Those flingin flangin emerging churches
Greg the explorer sent me a link to this article which seems concerned to put several nails in the coffin of the emerging church:
In the UK, a nudist beach mission has just finished in Wales. Graceway, a church in Auckland, New Zealand, encouraged its members to ‘pray with your hand around a cup of coffee’ as a way of experiencing the Spirit ‘as warmth in your spirituality’. In Canada, a church called Worship Free House doesn’t offer sermons – but does install art.
According to prominent evangelical church leaders, all are symptomatic of a dangerous protest against biblical orthodoxy. While The Da Vinci Code puts the gospel on trial, the emerging church questions established biblical teaching throughout church history by offering what they says is a more authentic expression of Christianity.
“Some believe [emerging churches] to be the greatest challenge to mainstream churches since the birth of the Charismatic movement,” says Andy Peck, assistant editor of the UK’s Christianity+Renewal magazine in a recent article. “As some churches struggle to grow they will welcome emerging church thinking with open arms. ”Labels are useless to describe this alternative Christian movement, which has exploded out of the UK and the US and is now expanding into Australia.
Proponents like to talk in terms of ‘connecting’, ‘sharing’, ‘re-imagining’. They say the movement is not one as such but rather a ‘conversation’ within Protestant Christianity. They say labels are unhelpful to their cause. It is perhaps easier to define what the emergent movement is not. “This is not biblical theology,” says Canon Jim Ramsay, Director of Sydney Diocese’s Evangelism Ministries. “It’s a shaking of Christian orthodoxy.”
Punch ‘em in the goolies!! Singled out for criticism (implied or otherwise) are people like Cheryl, Steve (or Graceway, anyway), Darren and of course big bad bustling Brian McLaren. Interestingly, the only person on that list who has never commented here is Brian McLaren. He should get his act together. Or alternatively, he should stay away so that he doesn’t contaminate us with his non-orthodox Christianity.
Of course they are particularly worried about a Wales naturist beach mission, described here in an article published on April Fools’ Day, complete with founders Adam and Eve and a Sir Pent who invites Eve to pass some fruit to Adam. Clearly the site which published the article, emergingchurch.info is evil, as it has the temerity to list signposts as a link!
August 12th, 2006 at 9:29 am
There was an elderly woman at a friends church who was very poor. She tithed every week, the elders were concerned as she was in a very bad way. They went to her house one night and asked her to stop tithing as she needed the money, and the church wanted her to take care of herself.
She began to weep. She told them that she had nothing, she had no possesions, she had no family, and now the church was taking away even her ability to give. She felt completely worthless.
I believe that church could have done a much more honoring, job of dealing with this situation. They would have been much better served in taking her tithe but giving her much more in assistance, and even just support. But when speaking about poorer people we need to be careful that we don’t make their contributions seem insignificant.
rev
August 12th, 2006 at 11:08 am
Rev,
That is a sad story.
Maybe a “works” culture (incl. Tithing) was what was ‘robbing’ this woman of her joy and her ‘worth’ …. if she really understood the Gospel of Grace then perhaps she would find her worth in Christ, Christ alone, and the fact that he found her ‘worthy’ of dying for.
Dodgy doctrine really is a curse - as it places heavy burdens on people.
August 12th, 2006 at 11:27 am
Possibly it’s a response to legalism… her grief is suggestive of needing something worthwhile to do, rather than basking in the grace and love of Christ.
This did make me think, however, of II Corinthians 8:
” 1 And now, brothers, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. 2 Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. 3 For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, 4 they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the saints. 5 And they did not do as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then to us in keeping with God’s will. ”
Let’s not rush to judge. Perhaps this was a life giving joy for her… maybe she had a vocation of giving.
Whatever the source of her sacrifice, whether heartfelt generosity or legalism, it certainly wasn’t handled well! She gave all she had to give, and it was rejected. No wonder she felt crushed.
August 12th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
Well the tone in which the story was told it seemed to her the one way in which she could show her love for God and His kingdom. I understand the idea of legalism being a burden, and I hate it as well. But my love for my wife and he love for me is not based on works, yet I still want to demonstrate my love for her in tangible ways besides just telling her. It would be frustrating for me if I was unable to hug her, to buy her a gift, to give her a massage, or maybe some other kind of physical kind of thing that might involve special sleeping atire, candles and some soft music
rev
August 12th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Just becasue people do not have extra cash laying around does not mean they cannot know the joy of “it is better to give than to receive” When someone with little money gives all, it is a sign that they have been delivered from the love of it. Sometimes we encourage people to be stingy because they are on the low end of the scale. The best givers I know are poor and they amaze me in giving to others. They are also quick to respond to others who need food or gas money. To not love money when you need it yourself and be free to give it, now that IS freedom.
August 12th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
I agree Kevin.
And to have more than you will ever need and to share only a small portion of it is the epitomy of bondage. And to teach others that this is God’s blessing is flat out evil.
rev
August 12th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
I would agree. I have been blessed by some very poor people - especially when I was in the Phillipinnes.
But back to my protest againist the Church and Tithing … 1) It is still based on dodgy and manipulative theology 2) The Tithe was meant to be a blessing to the poor - those who did not have to tithe 3) Current manipulation coupled with dodgy theology and a lack of transparency means a few at the top are getting wealthy by some very dubious means.
I believe that the whole concept of Christian Stewardship should be explored for our times. If we could come up with a system that did the work of God in alignement with NT teaching that would be great.
The closest thing that I have seen to the concept of the ’storehouse’ is organisations such as Worldvision, where only 10% of proceeds go towards admin, marketing and salaries etc. The rest is distributed … and worldvision do not even compel people to “tithe’.
August 12th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
See, I see giving at our church that is very “new testement”. When there are needs among the community people give to those needs, sometimes with money sometimes with service. We also make donations to World Vision, UNOH, Gatehouse ect. We all live fairly humble lifestyles that give us more time out of the rat race, to spend time with each other and hurting people. We give not to support some infrastructure, but rather to meet needs. And we encourage each other to be responsive to God’s leading by giving generously as we are lead.
The focus on the five percent of churches that are so large and have so much income that they make people wealthy is necessary for correction, but until we do away with this Constantinian reliance on large infrastructures, buildings and programs, we will continue to put the biggest degree of our cash into salaries, buildings, and things like childcare and parking lots.
This is more than just a theology issue, it is an issue of structure.
rev
August 12th, 2006 at 11:15 pm
But we need large buildings - this way we can teach people that their “ministry” may be cleaning the toilets. And without a parking lot - or car park as some of you say, we would displace the guys with the orange vests and flashlights who are in the “parking lot MINISTRY”.
August 12th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
This is more than just a theology issue, it is an issue of structure
I might add it is the result of chistian culture and the desire for men to have approval of other men. Spent last night with a man that few of you would know, his father was apioneer in the prophetic and healing ministry in the US and the world really. Their life was one of following the Lord living in the car and getting just enough to do what they needed with at the time. This man (his son) can go to about any of their churches and speak, but he goes to few because he says so many lack character and are chasing the money. well, I am off to a staff meeting with the ushers and parking lot attendants.
August 13th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Can you guys be thinking about me at about from 5 onwards & pray as well? I cannot stand the emptiness of not fellowshipping with other christians anymore & am going to make first contact (attend for the first time) a church that i think i might be ok with.
I have spent all day praying, weeping & reflecting over it & i feel God is telling me to give it a try so strongly that it is emotionally overwhelming.
I’m scared as heck about it. I feel just like a scared, insecure little boy. I have no idea what they will make of me, or i them.
God is definitely doing something, i have recieved a text from an old friend today with whom my best friendship collapsed years ago, telling me that he has given up his high-paid job in Car Sales & finished his rental lease to become a full-time live-in volunteer Mentor for the Sallies.
For some reason this broke me down. Something has cracked inside of me. I had a type of catharsis. I have been on my knees in tears about it.
Surely God will not lead me somewhere i cannot handle, or somewhere where dissapointment will push me further away?
I will log on & tell you all later tonight when i get home. Just please pray for me that i can be real with these people & not throw false guards up. And that they will accept & welcome the reality of me.
August 13th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Reve,
Saying prayer now so 5 o’clock won’t sneak past me.
Grace
August 13th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
Thanks, Grace..
August 13th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
I will be praying for you. Think of this like a journey, and you are taking your first steps. Who knows where you will end up, but for now it is the direction you are moving, not the destination, nor the rest stop you need worry about. I really hope it goes well for you my brother.
rev
August 13th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Thanks, Rev you’ll find out soon enough!
August 13th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Just caught up with this in time.
Know that I’ll be praying for you, that God’s mercy will go before you and surround you, that these people will be to you all that they should be in Christ, and you will have great discernment to know whether this is the right place for you to be.
August 13th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
Oh Reve, I’m sorry, I didn’t read this until 5 pm had passed. I really, really hope it went well for you…
August 13th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Thanks for everyone’s prayers & thoughts.
Actually it went ok,………….. more than ok.
Lots of ppl around my age. Was greeted by at least seven people. Met another Gay Christian whom had been attending for over three years (& everyone knows he’s gay). Spoke to at least two others whom had ended up there because of dissapointment with mainstream. Heard of others who were there for the same reason.
Liked the structure, teaching style, the food, the red wine, & the people actually had a brain. No hyper-emotionalism there!
I have just spent the 2 hours following the conclusion of the “service” in a coffee shop with a bunch of people i only met 4 hours before.
I’d rather not say where i’m attending for the time being.
Point is, it’s a start.
Cheers again, guys. Knowing i had a safe, caring place to launchpad from, & return to to report was a big part of where the courage came from.
August 13th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
Off to bed, possibilities in my head.
Night all’
August 14th, 2006 at 12:22 am
Night Reve. Its good having you here.
August 14th, 2006 at 8:08 am
That is very good to hear.
rev
August 14th, 2006 at 9:22 am
Reve,
that’s fantastic. i can’t imagine the courage it took to do that!
August 14th, 2006 at 10:32 am
Woo Hoo Reve - I was so filled with joy as I read these last few posts - I’m sitting in my office andI’m glad I don;t share it ’cause my eyes are teared up. This is a great step for you mate and I am hugely glad it went well…to borrow a Hill$ong phrase…that’s awesome!!!
August 14th, 2006 at 11:32 am
A New Work begins………………….
August 14th, 2006 at 11:35 am
I now have a new interest in Forge Training, can anyone advise what training / workshops will occur in NSW (preferrably in & around Syd) in the near future. I understand something is supposed to happen in Nov but i can’t see exactly where or what on the website.
August 14th, 2006 at 11:47 am
Yeah the website really sucks now. We are trying to get a new one set up, and hopefully it will be soon.
If you would like to talk more specifically about FORGE you can email me, or talk to the gentleman I put you in contact with. He is also the co-ordinater for FORGE NSW
rev
August 14th, 2006 at 11:50 am
Gotcha
Thanks Rev.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
There’s a Forge intensive happening in Sydney in November - I will email the details to Dan who can forward them on to you.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
Excellent! that’s what i want! Thanks.
August 15th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
I understand that M.Frost’s book “Longing For Love” (1996/7?) addreses sexuality for Christians & until i can lay my hands on a copy of it can anyone who has read it or has a copy tell me whether it addresses homosexuality?