Hillsong conference 2006
Sorry to be slow on the uptake on this, but Hillsong 2006 is up and running. Anyone who wants to post reviews, discussion or articles about the 2006 conference, do it in this thread (just so we can try to keep things together a bit).
Ta muchly.
July 10th, 2006 at 10:23 pm
Yes Spiritual Consumers Beware!
This is my favourite Church Circular:
Now the question is why was Brain invited to Isreal …? God’s hand in it … ? A Prophetic End Times Encounter …? Was Brian there to help shape the destiny of the Land of “Miilk and Honey”?
Or was it at the invitation of the Isreali Ministry of Tourism looking for the custom of religious pilgrims from large Churches …?
We would love to hear all about your trip Brian. We won’t be bored. Please join us here at signposts.
July 10th, 2006 at 10:28 pm
Luke and Lance … Count the Lionfish in - We are off to see Kenny together!
With my sack of agricultural produce for the love offerings!
July 11th, 2006 at 12:10 am
That quote is amazing …
Gee I would love to go back to the piano bar at the Park Hyatt, in Sydney, or the Ritz Carlton Double Bay, or “Sun City” in South Africa with the visiting veryimportantbigpastors stay after a major crusade … and listen to the stories of Bravado of how dumb the congregation really is to swallow the biggest, riskiest most out-there ludicrous story!
I guess they teach you that at cult leader school … create a mysterious ‘larger than life’ persona!
July 11th, 2006 at 1:00 am
To anyone I offended by posting comments last week: I apologise. It was not my intention to personally insult or offend anyone by talking about forgiveness.
I stumbled on this site when looking for some information on Hillsong conference and was confused and curious about Neil presumably paying to go to a conference held by a church he obviously disagrees with, so I posted to ask him why. Thanks for your response, Neil - you answered my original question (not that it’s actually any of my business - I was just curious).
Lance’s response to me about the process of dealing with trauma and confronting things got me thinking about the healing process we need to go through when we’ve been hurt and it struck me that the ‘need to be in control’, as he described it, omitted anything about forgiveness. It seemed like an obvious thing to add, seeing as Jesus gave such direct instruction about it, so I thought it was appropriate and relevant to discuss forgiveness and the power of it.
Was I trying to emotionally blackmail anyone? No. I don’t know how it is even possible for a person to emotionally blackmail another person that they don’t know using text on a blog; neither do I know what a person would gain from doing that (I can’t think of how it would affect me in any way if anyone else forgives or not). It was certainly not my intention to do emotionally blackmail Neil, Lance or anyone else.
Am I naïve and ignorant? Possibly. I do not know anyone on this site, nor do I know what they have been through, so I am certainly ignorant in that respect. However, I was not, as I said in my response to Lance, trying to give him advice about his or anyone else’s situation – I was thinking theoretically about the topic he brought up and thought it would be good to refer to what Jesus himself said, seeing as Jesus is the one we’re following.
Was my advice glib? I wasn’t actually offering advice, but rather writing my thoughts down, sharing a tiny bit of my experience and asking a question. I do realise, though, that when people are in the middle of trauma, they need to be met where they’re at and supported and encouraged. I think I was at fault for not addressing my post as if to someone or people who are going through trauma. As I said, I stumbled across the blog and added a comment that I thought was relevant to an objective public forum. I’ve never posted on a blog before and didn’t fully consider how vulnerable people might be or how emotionally invested in a blog. I do genuinely apologise if it was insensitive.
Do I stand by what I said? Yes, pretty much. Apart from not fully considering the emotional state of people on the blog, which I’ve apologised for, I was essentially pointing out what Jesus said about forgiving ‘anyone’ we hold things against, so how can I not stand by it? It’s not my idea – its His. None of our opinions matter as much as the authority of the bible.
Do I think it is easy or a ‘quick fix’ to forgive? No. My experience tells me it’s a process that can be very difficult and sometimes long. My personal opinion, if its worth anything, is that we can forgive some things only by God’s grace and in his strength. Nevertheless, Jesus didn’t say we should only forgive those we find it easy to or only forgive so-called ‘minor wounds’.
I have to say, that I was really surprised to see such a negative response from Christians to an objective comment about the power of forgiveness, which is a basic of Christianity. But, I think I’ll keep my personal opinions about a lot of what I’ve read on this blog to myself (if people were offended by what I wrote about forgiveness, they definitely won’t welcome my thoughts on anything else!), because it would probably end up a bit too much like 2 Timothy 2:14.
Anyway, I’ve spent long enough on this already! I’m not a blogger and may never be back on this site, so I hope that I’ve apologised for any offense, which was not intended. I guess I am a ‘three-hit wonder’, but I won’t apologise for that.
I truly hope that anyone struggling because of injustice and/or trauma finds the comfort and truth they need in the Holy Spirit and is able to move on from strength to strength.
July 11th, 2006 at 10:43 am
Ok, so we’ve gotten 3 of us so far….any other takers?
July 11th, 2006 at 11:17 am
I said when and where it was on….I didn’t say I was going…lol.
July 11th, 2006 at 11:27 am
Hehe….ok…..Lance has gone soft on us. Liionfish better still be in, I’m not facinf these barnacles on the boat of Christ solo.
July 11th, 2006 at 11:38 am
The reason why the ‘forgiveness’ thing is such an issue..is that the call to forgive is made in the context of a Christian sub-culture..where it is now expected that anyone has carte blanche to do anything they want to you..and they don’t have to answer for it.
Jesus did teach to forgive. But there are also teachings about ‘leaving your gift at the altar and GOING and making peace with your brother’…and ‘if your brother COMES TO YOU for forgiveness’ (then you should forgive 70 X 7..blah blah blah).
The clear intention is for forgiveness to be part of a process of restoration and reconciliation…involving the repentent sinner.
But that is clearly….CLEARLY ignored by pastors in particular because of their super-sized egos…
That is no better evidenced than in the sexual abuse scandals in the churches over the past few decades..where sexual abusers were simply overlooked…or moved on to a new church..and the victims were just meant to ‘get over it’.
That approach is now rightly seen as inadequate…just as the call to ‘just keep forgiving’ is inadequate…….in a Christian culture where spiritually abusive pastors have free reign to do what they want ..when they want.
That’s not how it’s meant to work….and I refuse to subscribe to a corrupted system that protects the abuser.
July 11th, 2006 at 11:40 am
“Hehe….ok…..Lance has gone soft on us. Liionfish better still be in, I’m not facinf these barnacles on the boat of Christ solo.”
Geez..I didn’t say I wasn’t going either….October’s a long way away……..we could be dealing with radiation sickness from a North Korean missile by then.
July 11th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
Given the dodginess of their technology, I think we’d be safer from North Korean missiles if they were aiming at us, I have to say.
Anyway…..I’m sure there’s a humourous parallel between Kim Jong-Il’s rockets and Kenneth Copeland’s theology, but my brain’s not working today.
July 11th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
Well I’m coming, or going, or whatever. I realise you guys don’t know me, but you can count me in.
I’m also going along to Transform at Churchlands later this month for a dose of American Theocracy, sorry, theology. I forget who’s there, a couple of those authors that write blurbs promoting each other’s books.
July 11th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
OK…..we shall we all meet then?
July 11th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
Sounds like a plan!
July 11th, 2006 at 3:33 pm
Very good. I love me a bit of crap theology and manipulative preaching. Lock up your wallets….the Copelands are in town.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:28 pm
Bummer - a lynching mob ….er….heresy hunting group outing & I’m in another country.
I’ll be there in spirit ok?
July 11th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
I can’t stand the Copelands…
I used to think they were funny, not like they intended to be really, but their accents and mannerisms were so American it made me laugh.
Then it happened.
I remember a few years ago, early morning TV, and he was whining to the cameras about how he NEEDS to upgrade to a luxury jet to continue his ministry. They showed a 2 minute video of the lear jet in flight, obviously lifted straight from the company, and simply superimposed the text ‘They shall rise up with wings as eagles’ across the bottom of the screen.
He then went on to hold up a matchbox car, which was an old dodgy broken pickup truck. He started saying that at the moment, his ministry was using the Truck to get around, this beat up old machine, and that he couldnt possibly continue without upgrading to a multi-million dollar jet. Not only that, while one dodgy pickup was currently enough, once they upgraded they couldnt possibly get by with one plane, heck no! They needed TWO luxury lear jets to get around.
Pissed me off immensly.
Hillsong isn’t that bad yet. Thank goodness.
July 11th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
I think alot of the negative points being brought up about the conference are picking at the the small details rather than what the conference is about.
In one of the evening sessions (with J. Franklin) he talked about the “middle ground” and how to acknowledge conflicting interests, opinions and ideologies in the modern church and put yourself in the midst of that, sacrificing your own standing sometimes to keep peace and unity.
Some may think that Hillsong is about money, it isnt, money is only one part of church life anywhere. If you could see the difference this church is making in our city here in sydney you would understand how much of an asset this church is to the community, and how they address the needs of the city.
You may come into the conference and think “what a bunch of money-hungry mungrels they are!” or “that speaker is so dumb, why is he even in there?”. I think it is cruel to say that, those people are giving worship to god, why are we mocking that? As with the money, if you think the church has collected enough offerings in the five days/nights to pay for the 5 million dollar cost of running the conference… think again. Hillsong didnt take a step of faith and believe that the 5million dollar cost will be paid during the taking of the offerings, they took a step of faith that by shouldering that cost, the delegates would receive impartation and encouragement to help with their christian/church lives. People at hillsong church are bringing the best they can for God, giving up their time, and giving their best worship to minister to people who visit the conference. Comments like ” oh how crap was that opening compared to last year’s, haha!” and “… you call that spectacular? im disappointed” … just shows how little they understand what hillsong is all about. Hillsong is about worship… giving worth to god because He is worthy, hillsong brought into the table their offering may it be praise, worship, service, ministry… its not upto us to judge how well or how excellent that offering is… that is not important… to hillsong… God takes priority, and it doesnt matter to hillsong if they dont make enought money to cover the expenses of the conference which has been the case in the past few years, it doesnt matter how crap we think the “performace” was. Anyone can put on a “show” and make it excellent and a “crowd pleaser”… but that is not worship, hillsong is about the worship of God and how to inspire people to do the same: by music, servitude and living everyday christian lives. They sow into the community, they risk being thrown at them humiliating and derogatory remarks about what Hillsong church is offering to God.
Those of you guys who just went to Hillsong to point, snare and look for holes in the preaching in which hillsong has stood the middle ground for…. what are you offering to God exactly? Going to the conference is an act of worship, it is sacred… and for alot of people, they look forward to receiving ideas and learning about ways to glorify God. I may not agree with some points brought by some speakers, or the way some things in hillsong are run, but completely discrediting the conference is not the way to do it. It’s really sad if you guys just went to the conference just to do this, coming there is about giving your worship to god, by being diligent at improving your christian life.
July 11th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
As much as I agree with you, prepare yourself, I think you might be about to get shot down a bit…
July 11th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
MrJuicyMac,
Thankyou for your input.
It’s a pity you either can’t read or can’t be bothered to take the time to read what people actually post here. But I guess if you are part of Hillsong looking beond the surface is not what you are used to or encouraged to do. Because you can’t be bothered reading….
I used to be a part of Hill$ong in volunteer leadership. Many other people here used to be in paid leadership. So i think we know a little about what we are talking about.
Personally, my problem with Hill$ong is in their dodgy doctrines, poor teaching, poor shepherding and poor impact in the community/society. So why wouldn’t I comment on those things instead of going on in a general sense talking about the pupose of the conference? I have no problem with the purpose of the conference. I have big problems with Hill$ong manipulating people and twisting scripture to extract money. And what do they do with this money? Please send me a copy of the full financial accounts of Hill$ong church so I can see where they spend it all. Yes I am an Accountant! The money doesn’t make it’s way to helping people! From what I can see from the inside and the outside is that Hill$ong spends it’s money on extremely high executive salaries, cars, and buildings and sound and light systems.
How many meals has Hill$ong put on people’s tables? How many Compassion Children are sponsored by Hill$ong Inc …not individual church members? How much is the budget for the Hill$ong Emerge Street Teams? $500 a year? Exactly what, in specific terms, is Hill$ong doing to help the community?
Exactly what difference is Hill$ong making in our city of Sydney? Because I live here bro and besides giving Jesus a bad name I cannot see one thing.
Gee I wish I was wrong about all of this!
July 11th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
MrjuicyMac
Back in 2003 within a Sydney Morning Herald Article http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/28/1043804401241.html Brian Houston was directly quoted as saying the following:
(Brian speaking): “I want to make it clear that I cost this church nothing, I want that on the record.” He earns some of his money, he says, as a property developer, “being a silent partner with a couple of guys from the church in building developments”, ….
Now recently there seems to be denials “I have never been a Property Developer” (Letters to editor BRW June 2005) and also in the Australian Story interview on ABC back in (August 2005). The transcript of the Australian Story Article is at this link:
http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2005/s1427560.htm
The journalist for the SMH article in 2003 has been questioned about your comments above and he has acknowledged that the 2003 comments are a direct quote.
Because Hillsong is ‘not about the money’, it’s about truth and God and stuff … could you ask Brian on my behalf for an explanation for the discrepancy.
And while you are at it, because it’s not about the money, can you please ask for copies of the full audited financials for Hillsong Church Inc, Leadership Ministries Inc.
Others have tried and failed…
So when you get answers to these fundamental questions I may give you some level of credibility.
(Psst. Hillsong is also listed as and acts like a cult group: http://www.rickross.com/groups/hillsong.html
July 11th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
Heresy occurs when a teacher messes with the Gospel. Did any of the preaching at the conference preach a relevant, watered down, man-centred Gospel? Watch out when speakers say that we need to make our teaching “relevant”. The etymology of the word relevant is quite interesting – its origins have the same root as the word relieve or “to lighten”. The Apostle Paul warns about preaching “another Gospel”.
Check for:
1. God wants to bless you and prosper you.
2. God has a wonderful plan for your life
3. God has a man shaped hole in his heart that only you can fill (he he!)
These are just a few checks you can make to see if it is a stinky Gospel message. God does bless us in so many ways, but this must never be the motivation of the sinner coming to Christ. God does not have a wonderful plan for your life – this comes from mishandling of scripture from Jeremiah. Jesus directly spoke about the promise of trials, hardships and persecution for those that follow Him. This too should not be a motivation. And point 3 – its not all about us! Jesus died on the Cross to glorify the Father. True he does love us, but its not all about us –
The problem with so much of Pentecostalism is that you have a whole bunch of Armenians running around that don’t know that’s what they are. They have know idea of how to read the bible properly, how to preach expositionaly and have no idea that anything called sound doctrine exists. I was one such Pentecostal (for 12years)till about 6months ago when I came across the teaching of the way of the master video series and also the way of the master radio http://www.wotmradio.com (highly recommend it to you if you are into sound doctrine and passionate, intelligent, effective evangelism).
July 11th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
Oh, sorry just jumped in there on that post. I should have introduced myself. The reason that I came to read this post and the one on the ABC (for the last couple of hours) was that I was quite concerned about the Hillsell conference thing and I accidentally let some of my students know about it. They were so shocked that I was not pumped about the conference taking place that they told their mum - who was also gob smacked. Today we had a heated discussion about it. They went on about how its so good and that I was just being judgemental, that I was being jealous because of the size of Hillsell. We are meant to judge the body – especially when its has weird bits sticking out of it. We are meant to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
My question to this forum is “what can be done to improve it?” I guess prayer is the starting point. Checking the log in our own eye, etc. Beyond that what can be done?
July 11th, 2006 at 11:58 pm
Gotta love the comments from those sticking up for Hillsong. It still burns me to hear people sticking up for them. If you read your bible you would clearly see that what they preach is utter crap. And don’t even bother to respond to my comments because I have seen the damage that pentecostal churches inflict upon their congregation and the huge fall out rate. Ask those who have left the response they have recieved and how they now feel about church.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:15 am
b-Dan: My question to this forum is “what can be done to improve it?” I guess prayer is the starting point. Checking the log in our own eye, etc. Beyond that what can be done?
I truly believe that the most effective thing is modelling an alternative reality. I believe this in terms of activism too - I *do* believe in taking to the streets in protests against war, harsh immigration policies etc, but I believe that the most effective form of grassroots change occurs when people live their lives differently, when we model an alternative reality - when we live as if, because of Christ, everything has changed.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:35 am
on a side note - don’t know if you saw this commercial down under, but it is a lot like church…
http://www.smallchurch.com/Movies/eds-cat-herders.mov
July 12th, 2006 at 11:55 am
What can be done to improve it?
Finding a way to express our Australianess in the church rather the the imported American model that is on show in every Pentecostal, Charismatic church. I know that’s a contradiction, as the movement started in the US, but we are not Americans, our heritage is completely different and therefore our spirituality is as well.
If there’s one thing Aussies are good at, it’s seeing through the bullshit and being real. Why can’t we be real in our faith as well? It really scares me to see the direction this country is taking - which is why I don’t support a republican movement anymore.
We need to get back to the teachings of Jesus, pure and simple. I often wonder what would happen if Jesus walked into Hillsong, or Riverview or CCC. They’d probably put him in a seat up the back and tell him to be quiet, they have everything under control.
People need to start speaking out about all this. Being radical, calling a spade a spade, questioning and confronting issues. Why are we so complacent? Why don’t we challenge power? But I guess the more important question is how?
July 12th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Michelle and Bec…I so agree!
I can’t stand the way Australian churches are just becoming puppets of the right wing US churches…it’s scary…although merely reflecting what is happening in our Australian society as a whole…
And I agree..we do need to show an alternative reality. One that captures the essence of Jesus and holds dear to who we were created to be…
But it’s tough…there’s not many churches out there that actually reflect that…we’ve been “church-less” for the last 8 months as we just so tired of the hyped up, “you’re a princess” mentality…
where are the churches that encourage you to use your head and your heart?
July 12th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
i go to a pretty good one… where do you live?
July 12th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
I live in Perth, know of any around here?
July 12th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
Hey Michelle…I’m in Perth too.
The only one that has stood out for us so far (although we haven’t attended regularly at all - mainly because I think we ultimately needed a break from the whole thing) is St. Matt’s in Shenton Park.
It’s an Anglican church. Seems to be very community minded…no hype…and some of the most thought-provoking 15-20 minutes sermons I have heard in my life…
The first few times we went, we couldn’t believe how much the name of “Jesus” was mentioned…and we’ve been going to churches for the last 15 years!