Jesus Creed
This creed by Brian McLaren was posted up in this thread by Nilmot.
The Jesus Creed
This creed was originally shared at the Emergent Convention, Nashville, May 2004.
By Brian McLaren
We have confidence in Jesus
Who healed the sick, the blind, and the paralyzed.
And even raised the dead.
He cast out evil powers and
Confronted corrupt leaders.
He cleansed the temple.
He favored the poor.
He turned water into wine,
Walked on water, calmed storms.
He died for the sins of the world,
Rose from the dead, and ascended to the Father,
Sent the Holy Spirit.
We have confidence in Jesus
Who taught in word and example,
Sign and wonder.
He preached parables of the kingdom of God
On hillsides, from boats, in the temple, in homes,
At banquets and parties, along the road, on beaches, in towns,
By day and by night.
He taught the way of love for God and neighbor,
For stranger and enemy, for outcast and alien.
We have confidence in Jesus,
Who called disciples, led them,
Gave them new names and new purpose
And sent them out to preach good news.
He washed their feet as a servant.
He walked with them, ate with them,
Called them friends,
Rebuked them, encouraged them,
Promised to leave and then return,
And promised to be with them always.
He taught them to pray.
He rose early to pray, stole away to desolate places,
Fasted and faced agonizing temptations,
Wept in a garden,
And prayed, “Not my will but your will be done.”
He rejoiced, he sang, he feasted, he wept.
We have confidence in Jesus,
So we follow him, learn his ways,
Seek to obey his teaching and live by his example.
We walk with him, walk in him, abide in him,
As a branch in a vine.
We have not seen him, but we love him.
His words are to us words of life eternal,
And to know him is to know the true and living God.
We do not see him now, but we have confidence in Jesus.
Amen.”
May 8th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
Great, but the Apostle’s creed is shorter
May 9th, 2006 at 9:40 am
Puts a lot of pressure on the word ‘confidence’. I have confidence that Collingwood will win. I have confidence that my essay will pass. I have confidence in the rescuers of the miners in Tasmania. Seems inadequate to me, especially after what we have learned through the search for the historical Jesus/ Jesus Seminar over the past 15 years. And seems still to be captured by the segregation of belief to the private domain and doesn’t present the gospels claim to the public realm. Hmmmmm. I think Brian may have developed that one late one night in a hotel room with a nice cigar and a whiskey. Like PZ I’ll stick with the apostles and Nicene Creeds!
May 9th, 2006 at 9:48 am
Why do we need a creed? Creeds are always laced with bad theology.
This one features atonement, which is always a poor fit for the question “Why did jesus have to die?” Atonement presupposes that we are all sinful, even babies at birth, and it limits God to a means of sacrificial forgiveness. It surprises me that some Christians believe God created the world, but couldn’t forgive sin without the death and suffering of Jesus Christ.
May 9th, 2006 at 10:46 am
Why do you think Jesus had to die Nahum?
May 9th, 2006 at 11:10 am
Hi guys, have you read: “A New Kind of Christian – A tale of Two Friends on a Spiritual Journey”,
Having skim read the book i am absolutely convinced that McLaren is entirely sold out to the Post-Modernist philosophy. His hero Neo, reminiscent of the Matrix, embraces all paths to God, mocks at the bible relegating its status to that of any other book of wisdom, mocks at fundamental Christians and, to my way of thinking is one of the most dangerously deceiving pieces of anti-christ literature.
It seems to me that the most successful deception is 99% truth! McLaren’s book is only about, say, 80% truth. It really warrants a critical review - followed by a ritual burning!
Urbanmonk, on another thread asked if the body of Christ is sold out to post-modernism. McLaren is a champion of the post-modern philosophy.
If this is the same Brian McLaren that submitted the above creed, i would read it then discard it as i would any other document coming from a known unreliable source.
Just my opinion - and in love, of course!
May 9th, 2006 at 11:24 am
By the way, “a new kind of christian ..” was written by Brian McLaren.
Just read his “creed” a little more closely - same sort of shadows of truth - its what the “creed” doesnt spell out that is potentially more dangerous than its warm and fuzzy portrayal of Christ! For example: “he died for the sins of the world”; but says nothing about the benefit of that death may be appropriated by the individual sinner … or is he susgesting universalism?
Flee! In love of course
May 9th, 2006 at 11:28 am
Thanks for that James. I called Koorong to check if they had the book in stock last week and I was told that it was “blocked”. The woman on the phone didn’t know why, but I think that your comment sheds some light.
May 9th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
Hey Daniel, thanks for the feedback - one wonders why. McLaren’s book was, i was informed by a CoC minister, sent by the state executive to every minister of the Churches of Christ in Queensland - with their apparent endorsement.
I have just now phoned our local Koorong, the lady said it was available but quite expensive and there would be a long order time … if i was conspiracy theorist … i would say she seemed to be trying to disuade me from ordering. Mmmmmm??? Probably nothing in it. I’ll let you know if i find a ready source; would appreciate vice versa.
Andrew makes a good point on the use of “confidence”! Where is the Cross, where is Absolute Trust in where is … On closer reading of the “new age creed” … oops, did i say “new age” … sure did!
May 9th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Ha! That would be so funny if Koorong ‘blocked’ McLaren and not the 80% of stock that they sell that is just total bollocks with worse theology! Somehow, if the stock turns over and makes them a buck… I think they will sell it!
May 9th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
Of course the Athanasian Creed is also worth a glance.
Going through the historical confessions, creeds, catechisms and canons is not only alliterative, but can be a good way to sort through the ‘issues of the day’ back in the day.
On ‘confidence’ … I prefer terms like knowledge, conviction, assurance - confidence is just as good I suppose, but it feels like less than 100%
eg “I know my wife loves me” vs “I’m confident my wife loves me”.
May 9th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
Just picked up a copy of McLaren’s “a generous orthodoxy” from Koorong. Will give some feedback, possibly on the morrow. On the surface, reads like a post-modern gnostic heresy … Let you know if it improves!
May 10th, 2006 at 1:56 pm
James I’ve read the book and I really can’t remember when Neo embraces all paths to God or mocks the Bible? Am also struggling to see how its Anti-Christ literature? Seems to be on about Jesus to me.
Don’t know how you can say somebody’s books should be burnt in love, but maybe thats just me.
Also, why is post-modrn philosophy any more evil than any other philosophy/way of thinking thats ever existed?
May 10th, 2006 at 11:05 pm
I think I may be siding with digger here, are you under forty digger? I bet you are..Dont forget, Jimbo, that Augustine the Heretical Catholic Father who endorsed beating confessions of Faith from people, among other things we wouldnt look sideways at today, was formed a great deal by the Philosophies of his day. they mark even his hard won Christian faith. Paul engaged with the Philosophies of the day ( Mars hill) and saw the good in them that Led to guess who…? the Alpha and the Omega.
When I read his lifes journey though,( augustine) I see a hard won and rigourous faith that was REAL, and authentic, if not given birth to with much labor.. The danger with dismissing philosophy as evil is that you completely shut off dialogue.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:19 am
Monk and Digger, are you demanding a reasoned challenge to McLaren’s philosophy? Are you unwilling to blindly accept my repudiation of McLaren?
Fair comment. Im hoping to read McLaren’s “a generous orthodoxy” over the next couple of days - may gain more of an idea of his world view. Have either of you guys read this?
Monk, you diverge from the “new type of christian” thesis when you state:
“Paul engaged with the Philosophies of the day ( Mars hill) and saw the good in them that Led to guess who…? the Alpha and the Omega.”
The Athenians were somewhat post modern; accepting and intergrating all forms of faiths. Paul didnt ridicule them, showed them respect, but then proceded to argue that there was “One way, Jesus” … this is entirely anti-postmodernity! One could say Paul gently led the philosophers of the day from post-modernity to evangelical fundamentalism. McLaren goes in the other direction … embracing and integrating the gods of Mars Hill!
Digger, i enjoy a bit of the dramatic, there are probably better uses for McLaren’s book … door stop … My argument with McLaren is quite well summed by Andrew’s #2 critique of McLaren’s “creed”. On thes surface it reads quite nicely. When you look a little more closely you find that Christ is being denied His Lordship and His Deity, repentance is never mentioned and the Cross is robbed of its centrality. I found the same to be true of “a new kind of christian” … an entertaining read, but a dilution of Christ.
Nite all
May 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
Jimbo: “His words are to us words of life eternal,
And to know him is to know the true and living God.”
Doesnt it juat say the same thing in different language? This, to me affirms Jesus as Deity, the ONE way, ONE truth, ONE life - Jesus.
I shouldnt really comment coz I havent read McClarens book. And I dont really want to.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Monk, he could be saying “the same thing in a different language.” I’m not interested in critiquing McLaren per se; just interested in the impact upon “christianity” of postmodern philosophy which, by the very definition of post-modernism, demands the relegation of Christ to A Truth, rather than The Truth. Sure, the postmodern thesis will allow you to affirm that Jesus is The Truth to YOU; you are simply not allowed to state that Jesus is The Truth as for other Budda etc are equally deemed to be The Truth.
I may have misread McLaren, especially as “a new kind of christian …” was a work of fiction. His “a generous orthodoxy” appears to set forth his theology and, as such, should shed some further light on his world view. I will withhold further comment on his teaching till ive had a chance to read it.
But Monk, its never been about McLaren or any other person, to me the issue is summed up: Is Jesus The Christ; is Jesus The Son of God; is Jesus The Truth etc. I believe He is; my theology may be pretty stuffed in a lot of areas, but one thing i know; I know in whom i have believed. Now if Christ is not The Truth (Deity, Saviour, all He claimed to be) and if salvation is not entirely by grace, through faith in Him and even that faith not of my own but a gift from Him, then i am lost - for He is my only hope and in hope against hope i wait for His promise. Both in this life (albeit with oft accompanying despair) or in the life to come.
If Jesus is The Truth, then all the philosophies of man that are not founded in Him are to my mind nothing more than men deluding themselves and/or chasing after phantoms. So, to my mind, to seek to establish the veracity of the words of Jesus (and in a broader sense, the bible) may well be the most valuable pursuit of mankind.
May 11th, 2006 at 6:19 pm
fyi, here is a link to an interestig critique of Mclaren’s “a generous orthodoxy.” http://www.bpnews.net/bpcolumn.asp?ID=1756
May 11th, 2006 at 8:34 pm
Too late , Jim, our culture already has relegated Jesus to A Truth.. In the first century he was new, now, he is old. If Jesus is The TRUTH, let the truth speak, the mistake of engaging the world we live in, ( post Modernism) is to barricade ourselves behind cardboard cut outs of The TRUTH. Post modernism laughs at such flimsy things. the hard thing to do is to allow our selves to fall into the supposed abyss that post modernism is purported to be. Will the TRUTH catch us Jim?
One of my favourite songs about Jesus is by powderfinger. a good picture of the searching post modernist.
“Oh Jesus Christ, what name do you go by now?
For time is passing, wind blows new decrees.
Canned for life, your used by date is faded
and followers of you now watch tv.”
Thats TRUTH Jim…
But so is this…
The end of the song finishes with Bernard Fanning still a little disturbed,
“On my own i stand naked…
Oh Jesus Christ, dont look at me that way,
Dont look at me that way..”
Im afraid we already live in a post modern world. Battening down the hatches of truth wont help. Engaging with a little more openness to the questions being asked in the world we live in might.
May 11th, 2006 at 9:33 pm
OK Monk, can we try to get a bit of clarity here; let me inside your thinking a bit more. Say, for example, if Jesus is A Truth rather than The Truth then it follows logically that there must be other equally valid Truths (remembering that we use Truth as a synonym for Deity, Saviour and all Jesus claimed to be). As a reference point then; can you suggest another Truth by whom one might experience salvation and relationship to God.
Im not trying to push here, just trying to understand. For the postmodern world view to have any validity then there must be alternative Truths by which one might come into relationship with God …
May 11th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
All i am saying Jim, is that post modernism is the World we live in. Im not saying that Jesus is just another truth among many, but to everbody else, he is. Which i was attempting to illustrate in the above powderfinger quote, ( from the albumn, double allergic, if any bodys interested)
The debate must be entered from the post modern door, otherwize, you will be like one of those guys in bourke st mall in melbourne who stand there all day from morning to night reading the Bible from a mega phone, claiming to be speaking the TRuth.. with a capital T. Nobody will give you the time of day, let alone listen to what you have to say. I only believe this coz its my everday experience. I learned it the hard way..
Jim, Im talking about how does the Truth, with a capital T (The Gospel of Salvation in Jesus) engage with a world that is searching for Truth with a capital T, but is skeptical of any claim to Truth with a Capital T.
its a mighty difficult task, and the hole business of Creeds and foundational belifs are obviously important…
“For the postmodern world view to have any validity then there must be alternative Truths by which one might come into relationship with God …”
For the post modern mind, ( the minds that we talk to every day) there ARE alternative truths. But not necessarily Truths that bring one into relationship with God.
Its a real big conversation, and too big for me to get my puny mind around. Ive just given up trying to fight the whole world.. with my puny little matchstick faith. TRUTH is not for me to gaurd.
The truth is out there, Jim…
May 11th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
Jim, perhaps the creeds would have more validity to the post modern mind if instead of insisting that Jesus is the ONLY TRUTH. We simply stated, “I believe in Jesus.” In him, I see, find, exxperience, connection with God.. That is My truth.. and left it at that. Leave conviction and wooing to truth for the Wonderful Counsellor.. The world is sick to death of dogmatic people….
May 11th, 2006 at 11:27 pm
No dispute with this, “post modernism is the World we live in. Im not saying that Jesus is just another truth among many, but to everbody else, he is.”
Monk, you make some good points in #20 and #21. Different to what i thought you were saying; at the same time consistent with your previous posts. I had just missed what you were saying; no need to talk to me about puny minds.
On the issue of engaging with those who are seeking Truth, the example of Paul on Mars hill is appropo. He begins by commending the people for being in the search for truth, then without maligning or ridiculing them for their worship of all sorts of stone gods, he begins to unfold for them the message concerning The Truth. Hey, just re-read your #13 … thort somebody else had been commenting along this same line … im laughing at my own silly self now.
Its been good engaging with you Monk; need to think snooze soon.