Comments on: Chaplains in public schools http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/ musings from those on the journey Fri, 7 Nov 2008 05:06:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: alan http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150122 alan Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:17:20 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150122 I agree.However what is more disturbing is that the market and not govt is catching up with the church. Having enjoyed tax breaks etc for decades,churches are beginning to offload their aged care facilities to the global financial institutions eg Macquarie bank ha moved in NZ and helped the Salvos unload their homes in Aust.I understand.News paper reports indicate that they and others are targetting church based aged care facilities for takeover.It will not be possible for churches to continue to operate as instruments of govt, these multi million operations.For the market these are choice investments. Child care is another choice investmen now earning multinational companies such as ABC loads of cash.All Vic chrches of christ congregations have just received advice on the implcations of doing deals with such companies. Having begged,lobbied,requested,petitioned all kind s of financial breaks and protection from the govt,churches will now sell such operations-aged care,preschool etc (my own denomination has already unloaded all its camp sites for a tidy sum)and make millions.I wonder how much will be returned to the taxpayer. The depressing aspect of all these developments that few in congregations have any idea what the hell is happening or likely to happen. I agree.However what is more disturbing is that the market and not govt is catching up with the church.
Having enjoyed tax breaks etc for decades,churches are beginning to offload their aged care facilities to the global financial institutions eg Macquarie bank ha moved in NZ and helped the Salvos unload their homes in Aust.I understand.News paper reports indicate that they and others are targetting church based aged care facilities for takeover.It will not be possible for churches to continue to operate as instruments of govt, these multi million operations.For the market these are choice investments.
Child care is another choice investmen now earning multinational companies such as ABC loads of cash.All Vic chrches of christ congregations have just received advice on the implcations of doing deals with such companies.
Having begged,lobbied,requested,petitioned all kind s of financial breaks and protection from the govt,churches will now sell such operations-aged care,preschool etc (my own denomination has already unloaded all its camp sites for a tidy sum)and make millions.I wonder how much will be returned to the taxpayer.
The depressing aspect of all these developments that few in congregations have any idea what the hell is happening or likely to happen.

]]> By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150090 Janet Sun, 05 Nov 2006 22:43:54 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150090 At the risk of sounding cynical... I think the horse has already bolted in many respects... church run aged care homes, for example, would have to close immediately if the government pulled the pin on funding. The government pays for most of the social workers in the Salvation Army. The government will fund any religious or private school according to a funding formula... to Islamic schools as well, although there are far, far fewer of them. The chaplaincy issue is just one more thing. I guess it reduces the chances of churches exercising a prophetic voice toward the rulers of the day when so much funding rolls in from the goverment. Maybe that's all part of the Liberal grand plan. At the risk of sounding cynical… I think the horse has already bolted in many respects… church run aged care homes, for example, would have to close immediately if the government pulled the pin on funding. The government pays for most of the social workers in the Salvation Army. The government will fund any religious or private school according to a funding formula… to Islamic schools as well, although there are far, far fewer of them. The chaplaincy issue is just one more thing.

I guess it reduces the chances of churches exercising a prophetic voice toward the rulers of the day when so much funding rolls in from the goverment. Maybe that’s all part of the Liberal grand plan.

]]> By: alan http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150068 alan Sun, 05 Nov 2006 03:17:20 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150068 Janet: dead right for the first question- great wedge issue; in terms of the second question:the churches are being seduced and they love it! http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5105 Janet: dead right for the first question- great wedge issue; in terms of the second question:the churches are being seduced and they love it!
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5105

]]> By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150045 Janet Sat, 04 Nov 2006 04:21:02 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150045 I defend the God-given right of anyone still in high school to use annoying phrases. I defend the God-given right of anyone still in high school to use annoying phrases.

]]> By: jamesh http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150024 jamesh Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:28:22 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150024 *an annoying phrase *an annoying phrase

]]> By: jamesh http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150023 jamesh Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:27:49 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150023 1) "Just to let you know" is a annoying phrase. Very patronising. 2) The website you've linked us to - Elevate's - says that it is run by "St. James Anglican Church Turramurra"... I hate to break it to you, adjustedrace, but St. James Anglican Church aint no AOG church. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on it being Anglican. 1) “Just to let you know” is a annoying phrase. Very patronising.

2) The website you’ve linked us to - Elevate’s - says that it is run by “St. James Anglican Church Turramurra”… I hate to break it to you, adjustedrace, but St. James Anglican Church aint no AOG church. If I were a betting man, I’d put my money on it being Anglican.

]]> By: adjustedrace http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150022 adjustedrace Fri, 03 Nov 2006 12:21:14 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150022 Just to let you know. The Assembly of God run a program in my school called elevate. http://www.elevate.org.au/ And I am in a public AUSTRALIAN SECONDARY SCHOOL. Instead of chaplains employ professional counsellors and psycologists. Just to let you know. The Assembly of God run a program in my school called elevate. http://www.elevate.org.au/
And I am in a public AUSTRALIAN SECONDARY SCHOOL. Instead of chaplains employ professional counsellors and psycologists.

]]> By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150013 Janet Fri, 03 Nov 2006 09:16:24 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-150013 Well, we're in the long run up to an election, are we not? So the answer to your question is the same as to these questions: Why are enormous amounts of money directed to "middle class welfare" (eg family tax benefits, baby bonuses, etc.) when those living on welfare payments face tighter and tighter scrutiny? Why is commercial childcare subsidised... even for the affluent? Why are billions of dollars spent in private health care rebates? Why do we tolerate a medicare "safety net" that ultimately provides medical "overservicing" to the affluent? Answer... there's votes in it. It's like trying to hold back the tide. I think any opposition with a policy to revoke all this inequitable nonsense would be unelectable. I have no doubt there's been plenty of liberal party polling done, and they know shoring up the "Christian vote" will get them over the line in marginal seats. Why are churches accepting the money? Mmmm... to be perfectly honest, I'm not sending my family tax benefit back much as I object to the redirection of "welfare" from the poor and vulnerable to the comfortable middle class. And if the opportunity came up to have a chaplain in my local schools, I wouldn't be knocking it back... Spineless I know. You have to hand it to them... I can feel yet ANOTHER Howard Government term approaching. Sigh. Well, we’re in the long run up to an election, are we not?

So the answer to your question is the same as to these questions:

Why are enormous amounts of money directed to “middle class welfare” (eg family tax benefits, baby bonuses, etc.) when those living on welfare payments face tighter and tighter scrutiny?

Why is commercial childcare subsidised… even for the affluent?

Why are billions of dollars spent in private health care rebates?

Why do we tolerate a medicare “safety net” that ultimately provides medical “overservicing” to the affluent?

Answer… there’s votes in it. It’s like trying to hold back the tide. I think any opposition with a policy to revoke all this inequitable nonsense would be unelectable. I have no doubt there’s been plenty of liberal party polling done, and they know shoring up the “Christian vote” will get them over the line in marginal seats.

Why are churches accepting the money?

Mmmm… to be perfectly honest, I’m not sending my family tax benefit back much as I object to the redirection of “welfare” from the poor and vulnerable to the comfortable middle class. And if the opportunity came up to have a chaplain in my local schools, I wouldn’t be knocking it back…

Spineless I know.

You have to hand it to them… I can feel yet ANOTHER Howard Government term approaching. Sigh.

]]> By: alan http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-149989 alan Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:33:28 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-149989 The questions remain:why is the Govt tossing $90 million into schools, and why will the churches grab the cash and run. For me the chaplaincy deal is nothing new.It shows how smart the Govt is,and how desparate are the churches. http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5105 The questions remain:why is the Govt tossing $90 million into schools, and why will the churches grab the cash and run. For me the chaplaincy deal is nothing new.It shows how smart the Govt is,and how desparate are the churches.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5105

]]> By: Toddy http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-149888 Toddy Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:12:35 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/06/25/chaplains-in-public-schools/#comment-149888 Wayne, to an extent I believe in you. Christians DO believe that Jesus is the hope of the world (the WHOLE world, not just the white, english speaking bits!) So, we always look for opportunities to offer hope. I mean, you would logically call us selfish and indeed foolish if we didn't share hope with those who have none. Admittedly, the argument will come from those who do not believe that Jesus has anything to offer. However, we do, so we speak. But there is more to 'Jesus Freakazoidism' than simply telling the message; there is also a strong focus in simply doing good things to each other, simply because of the biblical belief that all people are prescious, regardless of their background or circumstances. Now, while large tracts of Christianity are littered with failure in terms of demonstrating a capacity to love unconditionally, it still remains a core part of the Christian 'value system', and therefore, remains something that can be offered to the broader community as a free-gift. No tithes required! :-) Also, lets get real about 1 matter in particular... ordained clergy don't normally get involved in school chaplaincy. Rock-Spider or not! Wayne, to an extent I believe in you. Christians DO believe that Jesus is the hope of the world (the WHOLE world, not just the white, english speaking bits!) So, we always look for opportunities to offer hope. I mean, you would logically call us selfish and indeed foolish if we didn’t share hope with those who have none. Admittedly, the argument will come from those who do not believe that Jesus has anything to offer.
However, we do, so we speak.

But there is more to ‘Jesus Freakazoidism’ than simply telling the message; there is also a strong focus in simply doing good things to each other, simply because of the biblical belief that all people are prescious, regardless of their background or circumstances.

Now, while large tracts of Christianity are littered with failure in terms of demonstrating a capacity to love unconditionally, it still remains a core part of the Christian ‘value system’, and therefore, remains something that can be offered to the broader community as a free-gift. No tithes required! :-)

Also, lets get real about 1 matter in particular… ordained clergy don’t normally get involved in school chaplaincy. Rock-Spider or not!

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