to be loved by God are utter nonsense.
May 18th, 2006 at 11:44 am
oops! and I trust grace covers typos too!
May 18th, 2006 at 11:45 am
Reve……you are friggin hysterical. You are not to be underestimated.
Well said, my brother.
May 18th, 2006 at 11:47 am
TABY - at 253 - that’s some of the most moving stuff I’ve read in a long time.
May 18th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
Thanks TABY!
May 18th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
TABY, Reve, Geoff, Bec, Lance…actually I’ve got nothing to say…I just like writing lists of peoples names
May 18th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Geoff,
you still do not understnd the difference.
Greg,
oops grace does what? give you faith in Jesus because of what?
We need to faith because of what?
Jesus ressurections means what?
Yes it is all realted.
Funny about that. nothing about the law except that the law condemns us.
Dunno where you got that but they are poor teachers up north.
That is why we had to plant churches there!
May 18th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Romans 13:10 - “Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God’s requirements.”
The law of love has replaced all of the law. Generally speaking, a moral life is the best expression of love - but not always. It’s not that simple. Sometimes the principle of love means that morality is not possible or applicable. Do you think that God needs our morality - or even died for it?
The most loving thing is to journey with people, accept them just as they are and try to understand. Condemnation is exactly what the Pharisees did. I so don’t want to be like them….
May 18th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
no Wayne the pharisees caused people to break the law whilst believing they were upholding the law.
Kinda sounds familiar doesn’t it
May 18th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
#Comment 219. Grace Required:
Did anyone catch the programme on SBS last night about Opus Dei?
Had a friend in Chile reply “Yes, They are almost controlling the whole country, in the schools, the universities, etc. (snip)*******(snip) The military Christian are very pursued by the Catholic church in Chile. I am alone in this battle, I have the entire Catholic organization against me, but I can do much, with Christ who strengthens me.”
Please pray for my brother in Chile.
May 18th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
Homer,
“no Wayne the pharisees caused people to break the law whilst believing they were upholding the law. Kinda sounds familiar doesn’t it ”
You are right Homer it does sound familiar. You seem to want to insist that your gospel of no grace is upholding the law when actually it breaks the new law.
May 18th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
No phil all that is happening is that you have no idea of what unrepentant sin is.
I have never denied grace but grace begets faith. This is incompatible with unrepentance as Paul and Jesus makes clear.
May 18th, 2006 at 7:31 pm
I have never denied grace but grace begets faith. This is incompatible with unrepentance as Paul and Jesus makes clear.
So you can therefore tell us exactly what sin you’ve repented of in the past 2 years, and how you’ve become more Christ-like in that time.