Hillsong conference 2006
Sorry to be slow on the uptake on this, but Hillsong 2006 is up and running. Anyone who wants to post reviews, discussion or articles about the 2006 conference, do it in this thread (just so we can try to keep things together a bit).
Ta muchly.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Oi, FaceLift pops up on my site every time I have a go at pente shysters. It’s like pressing a button. Can’t remember if I sent him here but I have sourced some blog posts from comments here.
And why would that make him Anglican? I haven’t been baptised or confirmed as an Anglican. And my money is on FaceLift being a pentecostal.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Just a bit of virtual license saint nothing more lol.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:14 am
Nobody gets baptised or confirmed as an Anglican - they get baptised and confirmed as Christian! Saint is obviously an exclusive brethren - or perhaps he is really an orthodox messianic muslim jew
July 9th, 2007 at 11:12 am
I’m a Pentecostal. I think I revealed that earlier! (oops, exclamation mark! Aaargh!!!!! The mark of the…least).
July 9th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
ifiknewthen, you would find Jesus and Paul, oh, and James, and John, and Peter, etc., excruciatingly ‘pious’ if you think using scripture or Biblical principles as a salve is bad practice, including getting straight to the point, as Jesus always did, including on the subject of forgiveness, rather than… what exactly… ? What is your alternative…some psychological application, based on…?
I didn’t introduce scripture on forgiveness to defend a position. I gave it, long before Lance commented on it, as a cure for offence. Do you disagree with this. Is forgiveness a bad thing? Is it not a cure? Lance took exception, as you are, to the suggestion that forgiveness is a way out of offence, hurt and discouragement Is there a problem with giving advice here, or are you content to wallow in an environment where no one attempts to bring a solution, and one at that which is straight out of the Word? Yep, I love the Word!
Is it pious to want to apply Biblical principles to problems? OK, guilty!
Am I ignoring Lances ‘cry’ (that was a tongue in cheek remark, by the way) by suggesting an expletive laden mouth is a problem? Not really. Having skipped through a few threads I can see he says heaps of interesting things, but he approached our new relationship with offensive behaviour. Does a potential ‘friend’ just let that happen, or does he say, ‘that’s not a nice way to talk to me’… ‘I don’t respond well to abusive language’…? Or do we put up with stuff that is potentially relationship breaking by… just ignoring foul behaviour?
…And… if I’m pious to have an opinion about how someone comments, what are you?
July 9th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
FaceLift, those who know me know some of my red flag words and phrases.
My eyes narrow when I hear people talk about journeys, resonating, dialogue, incarnational…etc etc (I think I am going to add ‘missional’ to the list soon).
I equally get suspicious when people talk of “biblical principles” or “faith principles” like you do. To me it indicates a sort of understanding of Scripture as this little rule book, this little manual of trench warfare…a very mechanistic outlook. Sow some seed. Reap rewards. Yada yada.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Except…the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds, which turn out to be arguments which exalt themselves above the knowledge of God. How then do we use these ‘weapons’ if not by knowing them and applying them?
And what soldier would go into battle without full understanding of his or her rank, weaponry, purpose and qualifications?
To you it becomes a ‘little rule book’, as if it were written by someone as insignificant as Chairman Mao. That’s your problem. I hope you can get over it. To me it is a great and living covenant made between man and God, with Christ as the mediator. What man or woman doesn’t, then, take the time to discover what the covenant says about their lives?
‘Little’? Have you tried lately do to understand or grasp everything this ‘little’ book says? I think, saint, it’ll take more than your lifetime and mine combined to even scratch the surface of what is in this ‘little’ book. You belittle your own faith with that argument.
‘Rulebook’. No, it’s the Living Word, the rhema which breaths life into dead spirits.
And thanks, I will sow some seed. I will reap a harvest. I’ll be joined to the Vine and produce fruit also. And season with salt. And all the other things the Covenant instructs me to do as I discover them. And you?
‘Take heed to yourself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you will both save yourself, and those that hear you.’ 1 Tim. 4:16
July 9th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
OK, reconsidering what you said, saint, it’s clear you think I’m suggesting people can just ‘mechanically’ forgive, forget and that it’s all over, but of course I’m not saying this at all. There is a process which is fundamentally different with every person’s story, and so the application of the cure is different also. It is harder for some people to achieve closure than others, but unless we target forgiveness as the point of closure we have nothing to aim at.
Witness Jesus ushering the woman at the well through a number of stages before she is completely transformed. See how he deals with the accusers of the woman caught in adultery through a series of steps, which focused on their religious zeal and brought them to a place of releasing her from a stoning without denying their right to accuse her. One of the main tools he used was his own capacity to forgive these women and position them for release.
See how he frees the boy on the stretcher lowered through a roof through a lesson in forgiveness. He clearly tells us that healing is connected to forgiveness, so why wouldn’t I say that forgiveness is a key to healing for those who are hurt by their association in one form or another with the church? And where do i say it isn’t a process, or that it is easy?
July 10th, 2007 at 5:34 am
I repeat..
pious
‘Be careful you don’t miss what I’m saying here because you feel I’m attempting to give some easy way out, or condemn people who find it hard to forgive and move on. It isn’t always easy, but it is a cure.’
pious
‘ but I don’t have a problem with those who are in sin using it around me, since that is still a part of the language of their culture, and they are in sin so they can’t help it anyway, but I expect a higher standard from the saints, not based on my standards, but based on Biblical standards.’
Be careful…I expect…they can’t help it…..my standards..don’t miss what I am saying…they can’t help it.
Dear facelift, be careful to try and understand what I am saying to you, I didn’t say you appeared pious to me because you believe in scripture, I think you are pious because of your high and mighty attitude towards others. Actually pious is the wrong word, It’s more to me like self-righteousness. I’ll bet you think you are a teacher. It’s you who is using the bible like a little book a la Saint’s comment.
The real point of this is that you have come on as a signposter and seen all these so called angry people attacking your beloved church and I believe you have erroneously assumed that everyone is like this because they have lots of unforgiveness in their lives towards the said churches.
So you have embarked on this unsolicited teaching on the power of forgiveness to help these poor souls. In fact I have a belief that most of the signposters I have read would probably know more about forgiveness than you could imagine, and probably through reading the word just like you. You are a typical pentecostal preacher who has all the 70’s & 80’s verses at hand for warfare and think that it’s what life is all about, but there is no love or care. Your words on my computer are like a digital clanging cymbal with no love attached, only hard arsed scriptures like a ‘cure’.
It’s like when you challenged L about who is the boss around here, you flexed your muscles and told him you weren’t intimidated and repeated your challenge, it was very threatening and not unlike L himself, only there was no humour, I’ll bet you prayed 2Cor 10:5,6 before going on line, you were pumped for battle like a real Penty from 1981. Then you come on and start your ‘teaching’ about forgiveness. Hard. This is the spirit that has sent me to signposts, this is the spirit that hurts me, this is the spirit of intimidation and belittlement.
July 10th, 2007 at 6:06 am
“OK,
I’m back from Hillsong Conference 2007 and I’m pumped! But I’m not your typical Pentecostal, “I’ll believe in everything that’s thrown at me cause it’s all about me,” kind of guy. At the conference, I saw the crowds go nuts whenever the speakers “proclaimed” blessings on them and a deathly silence hovered after the more “humble” messages.
I saw the likes of Garry Skinner sit in utter defiance of the words of TD Jakes as he bellowed out the typical, “God has a new opportunity waiting for you” type of teaching. For those of you that don’t know Skinner, and not many would cause he just keeps his head down and labours in the Kingdom, he is responsible for the Watoto Ministries - more of which I will elaborate later.
There was heaps of great things at the conference - and heaps of disgusting things. Overall I left a little shattered over the nature and health of the the “church” on earth. I am not a naysayer where I like to point my finger at everyone doing things differently to the way I like to do things - not at all.
I love diversity - and Hillsong 2007 was pregnant with diversity. Hillsong’s strength is in it’s worship. Speaker Louie Giglio challenged the crowd to raise another level by combining worship of the lips to sharing of your goods (Heb 13:15-16).
I have been bed riddled for almost 3 days with a flu since I got back from Hillsong and haven’t had much time to do anything. Add to this that my blog became, once again, corrupted in it’s programming, I had to relaunch layguy.com. But rest assured. I will post heaps about this conference.
Let me just say that John Bevere and Louie Giglio [shone] like stars at this conference. But people like Jentezen Franklin and TD Jakes, for the lack of a better word, sucked to a degree as they lacked any substance other than the “God has an opportunity waiting for you” message that seriously entered one ear and left scurrying through the other.”
From http://layguy.com/2007/07/09/pumped/
BTW…I (Lance) haven’t been able to find anything about Ron Luce at the Hill$ong Conference.
Can anyone help?
July 10th, 2007 at 8:03 am
Coming soon:
http://www.blackincbooks.com/blinc/forthcoming_titles/index.html
July 10th, 2007 at 9:48 am
I have been bed riddled for almost 3 days
Now that’s going to hurt, especially if you’re riddled with queen sized beds. What kinfd of ointment do you use to get rid of a case of viral beds?
July 10th, 2007 at 9:56 am
ifknewthen, You criticise and call me ‘pious’ for starting a sentence ‘be careful…’ and then you write, ‘be careful to try and understand what I am saying to you…’!
OK, saint, ifiknewthen, lance, everyone, I’m terribly sorry for coming onto your site and spouting off like an 80’s Penty guy??? (I’m not really, but if that’s what you see, I can’t help it!). Obviously they do things differently where you come from. We deal with tissues through prayer, the Word and Spirit, and, yes, actually, in love, and it tends to work well with most people I’ve had the privilege to interact with. It has also worked well in my life.
God bless you all. I truly hope you find the peace your wrestling to discover out of your sad time with Hillsong, CCC, whoever. My intention has been to interact with you in no other way but to be helpful.
I’m not interested I continuing conversations about why or how I try to interact, since it is destructive and counterproductive to have every word or nuance broken down critically. I am sorry for reacting to Lance.
I am also sorry, saint, you can’t get past your aversion to WoF to hear what I was trying to say. That’s probably my fault for standing with some of them on your site.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:59 am
I was there… and Ron Luce wasn’t at the main conference, he was over at the youth one… he only made an appearance to do an offering talk… which was kind of a non-event.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:59 am
I was there… and Ron Luce wasn’t at the main conference, he was over at the youth one… he only made an appearance to do an offering talk at main conference… which was kind of a non-event.
July 10th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
That’s interesting because Ron Luce was promoted as one of the main speakers along with Jakes and Bevere and co.
‘Thunder-bolt-and-lightning……..very-very-frightening…’ is very much Ron’s style..so that seems odd for him to be downgraded to a battle whimper from a battle cry.
I’m not sure the Hill$ong Conference delegates paid to hear him do an ‘offering talk’…(although going by his youth merchandising expertise..he would have been very good at it)
July 10th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Ron Luce wasn’t at the main conference, he was over at the youth one
Maybe thats what explains them having so much security onsite last week for the youth conference
July 10th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
“I am also sorry, saint, you can’t get past your aversion to WoF to hear what I was trying to say. That’s probably my fault for standing with some of them on your site.”
Yep, I happily accept that I have an aversion to WoF and all its offshoots. Have done for years and years and I have no plans to change that.
Nevertheless, not so long ago - maybe as recently as three years ago, I would occasionally even defend the likes of Hillsong - purely on the basis that while not my cup of tea, I was not as aware as I am now as to how much it has swallowed the sort of crap that is now systemic and entrenched in most pentecostal churches in Australia. I am now even wary of some Baptist and other “evangelical” churches which seem very vulnerable to the same however I have yet to see the evidence of a wide spread cancer in their ranks as I do amongst the pentes.
I don’t think I even got that vibe from the pente refugees over the years because, as others have pointed out repeatedly on this site
(a) no matter how shallow or one dimensional there are sufficient bits to suggest that maybe they preach the gospel (the ‘old Jesus is Lord’ mantra which is also used as their defense) and/or
(b) if you have never been exposed to any solid Christian teaching or understanding of Christian history (the best defense against heresy) and your structures are such that you don’t encourage much interaction outside of your holy huddle (because all your friends, social activities, “serving” and usually your life ambitions/affirmation are tied up with your church’s programs), it is very difficult to discern truth from error
which means most leave when
(a) after a long period of general disquiet about some aspect of teaching or polity - one final minor incident usually pushes them over the edge,or they just get burnt out and/or
(b) they never have an avenue or encouraged to have their questions/issues addressed as they arise over a period of time and/or
(c) if they try, they become a victim of some sort of bullying
Once they leave they are not immediately able to articulate what the underlying major problems are, sometimes focussing on what seem to be minor incidents to others - like the last straw. But that is because they can’t, at least not immediately - how could they- not because the issues aren’t really there.
This is not to say that non-pente churches don’t have issues - they certainly do - but I just don’t hear of the sort of ’spiritual abuse’ (and gee I hate that term too) and bullying not to mention the constant emphasis on money money money and some of the outrageous teaching that I hear from pente refugees.
But then you don’t get that sort of dynastic, self-made celeberity with self-sustained fawning public I will run off and start a church and I’m accountable to no-one because I’ve got the anointing so don’t touch me type of mentality anywhere else (happy to be corrected if I am wrong).
I can’t speak for elsewhere but in Oz, I am also not aware of any significant movements for reform within the older pente movements (eg AOG, Apostolic…what happened to them in Oz, do they still exist?) and there are squillions of reasons for that.
Perhaps it is easier for those of us outside “the system” to see the patterns. And perhaps some of us aren’t so compelled to defend the indefensible whether it be in our own or other churches, etc. etc.
I think you mean well FaceLift. I just think you don’t want to face up to some hard truths about the pente movement.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Frankly, saint, I am facing up to more than you know, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with what many are doing on this site, which is to completely denounce as ‘cults’, churches which are not, and completely denounce as ‘deceived’, people who are genuinely Christian, as witnessed by fabio’s struggle to get anywhere with the handful of hounds circling him at present, who will give nothing despite his obvious appeal to being a Christian making some tough decisions about his position.
Another thing, here, is the tendency to shoot the messenger and miss the message, which is why I’ve just about disengaged myself from your company. You don’t realise what an exclusive club you’re forming here. OK, so I’m from a Pentecostal background and have associations with some WoF teaching. Does this mean that anything I say is now to be ignored because you don’t trust either Pentecostals or WoF preachers?
So far on this blog, apart from having to boringly justify my existence as a Christian because it has been revealed I have associations with Pentecostalism, WoF-ism and apparently (now) pious scripturalism, I’ve only suggested that forgiveness is a cure for offence. Now, I’ve asked others if they think this is wrong thing to say, but they haven’t replied to that question, only taking up the banner of ’shoot the Pente’. FaceLift’s not totally against Hillsong or CCC, or even WoF, so he must be the enemy, can’t be saved, has to be of the devil! Stone him!
I’ll ask you! Do you believe that forgiveness is a cure for offence? Is it wrong to say that a good goal for release from abuse is the advent of forgiveness in the victim’s life, even regardless of the offender’s inaction to admit culpability, or unrepentant attitude?
In answer to your claims that suggest I, like others, you assert, in Pentecostalism, am too closed off to see the reality of what you’re talking about; I have a background of salvation, baptism and confirmation (as an adult) in the Anglican Church, was given an early foundation under John Stott’s teaching, but, subsequently, filled with the Spirit, and put on the back pews because I was able to (quietly and unobtrusively) speak in tongues. My wife and I were frustrated that the church we loved would not or could not tell us anything about the Holy Spirit, or His baptism, or His gifts, so, after a six month quest amongst our church peers and leaders, we bit the bullet and, like many others before and since, found a little church which did, went to both for a while, and ultimately joined the charismatic church because they were stronger foundationally, pastorally and scripturally than the church we reluctantly left. Eventually, we attended Bible School, went into missions, and returned to work with a local church. We mix constantly and regularly with church members and leaders from other denominations, pray with them, worship with them, and enjoy fellowship with them. In other words we are far from shut off from the Body, but actively involved. I am interested in the history of the Church, various doctrines and methodologies. I read blogs like yours and this one to see what is being said about the Church, and churches, but I am fiercely defensive of what I see as brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of their denominational background, especially when they are attacked by their own crowd. It troubles me to to see so many bad reports and backbiting amongst brethren. I understand that we must expose false teachers and prophets, and their teaching, but it has to be on the basis of accuracy, not innuendo or speculation.
For instance the authors of this site link to Northern Community where they are engaged in promoting ‘magic’. What do you make of that? Is there something in it that is ‘cultish’, or do we need to find out more about it before making a claim or an accusation? Does this site therefore lose credibility because it ultimately links to wizard.com and witchcraft role play? Are the people who attend the church now not Christians because they have a link to magic through their website? Same-same as what you’re saying about Hillsong &CCC - by association - remember?
Pentecostalism and even WoF-ism, are far from perfect, as I’ve stated many times. They are like teenagers coming to terms with responsibility, and falling short in a few areas, but are essentially ‘good kids’ who need guidance, not complete censure, or excommunication. You, if you had your way that is, would make outcasts of your own kids, overbearing parents!
In a mature Body of Christ situation the more ‘grown-up’ would come alongside the immature and help bring them to adulthood, but you don’t grow good kids by telling them they’re going to hell for being less mature than their dad or mum!
Except that dad and mum have missed a few things because they weren’t engaged in full adulthood themselves. They still don’t like speaking in tongues, lifting their hands to worship, loud music on electric instruments, unconventional dress, the gifts of the Spirit in operation today, church in warehouses, cafés and old cinemas with lights and media, and all the other things teenagers are getting into these days. Joy! They have joy in church! Bah, humbug!
So how about applying your immense intellect, patience and investigative skills to working alongside brethren to help them grow up instead of kicking them down?
July 11th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
FaceLift…
I generally like your post (I don’t want to get sidetracked in a discussion about “magic” here, but that pushed my buttons), but my answer to your last question would be: many have tried that. I have many friends, and there are many people on Signposts, who tried to “help people to grow up”. Unfortunately, however, some people don’t want to grow up…or worse, they don’t want their congregations to grow up. This might be something you’ve experienced yourself.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
You’re right, bec, in that some don’t want to grow up, but many do, and I’ve found that there has been a shift in the last five to ten years and church leaders are far more open to relationship than before. That’s why we don’t give up.
There was a time when you wouldn’t get an evangelical into a room with a Pentecostal or charismatic to pray together. It was said that speaking in tongues was ‘of the devil’, and the Pentecostals couldn’t work out this ’silent prayer’ stuff! But that has changed, and they are able to work with their ‘distinctives’ rather than let them remain or become schisms.
I have been accused of being bombastic in my approach, and copped that sweet. So how does an equally bombastic approach by evangelicals towards WoF or Pentecostalism help the people who are Pentecostal or WoF and appreciate the sound parts but have a problem with the excesses? How does it help to call them unsaved, cultish or deceived?
I believe the Church Universal needs the Pentecostal message, and, yes, even elements of WoF as much as we need elements of Uniting Churchism of Knox, Wesley, Lutherism, Whitfieldism, Billy Grahamism, isms of Finney, Spurgeon, Moody, Booth, Baptistism, Episcopalism, Congregationalistism, Brethrenism, etc, etc., and we need a better dialogue, not ‘I’m right and you’re wrong’!
Dialogue with conviction, not eviction!
July 11th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Dear FaceLift
There are many of us here who tried to do just that…only to be met with public hostility to concerns which were raised in private.
My eyes began to be opened to the truth about 15 years ago. I sought the Lord and His Word for guidance over several weeks before deciding to do something which I’d never done before. That was, to make an appointment for a private chat and perhaps seek to understand what was going on. This was done in a genuine, quiet spirit of love and respect for someone I’d worked with since the early 80’s. You’d think after all those years of working and laughing together, I’d at least be listened to and taken notice of. After all, I’m not known for being a trouble-maker. I told him I wasn’t against him and I wasn’t out to make some sort of public stir or anything. I was just really worried, that’s all.
Needless to say, this approach failed dismally. Not only was I ordered to silence, a department meeting was called where all my private concerns were trotted out…without mentioning me by name. This was followed by the usual, ‘if you don’t like it, leave’ mantra.
Believe me, FaceLift…they (the leadership) won’t listen. And then they put you on the outer and that’s the beginning of the end. Sure, I could’ve dropped my concerns and just played along…but I wouldn’t be doing the right thing by me or them. As someone once said, ‘To thine own self be true’.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I’m sorry that happened, Singer. All I can say is that, thankfully, not all leaders or leadership teams are that insecure.
One thing I have found, though, is that it’s not exclusive to one group or another. Insecure leadership set-ups exist in every stream. There was a time when leaders were encouraged to be islands, but a greater degree of transparency has been encouraged recently.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Thanks, FaceLift..and yes, I think ‘insecure’ is the operative word.
I agree, this sort of leadership exits in lots of places. Let’s hope the encouragement you speak of reaps some positive rewards for everyone.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Thanks, FaceLift..and yes, I think ‘insecure’ is the operative word.
I agree, this sort of leadership exists in lots of places. Let’s hope the encouragement you speak of reaps some positive rewards for everyone.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Oops….that’s what you get for trying to stop a post from posting…’exists’ is all I wanted to fix.
July 11th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
FaceLift - thanks for sharing a bit of your story. However it is one I have heard before. Down here, from what I have been able to piece together (this is well before my time), there was a significant charismatic movement in the late 70s early 80s which centred on the Catholic charismatics and overspill of the Jesus movement from the States. Most who got involved in these movements (they weren’t formal churches etc) were Salvos, Bapos, Anglicans etc - that is people who already had some attachment to the church plus some ring in from the hippie and freak fringes. Many were subsequently frustrated with their own churches like you were and left - into pentecostal churches. The remnant of the Catholic charo movement down here is a bit loopy from what I have heard but I have only heard that third or fourth hand. Some did more than just ask questions, some shit stirred, some were ostracised etc etc. And off they went. Any chance they may have a chip on their shoulder about their former churches? You bet ya. Know how many pentes I have heard tell me all other non-pente churches are dead, there are no true Christians in the ‘mainstream churches’ etc etc? Plenty.
A proportion of those who left have either drifted away from Christ completely or else returned to their former traditions or ‘mainstream’ churches having found nothing but lollipop water. I doubt that you could walk into any church today down here - Catholic, Anglican, UC, Baptist whatever and not find at least one Pente refugee.
That drift and a few major scandals (including at the church of the former AOG super) meant maybe 10-15 years ago the pente churches here were either closed, fracturing ad nauseam or bleeding. In fact in my own neighbourhood I can’t count the number of small independent pente churches that would start and die (thank God, it is bad enough having the JWs and Mormons and even Christadelphians door knock without the followers of the lastest and greatest apostle). Let’s not mention the brawls (yes fisti-cuff brawls).
But don’t let those who stayed or those who grew up in pente churches since that time, do the very thing that people like you did years before in your old churches (ask questions, complain about no answers etc). And of course don’t let anyone suggest to those people to leave like you and your wife did years ago for the sake of their physical health and spiritual formation.
Singer’s story is not unusual. I can tell you of far worse.
Tanya asked on another thread what would we want the public to know about Hillsong in less than 200 words. Well I would simply say two: stay away.
I’d probably say that about more than a few churches actually, but more pente churches than any others. Funny that.
July 11th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Saint, if you say “stay away” can you recommend another church?
I think it’s very hard to find good churches these days. Not everyone likes traditional mainstream churches and rightly so in my opinion. Generally speaking, while their doctrine may be more Biblical they fail in other areas the Pentecostals have succeeded in.
July 11th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Facelift:
You did more than suggest that a ‘cure’ for offense may be forgiveness. You admantly argued that all MUST forgive and forgive NOW.
Others like myself were suggesting that forgiveness is a process, a times due to the nature of offense people have encountered can be a complex, harrowing journey. To mandate forgiveness can be counter productive, to demand acceptance of any worldview off putting. The notion of forgiveness may even be seen as promoting injustice or ignoring accountability for offense to some. People may not have a christian worldview, may be reassessing faith beliefs or may not be far enough along in their individual healing for real forgiveness to be given etc etc etc. A recent compass program looked at the notion of forgiveness in all it’s complexity and difficultly. An anglican priest lost her daughter in a terrorist attack- it was compelling and honest viewing.
You remained so staunch in your view of forgiveness, that is fine, that is your belief but it does not leave much room for dialogue with others in the end.
July 11th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
Fabio - I don’t live in Sydney.