Hillsong conference 2006
Sorry to be slow on the uptake on this, but Hillsong 2006 is up and running. Anyone who wants to post reviews, discussion or articles about the 2006 conference, do it in this thread (just so we can try to keep things together a bit).
Ta muchly.
July 7th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
actually, I believe Christ was working alone when he did the money table job. No bretheren present.
July 7th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
“Lance is not in chagre - He is a bigoted minded, quasi religious, verbally abusive, defacto controlling bully.”
Of course I bully pentecostals. Bullying is the language of the pentecostal - the only language they understand.
It’s the language of prowling around on a stage…dripping in sweat…showering the front row with spit as tithes and offerings are demanded and threatening those who don’t comply with falling from God’s favour.
It’s the language of yelling and foot-stomping - the language of demands for complete submission and of the shooting of the wounded.
You reckon saying rude words on a blog is ‘bullying’. I just sometimes wish I was in Sydney where I could get one-on-one in their face and ’speak their language’…because it seems to be the only way to get these arrogant self-serving pricks’ attention.
July 7th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
And Lance,
Sydney is full of gay guys….
July 7th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
…with faces like Ian Roberts.
July 7th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Well Lance, why don’t go to Sydney and do it? Stop talking about it and actually do it instead of huffing and puffing?
So to Lance, all “pentes” are the same and that’s ok with him. So is it ok for me to think all gays are sexually immoral and go and have anonymous sex at a park near where I work? You know, because that’s been my experience with gay people so they all must be like that.
July 7th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
As a Pentecostal, I say, you don’t really know what you’re talking about, Lance.
Tithing is certainly optional in our Pentecostal church, and it is taught that we are not under Mosaic Law, and therefore not under obligation to give, but that giving is clearly recommended by Christ, and the right kind of giving is promoted by Paul - not grudgingly, nor of necessity, but purposefully and with a cheerful attitude.
Tithing is taught as a faith principle, rather than a ‘hell-condemning’ demand as you completely and foolishly imply. The Law is a shadow, and therefore the tithing of the law is a shadow, but the shadow is cast by the light shining on the real, so what is the real? Whatever you discover there, it must be of faith, and of the Spirit, not of the Law. The Spirit gives life, but the letter kills.
Yet you spew forth invective which becomes your self-appeasing law for others, and you pour out your own legal requirement for Pentecostal believers, despite your vitriol towards us and denial of our right to be considered of faith, under God’s care, or real Christians!
In denying the Law you create a new law. The law of the bully-boy, the bitter-hearted and the self-righteous man; more legalistic than the Law you claim to be removed. Yet Christ came, not to destroy, but to fulfil the Law, and demonstrate a better way - the way of faith, where ALL THINGS are lawful, yet, as Paul says, not all are expedient.
So is it lawful for a Christian to tithe if he or she so chooses? To you no, because you create a new law, but to me yes, because I’m not under law and have a choice, and choose the tenth plus offerings by faith because I see a precedent in faithful Abraham and identify a standard by which to give which suits my desire to give purposely. So am I now under your law? Or am I free to give any way I choose?
Am I threatened by my leadership? No, because I serve Christ, and see them as gifts from him, answerable, as I am, to his leadership. Do they condemn me if I don’t give? They don’t even know what I give, and have never asked me. I’d be more condemned by you, if it were possible for you to actually have any power over me. But you don’t except in one thing - that I am obliged to love you - but that’s all I owe anyone!
July 7th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
So why hound people for five minutes per service about tithing..which is standard pentecostal practice?
July 7th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
L fish
” Lance is constrasting Christianity with false teaching and profiteering?”
Not when he pigeon holes all Pentecostals into ONE group - You give him him way too much credit and way too much license. he is bagging a GROUP. If you do it to gays it’s called homophobic - if you do it to Pentecostals it’s okay I guess. and to take his accusations one step further, since pentecostals are Christians, then ALL Christians are prefiteering and false teachers. Shame on you and Rev, bec, usernamebackwards, and ALL the others - You tithe teacher
July 7th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
So if ugly gay guys is a reason not to go to Sydney, and ALL gays are alike, then the gay guys in Perth look like Ian Robertrs, then it’s safe to say Lance looks like Ian Roberts - which means it’s okay to go to Sydney, You will fit in just fine.
That’s a NEW stereotype for me - Gay guys look like Ian Roberts. But do they act like Liberace or Elton John?
July 7th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
I have never found Lance to be a bully. Yes, he expresses strong opinions at times and uses strong language to make a point. From my observations on this blog Lance treats those who treat him with respect with mutual respect. Those who are respectful in their arguments with Lance are also treated with respect.
Respectfully……
July 8th, 2007 at 3:28 am
“My wife Lyn, and my sister once went to a fairly expensive Hillsong Womens Conference in London. When I dropped them off one time I took a wrong turn at the conference centre and ended up in the VIP drop-off area, just in time to see the main speaker arriving in a stretch limo! What with the first class air travel spoken about at the conference I guess it all adds up. Part of the cost was meant to be because the women were going to be pampered at the conference. The pampering was not really in evidence and their pamper bag consisted of a chocolate and a load of leaflets inviting them to spend money on christian stuff!”
From http://nakedpastor.com/archives/1066
July 8th, 2007 at 6:38 am
396
Facelift, you’re taking Lance way too seriously, almost as seriously as you take yourself, if you don’t like it why don’t you just piss off? You don’t have to read it, if you’re happy well good on you, I think you get a kick out of patronising with your answers for everything, you remind me of wilson on tooltime, got an answer for everything but cold like a fish.
July 8th, 2007 at 9:08 am
re 398
Kev, I’ll have you know that I’m not an evil money-profiteering Christian! I’m just an evil Christian. =)
When it’s bill time though, I certainly wish I could be an evil money-profiteering Christian… that would certainly help.
July 8th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
well, instead of paying the bills, you could always cheat the bill collector. Tell them you died and then they can’t collect.
July 8th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Daisy -what is your drug of choice, or are you dilusional?
July 8th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
akevin- Personally, I have never found Lance to be disrespectful to me, nor anything close to it, to say otherwise would be “delusional”.
July 8th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Ifiknewthen,
So Lance is just joking then, not to be taken seriously, and not being a bully when the very first comment he makes to me tells me twice, and once with the worse of expletives, to go away? And the very first thing you say is the same, only in slightly less colourful language. Thanks!
Then he uses the same expletive to describe all ‘pentes’, in reference to another comment I made, and confirms he was including all ‘pentes’, including myself, and I guess, the 120 disciples in the Upper Room on the day of Pentecost, as well as Paul, and numerous other disciples who enjoyed the results of the Pentecostal outpouring, which is apparently a sign of the last days, and still being poured out!
And what was I talking about when he demanded I leave? Walking in forgiveness as a good therapy for offence! Why get so het up about that? I’m alright with this, but don’t say that he is not using bully-boy tactics.
I may be a cold fish to you, but I’m getting warmer under the colour by the second!
July 8th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Or was it collar!
July 8th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
irrespective of lances attitude you must address his concerns .. ignore his tactics.
and there are plenty of others that share his concerns like myself from within the AOG movement
the ship was steered off course years ago we are just trying to get it back on course
July 8th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
I dont remember being rude to you Facelift??
July 8th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
My apologies Facelift, did not see the comment was addressed to Ifiknewthen.
July 8th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I like you Facelift… And me being easily the 23rd highest poster on this sight means that that’s not a small statement!
July 8th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Thanks, emanresu! That reminds me of the 23rd Psalm! Good number.
Abtruth, I’m trying my best to address his concerns, although I don’t think I’m the answer, but thanks for the advice. I don’t think he wants me to ignore his tactics though!
July 8th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
facelift,
you miss my point, I didn’t say Lance was joking, I said YOU were taking him too seriously. Just because he may lose the plot and get slightly more vehement than you can handle, you don’t have to let him rock your settled and calm pentecostal doctrine.
Why do you feel you have a duty to defend your religion, why can’t you listen to someone criticising your religion without feeling you have to give pious lessons on forgiveness and defend your position. Where are you really at? Remember God is big, he doesn’t need your help against Lance. People here would be more interested in you if you shared reasons why you keep coming back, deep down maybe you have issues with the pentecostal thing yourself.
Get over the language thing facelift, it’s no big deal, I am insulted by your piousness just as much, but it doesn’t offend me because I am over it. People on this site are big enough to take a bit of crudeness without it being a problem, like I said before, everyone has their own way of dealing with the fallout of church hurt, this is something you don’t seem to even acknowlege happens, because you are too ready to come up with a DIY fixit from the bible without underststanding the emotions and pain.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Put it down to first impressions, ifiknewthen! Keep coming back? I’ve been here for three or four days, I think. saint sent me here a few weeks ago for a look, and I was surprised at the anger against Hillsong & CCC, and indeed Pentecostalism, but left before getting seriously involved. I came back the other day and made a few, I thought, helpful suggestions about forgiveness, having got over some issues myself.
I don’t think I’m that pious. Sure, I don’t use foul language, but I don’t have a problem with those who are in sin using it around me, since that is still a part of the language of their culture, and they are in sin so they can’t help it anyway, but I expect a higher standard from the saints, not based on my standards, but based on Biblical standards. Yeah, I know. the disciples included foul mouthed fishermen like Peter and John, but I see they didn’t use expletives in their writings once they were converted! Must be a lesson there somewhere.
But, tell me, why would anyone use the worse expletive to greet me and expect no reaction? I think it’s a cry for attention, don’t you?
I have no issues with the Pentecostal thing.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.
Lance has a sewer for a mouth. Quite simple really.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:58 am
pious
‘Be careful you don’t miss what I’m saying here because you feel I’m attempting to give some easy way out, or condemn people who find it hard to forgive and move on. It isn’t always easy, but it is a cure.’
pious
‘ but I don’t have a problem with those who are in sin using it around me, since that is still a part of the language of their culture, and they are in sin so they can’t help it anyway, but I expect a higher standard from the saints, not based on my standards, but based on Biblical standards.’
Be careful…I expect…they can’t help it…..my standards..don’t miss what I am saying…they can’t help it.
Facelift come down from your horse, your old style pentecostal nag, stop beating people up with scriptures, stop using hoary old frank houston chestnuts like ‘ the only thing wrong with church is people’, ‘my church was fine ’till I joined it’. People aren’t a problem sent to make old pentecostal preacher’s lives diffucult.
People here have been hurt, how do you know that Peter didn’t swear and it was edited over the last 2000 years, you don’t know, he might have said that Jesus was a shit hot bloke for all you know ( in gallilean ).
Old style pentecostal preachers don’t understand how to deal with people who have been hurt by the church, your ways of dealing with your problems are unique to you, if someone is so angry they are going to have a shot at you surely you can handle it, I mean, God was so angry he opened up the ground under heaps of people, I don’t see people on here complaining about that like you and turtleneck do, (tneck387) it’s a public forum for goodness sake, you can’t just waltz in and start preaching your pentecostal solutions and admonishments, who do you think you are?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:10 am
‘But, tell me, why would anyone use the worse expletive to greet me and expect no reaction? I think it’s a cry for attention, don’t you?’
Who said he didn’t expect a reaction? A cry for attention ?, now you’re patronising again, what if it is? is that wrong?, why don’t you find out what’s troubling the boy instead of getting all reactionary and blustery.
Is a cry for attention something a pentecostal preacher would walk away from?
That’s the trouble I’ve found with lots of preachers who are so immersed in the word they have no sense of true compassion, and anything outside of their world view is to be met with the likes of that comment..’I think it’s a cry for attention, don’t you?, The smugness of the ‘don’t you’ is pure pride.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:57 am
My guess is that Facelift is not a pentecostal, I have spent a lot of time in that world and his responses do not ring true of a pentecostal. He has said he was sent to signposts via saint, so my guess Facelift is anglician.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:32 am
you reckon ? whatever….