virtual church
I have been asked to speak at a conference called ‘virtual church’
It is a one day conference: 29 June 2006, Melbourne which will likely be held at Northern Community Church of Christ. Their web site blurb introduces the conference as:
“Internet · email · SMS · blogs · podcasts—new communication technologies are changing the way we relate to each other. At the same time, young Christians are creating new kinds of faith communities, new ways of “being church”. As we experiment, what are we learning about ourselves and about God?”
One of the links on the web site is to this article titled “how far can a Church go online?”.
“It all depends on how one defines “church”. Christians would probably describe it as the collective body of Christ, gathering together to praise God, taking part in the sacraments and the form of service enjoyed in their chosen fellowship. So, can that reality be extended to a “virtual” community in cyber-space?
In this age of the Internet, many churches advertise their services and events “online”. That is pretty normal and church webpages have become the current equivalent of posters in public spaces. But, what about complete Christian communities that exist only online; can these truly be called “church”? Could it be that the church is transforming itself so that whole communities, linked only in cyber-space, will be the new denominations of the twenty-first century? After all, we bank online, we shop online. Can we effectively “do church” online too? Or is church different?
Part of being involved in a local church is the personal interaction, friendship and support of like-minded people. It could be argued that cyber-churches are seeking to provide this for both those who have no experience of church - or the gospel - and for those who are disillusioned with organized Christianity.
For whatever reason, there are numerous people for whom traditional church no longer seems relevant; many of them feel more comfortable surfing the net than they would if invited to visit their local place of worship. So, is church transforming itself to meet a need? Is cyber-church an effective substitute, or replacement for the traditional community? Or is it an “extra”? “
The question of whether Christian intentional community can happen online is an interesting one. Some people here have mused that some of the elements of Church are provided by signposts and one person even said to me recently that signposts was like another one of our congregations at Northern. So what do you think?
May 14th, 2006 at 11:59 am
I stumbled upon this link today and I highly recommend it.
However, only those who are secure in their faith should view such material.
http://www.lulu.tv/?p=603
I must have laughed out loud for half an hour after watching this.
I had never seen it before. I don’t think I have laughed like this since I left the church.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:50 am
James,
I would agree that we don’t all have to be great evangelists/pastors … in fact, my general inclination is that we do more good without the titles. It’s also true that you can offer some good via the website. But the collective have some real advantages … I’m also not talking “Vision” stuff here … an simple example would be providing a food van to feed the homeless. Those sorts of excercises are always easier as part of a team. The secular world understands that idea, and we see teams in action everywhere.
As for the veil of anonymity, yep, it can help when a wounded person needs to vent. We’ve all been there. However I wonder how many of your closest relationships with friends would exist if you remained anonymous from them? Again, there is an element of vulnerability, but being quietly accountable to someone you trust can definately help in developing integrity. From personal experience (like many on Signposts) I know this trust can be abused, and it’s always sad when it happens. But even that risk doesn’t discount its value.
I actually don’t think we disagree to much, the only different opinion we prob have is that I think this is “complimentary” to existing as part of a church (in all it’s variations), whereas I presume you see it as a church in itself. If that’s our only point of difference, I say we settle it over a beer and an arm wrestle.
May 15th, 2006 at 8:23 pm
I wonder if phil and dan have noticed that “virtual church” has suffered violence at the hands of “cyber church”.
Rollsy, we agree on the titles thing too. Jesus said dont be called father or rabbi or master and the reason … the pharisees who love accolades from men, but you guys have only one Father and Rabbi and Master and you are all on the same level (my paraphrase). So why is it men demand titles today? Could be an expression of their being on the same level as all other believers … lets not go here! Why do we insist on being theologians of convenience?
Better be careful, all this agreeing …
Then of course there is, I actually don’t think we disagree to much
Im pleased to discover that you are not too wrong
LOL
May 21st, 2006 at 2:42 am
Hi there. I’m new here. My name is Gráinne (Irish for Grace).
I have been part of the Church in various forms for almost all my life. In the last 2 years, I’ve not participated in face to face church much. Depression mainly. Then moving to Melbourne (from Perth). During that time, I’ve been part of two significant online communities that I’d like to mention.
The first is a fan club. It was born out of Australian Idol (believe it, or not). Out of our online discussions with each other (forum, chat rooms and live journals), many of us have formed significant friendships. Two couples are married or plan to marry. We have had two national get-togethers, both at Easter. We had over 100 people from all over Australia at the first. And about 40 at the second - from 12 years to retirees. There are lots of local get-togethers. At one of our national events, two people recognised each other. They live two doors apart, but had never met (except online).
We have been through much joy and pain together. A number of the younger members struggle with self-harming, with normal teen angst, with depression or anxiety and some with abuse, or the consequences of abuse. While I have on one occasion involved police, mostly the older group members have been wise shoulders to cry on and sources of advice and love. The younger ones are watching and learning and often are brilliantly supportive of us oldies when we’re going through it! The online aspect diminishes age differences.
As forum moderators, we took a pretty firm line early on - to limit nastiness and obscenity. We wanted the site to be safe for kids (and for adults!). We’ve had to negotiate lots of disagreements among members (there are over 1800, but about 150 in the core). It’s certainly not an easy thing. But, we’ve discovered that these relationships have the power to be extremely hurtful or extremely beneficial. In some ways, communicating in the written word means that we disclose a lot of ourselves. For many, we disclose more than we would if we had to say things aloud.
I have been called an “e-Pastoress” by one non-Christian forum member. I try not to talk Jesus all the time, but so often it flows naturally to encourage someone out of my faith in Him. I have had the privilege of befriending a number of gay and lesbian people and sharing with them the love of Christ. They know my beliefs don’t sit easily with their lifestyles. But, they are very accepting of me and I have seen spiritual hunger for God. I use Scripture often to communicate to people suffering: how God formed them in their mother’s womb and how precious they are to Him.
I also speak with a number of very intelligent atheists, who WANT to talk about Christianity. Indeed, I resisted entering one discussion on the forum for several weeks, fearing that I would become embroiled in a debate about issues that, ultimately, aren’t that important, but fuelled by feelings that are. In the end, I accepted the invitation of two members to participate, and decided not to address all the arguments, but rather to introduce my God by means of a story. I was deeply touched by how people were soft, having heard my take on Jesus in Mark 5 - the woman who bled for 12 years and Jairus’ daughter.
I have had opportunity to pray for a friend suffering severe post traumatic stress (post-abuse), and fighting the urge to hurt herself. Via MSN chat, I typed my prayer for her. She kept it. Later, she created a live journal for me, and put Psalm 139 in as my “bio”. She called my journal “Fearlessly and Wonderfully Made”.
I won’t go on about the other community. It is an international community of Christians with mental health issues. (For me, it is depression). Let’s just say, we share in some of the most profound times of peoples lives. To the surprise of many of my friends IRL (in real life), my online relationships are real too. Thanks.
May 21st, 2006 at 2:52 am
Oops - Re accountability. Exclusion is the ultimate measure. Limitations can be placed on people’s participation in a forum online, such as limiting access to certain parts of the site or requiring moderation of comments before posting. But, I’ve found personal communication with people, if handled tactfully, can enable one to address the thorniest of issues (eg. overly sexualised content posted by a Vietnam war veteran with an anger problem - he responded pretty well).
May 21st, 2006 at 3:26 am
They know my beliefs don’t sit easily with their lifestyles.
A hot tip for young players.
Don’t use the word ‘lifestyle’ to a gay person.
It instantly identifies you with the godhatesfags and the Fred Nile crowd.
It’s a silly word and it doesn’t mean anything.
(What exactly is the straight lifestyle?)
May 21st, 2006 at 12:51 pm
heh heh…yeah, i hate that word too, for so many reasons - not least of which is that it implies that gay people have a choice, and that they have some kind of ‘lifestyle’ that is different to straight people, and that they all live in a similar manner…
May 21st, 2006 at 1:16 pm
So did anyone go to a “Non-Virtual” church this morning? If so, how was it?
May 21st, 2006 at 5:24 pm
well, yes, if non-virtual means the flesh and blood church round the corner. But some of the interactions seem very unreal (virtual?) and some of my virtual interactions have been very real … no wonder I’m feeling confused ..
May 21st, 2006 at 6:09 pm
I was thinking about that today. I think some in the church never get beyond psuedo community and avoid any situation (conflict usually) that will take the relationship to the next level. Honesty is downplayed in the name of “being Christian” which means never to say a hurtful thing to someone’s face when you can say it behind someone’s back multiple times.
May 21st, 2006 at 6:28 pm
Yes TABY wife and i headed off to the Baptists again this morning. A visiting speaker shared some graphic accounts of the plight of Christian believers in various parts of the world - mostly the persecution of believers in Muslim nations. Very sobering and challenging and pleasing to learn of those who are pro-active in trying to help the oppressed.
Wonder if you found yourself in a “non-cyber” church today; and if so, how it went.
May 21st, 2006 at 9:15 pm
“Pseudo community” .. yes .. it’s like fairy floss, it looks so inviting yet has no substance, and too much makes you want to throw up. Too many of us encounter more reality outside the church than in it (not that the one I attend is all bad by any means, but it lacks something that it seems only a minority have any hunger for. The rest dance around each other with elaborate steps that frankly I just don’t get, I guess no one taught me the moves) A further thought, when you look at the paradigm set up for relationships in the “ideal christian family” — where people are supposed to be locked into certain pious roles (with built in inequalities) rather than responding as their truest deepest selves, should we wonder that so much role-playing and manipulative artificiality spills over into the church (or is it the other way round?) just my over-sundayed thoughts ..
May 21st, 2006 at 9:45 pm
Fairy floss does not look inviting.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:08 pm
It did when I was a little girl, and was never allowed to have it. The taste was one of life’s lesser disappointments ..
May 21st, 2006 at 10:16 pm
So why bother at all, Blestpickle? Isnt your forehead bleeding from all that banging?
Fairy floss rots your teeth.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:19 pm
probably because my husband is still very much part of the system, for starters …
May 21st, 2006 at 10:51 pm
I have lost tolerance with head banging. I am lucky I do not have a long term relationship which complicates things.. your situation must be quite frustrating.
May 22nd, 2006 at 12:11 am
Lance, thanks for the tip. The expression I used was “their lifestyles” (plural). I certainly didn’t say “the gay lifestyle” - which is the phrase that is most problematic and assumes homogeneity. But, obviously the word is a red flag and I appreciate the warning.
I guess the point I was making was that my friends know I think differently to them about homosexuality. But, that doesn’t mean we can’t love each other.
May 22nd, 2006 at 12:13 am
Taby, I went to Northern Community this morning. I met Phil and Dan and a number of others. How did it go? So far so good.
I’m looking forward to the Tuesday night at the Beer Cafe.
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:24 am
Welcome, purplegraciegirl and it was nice to meet you in real life.
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:48 am
Ummm, your name makes me think you are a purple belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and train with Rob in the city, or maybe Peter De Been. Am I correct? I am a brown belt and train at Dominance mixed martial arts.
the rev
May 22nd, 2006 at 10:39 am
I went to a non-virtual church (yesterday) - and it was good. As something different - men and women were encouraged to sit separately, in the sense of how it was in a jewish temple.
I found that an interesting experience, and found myslef talking with women I hadn’t got to know before.
Interestingly, communion was right at the end, and we were invited to go and sit with our partners again.
I enjoy it when church is a little different, it made me think, and respond differently
Janet McKinney
May 22nd, 2006 at 10:45 am
Hey welcome back rev - how did things go at the Cave?
May 22nd, 2006 at 12:14 pm
I went to a non-virtual church yesterday and it was good. I haven’t been for ages, I needed a break. A few people know why I needed a break and they’ve been very good at listening and doing something about it.
It was small, as usual, but there were also new people there, as usual. It’s a very transient community in some ways…
Afterwards I had dinner - we run a free meal every week. I run what is known as ‘Prayer Time’ before hand, I started doing that about 2 years ago in response to numerous requests and complaints that we do something.
It was great…aside from having to tell off the guy I found urinating about 2 metres from the toilet…he just laughed in my face when I groaned and asked him why he wasn’t using the toilet…
May 22nd, 2006 at 1:38 pm
Well….I didn’t make it to the non-virtual church yesterday. The thought of stepping back inside a church right now just doesn’t sit well with me.
February 20, 2005 - - that was the last time I was in a church. It was also my last Sunday leading worship……later that week, I resigned my membership.
I don’t know, after everything, that I can ever go back into a church.
May 22nd, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Greg, check out the rev’s blog for an account of the cave.
May 22nd, 2006 at 4:00 pm
TABY - OUCH!!
Sadly, I know a lot of people with a very similar story…
May 22nd, 2006 at 11:12 pm
Four going on five years for me now.. I may never return.
May 23rd, 2006 at 2:10 am
Sometimes i have found it refreshing to just slip into the back of a largish church; arrive just after the service has commenced and quietly withdraw without speaking to anyone. Just being there to look unto the Lord and acknowledge that He is my Lord.
May 23rd, 2006 at 11:13 am
Actually, I tell a lie. I did Go to a Church recently. It was St Pauls cathedral in melbourne, in the middle of the week. There were a handful of people in there just sitting in the silence of the pews. I sat there for a while. I lit a candle.