Hillsong conference 2006
Sorry to be slow on the uptake on this, but Hillsong 2006 is up and running. Anyone who wants to post reviews, discussion or articles about the 2006 conference, do it in this thread (just so we can try to keep things together a bit).
Ta muchly.
July 3rd, 2007 at 7:58 pm
well reve i think i have contradicted you comprehensively on the God and Homosexuality string and you have always seemed to hide behind AVB and Lance, you haven’t come up with any decent rejoinder of your own (not saying that AVB or lance have either).
do you feel like a real opportunity to grow?
July 4th, 2007 at 9:49 am
if you make people think they are thinking they will love you
if you make people think they will hate you
there are few real opportunities to grow that don’t involve real pain reve
July 4th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Abtruth,
If you could show me (excuse my laziness) precisely where you have factually contradicted me & my response stank of borrowing from Lance or AVB (& of lack of independent thought) i will more than gladly engage the growth pains.
Like most passionate people, i swing back & forth between a superiority complex & an inferiority complex (rarely in between), sometimes pompous, other times so humble i feel like everyone else has something i haven’t.
But outside this i do acknowledge that there are truths that hang above all of our agenda’s - & if you get to one before me, i promise i will acknowledge it.
But you’ll need to be specific.
July 4th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
You may also be interested to know…that all gay men are not mobilised into gangs & voting blocks where all their opinions are aligned ;o).
Lance only warmed to AVB very recently & still has concerns about AVB’s approach & motivations whilst giving credit for good work done.
AVB is a passive ambassador for the rights of christian gays & very patient, he doesn’t always appreciate my bull-in-a-china shop aggressive/antagonistic approach & has gently tried to reign me in on more than one occasion (not publicly, as this would not be godly).
Lance & AVB are also both alot more optimistic about the potentialities of the pentecostal church of the future than i am. Although i’m a younger than them, i’m more of a cynic.
Lance appreciates “twinks” whereas their brainlessness gives me the shits (you can ask Lance what a twink is).
Lance is a social commentator. AVB is an ambassador. I am a sometime activist. Three different approaches. Three different people.
July 4th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
2 interesting people who have found Christ from a gay lifestyle.
I am always fascinated when people have some sort of divine touch
From what I read both very prominent in the gay, lesbian movement
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/180565.aspx
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/180565.aspx &
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56487
July 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56481
this should be with the one above
July 4th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
First of all it should be noted that you’re relying on Pat ‘Kill Hugo Chavez’ Robertson’s network for your information…but we’ll put that to one side for a moment.
There is a certain relief and initial giddy feeling of freedom when stepping away from all things gay and living on the promises of scripture.
I note that most ‘ex-gay’ leaders have at one time been prominant proponents of ‘gay ideology’.
The reality is however, that part of the territory of the sudden shift from gay activist to ‘ex-gay’ leader is that you have to distance yourself from ALL things homosexual, whether that distancing is a reality in your life or not.
That is, you have to at least partly live a lie, or as it’s known in the recovery trade…’fake it until you make it’.
What usually happens though..is 10-20 years later, reality hits home..and hits home hard…and the ‘ex-gay’ leader is left with a faith crisis….because they’ve been living off faith and hope…and what was hoped for has not come to pass.
I’ve seen it a gazillion times..and I’ve lived it myself.
By helping to build up their pride in their new-found ‘godliness’ you are unwittingly setting them up for the inevitable fall (good to see we’ve forgotten the lessons of Ted Haggard already).
Rejoice with those ‘ex-gay’ leaders as they rejoice now, but remember to mourn with them when they mourn 20 years from now as their mid-life crisis hits and they can no longer keep up the pretense.
BTW, I would suggest that someone who’s discovered they were gay at 14..probably has a more fluid sexuality than someone who has been gay ‘as long as they remember’ (age 5 or before)
One size of thinking about this doesn’t fit all.
July 4th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
hi reve
“Emma, apolz for any offense. You know what i’m talking about, then.
The issue is not just about you & i & our backgrounds though. Your sense of responsibility to protect others who are vulnerable has to be more intense than your ideal that one person has a right to his voice.
Sorry but, we have to get real here.”
no worries, no offence taken, just wanted to show I get it.
I have always liked this Jefferson quote:
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
There is so much I dislike about the “inconveniences” of liberty…Pauline Hanson for starters. Hard core porn. A friend alerted me the other week to a horrible porn site involving the killing and eating of women. And the list goes on. But I would rather have to put up with these excesses that err on the other side, and have Big Brother breathing down my neck everytime I wanted to say something. Vulnerable people should be protected…but at the expense of our freedoms? And where do you draw that line?
July 4th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Killing and eating of women? I seriously thought I had seen it all in year eleven with goatse and tubgirl.. guess I was wrong.
You make a good point though Emma, what is the line between freedom and protection? That’s a damn big question right there. I think the problem here is that freedom is something awarded to an individual, and it is up to that individual to make the right choices. But, in an age of anonymousness it’s pretty easy to go past your own boundaries to explore the freedom you have.
July 5th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Yes Jake, everytime I think I’m unshockable…but sorry tubgirl? Not sure what that is…not sure I want to know
Yes it all gets messy…for starters, who are the vulnerable groups of people? How do we define them? Who is going to say what’s OK to say and what’s not OK? For example, “nigger” is a horrible word but one that has been reclaimed by black people. So if someone who is not black uses it, would they be in trouble? What would the penalty be??
I think it’s worth remembering that the freedoms we enjoy guaurantee the right of someone to say “I’m gay” and pursuing whatever lifestyle they choose. If we allow that freedom then we have to allow freedoms for others too, even ones we don’t like or agree with.
July 5th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Well… lets see, what’s the Bible say again? Something about if your faith affords you the freedom to do something, do it, but if it’ll make someone else stumble, don’t do it in front of them? For example, I have no problem swearing, but I know a lot of people who do. So I don’t swear in front of them. I COULD swear in front of them, I have the FREEDOM to do so, but I would offend them, or they may think that since I do it, then it’s ok for them to, even though it goes against their conscience.
And that’s where the freedom line is… that “conscience” thing we were given. And the more we go against it the less it nags when we do something we know we shouldn’t be.
And then there’s the really annoying Catch-22… How do you know what the difference is between your conscience and common sense? For example, when I left church I felt I was doing something wrong… And yet I felt God pulling me out.. The conscience of everyone at a mega-church can, and most times will be manipulated in order to make the individual adhere to the collective. That’s the major problem.
BTW, I say nigger at least 50 times a day because I love speaking in ebonics. Would I say it in Harlem? Hell no nigger.
And tubgirl… try google images with safe search off. You’re in for a surprise.
July 5th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
For example, I have no problem swearing, but I know a lot of people who do. So I don’t swear in front of them.
Obviously this is not a quote from Rev
July 5th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
LOL.. Kev, you funny muthaf$%^er!!
July 5th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
emanrescu, you have no idea how tempted I was to respond to your post #371 with a string of expletives…
July 6th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Thank you usernamebackwards, that’s my job. I have the spiritual gift of discerning the obvious. Obviously.
July 6th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Quite obviously. I wish I had the spiritual gift of being able to make up my mind…. or do I?
July 6th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I’m not sure that Jesus forgave everyone of everything.
I seem to recall some Pharisees being repeatedly told ‘woe to you’…and ‘you have received your reward in full’.
July 6th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Um.. wrong thread Lance… but gold sticker for giving it your best!
July 6th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Lance,
‘I’m not sure that Jesus forgave everyone of everything.’
And when he was on the cross saying, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do’, to whom was he referring? I always thought he paid for the sins of the whole world!
Which the point of the parable of the forgiving king in Matthew 18:21-35. the king os a type of Christ forgiving the whole world. The servant is anyone who, having received his forgiveness and pardon, refuses to pardon or forgive others. Powerful!
So it’s not a matter of whether Christ forgave the Scribes or Pharisees, but whether they would accept his pardon and forgiveness, and live accordingly, which many of them refused to do, hence his prophetic ‘woe’.
July 6th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
good point FL
refused forgiveness because they didn’t see their own sin
July 6th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
“I always thought he paid for the sins of the whole world!”
But it’s a clear teaching in the bible that if you don’t forgive others their sin, then God won’t forgive you.
Therefore by coming in here and saying that others unforgiveness is unacceptable , you’re suggesting that the people on Signposts who struggle to forgive fuckwit pentes and pond-scum pastors are hell-bound.
That’s why when you barge into a conversation and make pronouncements on people who struggle with these issues…that you’re treated with the contempt that you deserve.
Make up your mind though.
Did Jesus pay on the cross for the sins of those who struggle to forgive?
If so, then say so..and stay.
If not, then fuck off and go rub salt into someone else’s wounds.
July 6th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
* A comment similar to this may appear nearby because it got eaten by the spam-eater..but I really want to make this point.
Inflexible rules and guidelines…which are the backbone or churches…or ‘principles’ as laid out by arseholes like Brian Houston….are just a mask to cover up their incompetance in dealing with unique life situations and people.
When someone like Houston lays down a ‘principle’….it usually only takes about three seconds to come up with an example of situation that clearly and obviously refutes the so-called principle.
I actually think that Jesus had more of a brain than the average Christian and the average pastor…and could actually size up a person or a situation before speaking into their situation.
I’ve wondered a lot lately why Hill$ong is so allergic to speaking and teaching on Jesus and the parables (preferring instead to stay in the Old Testament) …and I think it’s because Jesus put people before principles.
It’s the complete opposite of Hill$ong’s mindset..where the principle over-rides everything….even though the principle is something that Brian pulled out of his arse or read in a book written by some American with a diploma mill degree.
But I give Jesus the credit to be able to think and read a person…a quality and a skill that the average penty pastor completely fails to comprehend in their pursuit of their self-styled religion.
July 6th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
maybe.. but i think the whole grace thing being for free is more of a problem.. at HS ya gotta pay to be right with God
July 6th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Hey, Lance, are you in charge around here then? Tell me if you are, and I’ll go if you want. As far as I can make out you’re the only one, so far, who is treating me with any kind of contempt. I can handle that, but, if you’re setting the rules and agenda for commenting, you sure are making a ham-fisted mess of your own case, since it reflects what you accuse Hillsong of…exactly!!!
By the way, do you include all ‘pentes’ in that expletive, or are you focused on one group in particular?
God made the rules on forgiveness. You can work it out, I’m sure. I don’t think he gives any other guidelines except that we need to forgive others regardless of what they’ve done, or not done. I don’t think he excludes those who find it hard to forgive, no, I can’t find a case where it’s OK in any way not to forgive. Peter broached the question and asked if he was getting it right by forgiving seven times seven, to which Jesus replied he needs to keep going beyond seventy times seventy, which probably answers your question.
Yes, of course, Jesus forgives us for all our sins, but that doesn’t mean we have license to sin or continue in a sin once we accepted his forgiveness. Sorry, I can’t see the scripture bend to your emotive cry for some kind of get-out clause so you can remain in prolonged unforgiveness. Perhaps God’s mercy accounts for initial shock, horror and self-pity, but beyond that, after a few hours, weeks or months, it needs to be dealt with, and the sooner the better, because there is no get-out-of-jail card for unforgiveness. It’s just not there!
I don’t find being forgiving all that easy every time, but, hey, knowing the consequences sure puts it into perspective! That’s right. The truth hurts more than the offence, sometimes.
So, are you in charge, or what? Do you make the rules on commenting?
July 6th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
Lance is not in chagre - He is a bigoted minded, quasi religious, verbally abusive, defacto controlling bully. Other than that he is a pretty good guy, - Oh, and he works closly with the accuser of the brethren, as you are probably aware by now. Most of his posts are well worded, becasue he is a good writer. But he is pretty one dimensional so if you read him a couple of years ago- then you’ve read him lately.
yawn
July 7th, 2007 at 12:03 am
Oh, that’s alright then! Thanks!
July 7th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Akevin… that is the best description of Lance I have ever heard.
A note to the signposts owners… how long are you going to allow Lance to use the most foul expletives in a supposed Christian forum? He’s used them all and it makes you look like you’re agreeing with the use of that kind of language by doing nothing to kerb it.
July 7th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
“Hillsong Conference just ended last night. It was a very tiring and busy 5 days, but I have been immensely blessed and touched by the Lord. My life has been transformed. The word spoke to me with such clarity and conviction and worship was amazing, ushering in the glory of God.
Volunteering was good fun, I got to meet heaps of new people while serving others. I originally did it to save on the registration fee, but I later realized that God had a greater plan and purpose for me being a volunteer.
At the final night rally, I felt prompted to give “X” amount for the offering, so I did just that. Later that night, when i registered for the 2008 conference, I realized that I had $180 left in my wallet, which is exactly how much the registration cost.
Coincidence?
Posted by Andrew at 4:26 AM”
From http://adventuresofshaneandrew.blogspot.com/2007/07/070707.html
July 7th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
T- neck - thanks, but as I said earlier, it’s just using my obvious gift of discerning the obvious…. obviously.
As THEY say… When you got it, then flaunt it.
July 7th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
The accuser of the Bretheren …??????
Was Paul woking with the accuser of the bretheren when he siad that those teachers that brought people under law should be called anethema ??? (Gal Ch1) Was Christ working with the Bretheren when he overturned the money tables????
Lance is constrasting Christianity with false teaching and profiteering?