Hillsong conference 2006
Sorry to be slow on the uptake on this, but Hillsong 2006 is up and running. Anyone who wants to post reviews, discussion or articles about the 2006 conference, do it in this thread (just so we can try to keep things together a bit).
Ta muchly.
July 12th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
pj asked how do you find a good church?
Dont waste your time visiting them on Sundays. You will waste months of your life. Do what I did; ring up pastors in your area and aske them them these questions: http://www.ttwministries.com/articles/How%20To%20Find%20A%20Good%20Church.pdf
You may be surprised by their answers. Also, even if you are not looking for a good Chruch, why not ring up several pastors and ask them these questions just out of curiosity.
I was shocked to find out firsthand what some chruch leaders believe.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Not everyone on Signposts likes their church to be as conservative as the guidelines here. To pick just one example, I’m a woman in training for ministry, which is of the devil apparently, based on the recommended response.
I think the health of the congregational life and ministry should be looked at, not only the theology of the pastor… who might tick all the theological boxes you like… but the church may lack love and evidence little life of the Spirit. And the minister might tick all the theolgical boxes you like, and in fact be a money grabber or control freak.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Thanks pj - seems there are a few West Aussies on here. Perhaps we should organise some sort of get together.
I live a bit far from Shenton Park, but thanks, might check it out.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
I’m in West Perth, and I can tell you that Mt Hawthorn Church of Christ is ok, if you like those Protestant sort of things
July 12th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Oh, and a catch up is always good - I’m in the city, and a few of us have already met for coffee/lunch/etc….feel free to grab my email at least from Dan or Phil, I’m sure Lionfish would be keen as well…..
July 12th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
22yo Hanna from Oklahoma writes…
“A Week in Sydney’s Red Light District
Romans 8:28 …all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
The thing was that my mom asked me to find us a place to stay in Sydney the night before we left China.
So I just searched online and found a place that looked nice and was cheap and it said it was close by the Olympic Arena where the Hillsong Conference was.
So I just went ahead and booked us in there for a week.
Only when we arrived in Sydney were we told that Kings Cross was Sydneys Red Light district and considered the most dangerous area in all Australia. yes! Im such a genius…any booking requests? bring it on! lol
Anyways, we caught a minibus and arrived at our little hotel….while my mom was getting our room keys I started talking to this girl who just looked so miserable and lost, her name was Jacky, shes in a wheelchair and a lesbian, she was in Sydney for a Queer Conference.
I told her she should come to the Hillsong conference with us instead and she gave me a dirty look and said she didnt think fundamental christians as she called me would appreciate her presence…
I smiled and told her that she was more than welcome to come and that God loves everybody. Her expression changed slightly and she asked me if I was very religious lol….
I just shook me ahead and told her I didnt believe in religion but my relationship with God was the most important thing in my life.
She smiled and asked me about the conference (the Hillsong conference) that we were going to. I saw her again the next morning and she just smiled and than spun off in her wheelchair before I could say anything.
The week just continued like this…meeting random people everywhere we went…….”
From http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=4860584&blogID=143243205
July 12th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
Janet, thanks for responding to my post (152)
I am not against women in ministry. All I know is what Paul said and that it was specifically relating the capacity of having teaching authority over a man. His rationale for saying this is that it glorifies God to honour His creation order. Don’t ask me how it works, but the reason given is God’s glory. There are heaps of other vital ministries a woman may do and much is reported in Acts of women in ministry, just not teaching men in a meeting.
I know it may seem weird, and you will have a strong conviction about it all (being in training for ministry). I know you will have an understanding of scripture that will cause you to be offended by my comments. Please, I mean not to insult your intelligence or make you angry.
On a lighter note, thank you for your point about checking the life of the body. This is timely for me because I can easily go the way of ‘truth, truth, truth’ and forget about ‘love, love, love’. Just focusing on truth can make us harsh in dealing with others; wielding a sharp sword without knowing we are hurting others. Just focusing on love may lead us into error and misunderstanding scripture. That beautiful balance must be maintained.
All for Christ’s Glory!
July 12th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Sounds good Luke, we’ll have to organise a time that suits us all.
July 12th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
Sure grab my email, I’ve got ‘Lionfish’s…we’ll rig it up.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
Hello again b-Dan. I hope I didn’t offend you for… perhaps… teaching something!!!! (excuse my cheek!!!!)
Within the scholarly evangelical tradition, much effort is expended to understand the culture and context in which a passage is written in order to interpret it correctly for today. (eg do we greet each other with a brotherly kiss? Why, or why not? Do women wear veils in church? Why or why not?)
The passage you refer to about authority has a very specific context… I raved on about this a bit toward the end of the “coming out of the closet” thread (archives January 2004 here) if you’re interested in looking at another way that Christians interpret this authority passage.
I respect that others have a different opinion on this.
Good luck in your church hunt if you’re on one… may you find one that is rich in both the word and the life of the Spirit.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Even Hill$ong has women in ministry!
July 12th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
Generally blonde and fluffy ones. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that!!!)
July 12th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
“Generally blonde and fluffy ones. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that!!!)”
There is when it is between the ears!
As one who was “in ministry” there & never quite fit, trust me, there is a certain “breed” of women being raised up there for leadership.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:49 pm
I’m sorry! Call me old fashioned but I don’t like it when women fluff!
July 12th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
Au contraire Neil… you sound like a liberated man. Men usually like fluffy types when they’re chauvinists who like to feel a little bit superior to women. There are few things more annoying to a chauvinist than an encounter with a woman who is smarter than them…. fluffy women are “safe”.
Well… that’s my biased opinion anyway.
Jane, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being blonde and fluffy, (not everyone can be a Rhodes scholar!) but if there’s a culture where one HAS to be fluffy to be acceptable (and in leadership) there’s a very strange dynamic at work.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
oh Janet…it was a fart joke…but thanks for the compliment!
July 13th, 2006 at 12:05 pm
There was a fascinating discussion last Sunday night on John Cleary’s religion program on ABC non-local radio involving two young people involved in the Hill$ong Conference…and two young people attending the Uniting Church’s Assembly in Brisbane.
http://www.abc.net.au/sundaynights/stories/s1682198.htm
What became clear over the course of the program…is the difference between young Hill$ongers and other churchgoers…is that the other churchgoers were learning HOW to think…and the Hill$ongers are being told WHAT to think.
A comical highlight was when John Cleary asked the Uniting Church youth about social justice and the Government’s industrial relations laws…and then put the same question to the Hill$ongers….who were stumped…basically because Brian and Bobbie haven’t told them what to think about that yet.
You can hear the discussion here…
http://www.abc.net.au/sundaynights/asx/Sunday9July2006.asx
or
http://www.abc.net.au/sundaynights/ram/Sunday9July2006.ram
Also…a couple more articles wrapping up the Hill$ong Conference…thanks to Lionfish..
http://world.christianpost.com/article/20060710/22846.htm
http://world.christianpost.com/article/20060705/22737.htm
July 13th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
b-Dan - that is a very concervative list of questions and responses - what christian tradition are you from?
Janet, I thought yopu handled that with a great deal of dignity and charity - I was wating for Dan to get burned as well - congratualtins everyone - first weirdo in awhile not to get burnt - shit, I just called him a weirdo - just mucking around Dan - but I would’t gop to any church that sounded like it met with the aproval of the writer of that list of questions
July 13th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
Greg, I only just read that list, and I had the same reaction.
I am a big believer in diversity in the kingdom and in the church, and in fact there is a heap of it already around. If you don’t believe in women in ministry, I might disagree with you, but there are plenty of churches whose answers would let you get past that part of the phone interview. So if you believe that, then it is probably a better fit for you to attend one of those churches.
The church that might be identified from that list of questions might be a “good” one, but I think if I were to trot off and start attending that church, the results might not be very glorifying to God (on my part or on the part of the church).
b-Dan, I think that the important thing in finding a “good” church is critically evaluating a community and discerning whether it is a place that would nurture you and challenge you towards God and compassion for others. The big mistake (in my view) is to either roundly dismiss everyone involved in a particular church because of its failings, or alternatively to numbly accept that everything about a church is right and good.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:58 pm
Neil… there’s such a tragic irony in my ranting on about silly women being in leadership, and completely missing an obvious joke!!!! I’ll go to the hairdresser and ask to be turned into a fluffy blonde to match. (with apologies to all those intelligent natural blondes out there.)
Thanks for the compliment Greg… I’m actually a fundamentalist literalist on the command to love your neighbor as you love yourself. I do try.
I’ve been reflecting on the list too… Jim Jones of Jonestown masacre fame probably started out with conventional beliefs, and may have ticked all the “right” boxes on the survey. So many cult leaders start out sounding perfectly orthodox.
A test of the character of the pastor (and of the key leaders) is probably a pretty good way to assess the likely health and vitality of a church in the long haul. But how can you tell their character? It needs to be tested over time… no simple answers alas.
July 13th, 2006 at 6:25 pm
Trust me! If there is a fart joke to be found…I will find it!…Maybe that should be on the b-Dan list….Are they able to discern fart jokes?…..hmmmm
July 13th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
Yet another grounds on which I would fail the b-Dan test. Oh well, as original Dan says, there are many churches out there!
July 13th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
I have posted all my Hill$ong Conference Daily Diary entries from Signposts on my MySpace blog. I have a couple of people I went to Hill$ong college with as “Friends” on MySpace. My my my blog has been view 108 times since I posted the entries two days ago…….
July 14th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
Don’t, whatever you do, add you post using that little box down the bottom of this page. I just nearly finished my post and accidentally clicked to go back a webpage and lost it all. But I’m sure to be speaking to the converted here. Has anyone ever done that? Now I’m doing it in word first.
Ok, what I was going to say was something like:
Thanks if you have read the list. Yes it is conservative. My background, as I alluded to in 141, is Pentecostal for the last 12 years. I won’t go on with my testimony because it may bore you, as it sounds like any other. One part of it, however, occurred when I lived in Sydney for 2 years (whilst in the Navy) and was part of a fast growing pseudo Christian cult for a short while. I came out of this and attended Randwick Baptist (which you may be aware of concerning Toronto stuff).Ok, sorry, Greg asked! (check 141 for any more on my new thinking).
Janet, I did check the archive for “coming out” and read your perspective. I believe that a correct handling of scripture results in a complementarian conclusion. But I also believe that I am egalitarian in the same time. I will stand by this idea till I am shown otherwise, but I tried I kept an open mind when I read your ideas. If anyone wants to hear where this conservative newbie is coming from one good blog entry on the subject is at the T4G website: http://blog.togetherforthegospel.org/2006/06/thanks_mark.html
My problems with Hillsong are doctrinal. I believe that a lot of the teachers at the conference are dodgy as. I believe that their gospel is producing has errors in it and is producing false hope and false converts. I am amazed that to hear from reading this forum and the ABC Aust. Story forum that it goes deeper than that, they actually mess with peoples lives. I totally believe that the problem is coming from the teaching. There isn’t a sound bible preacher in the line up of the conference. I tried to find the post, but there was someone who reported on the conference earlier there was only one guy who was any good – the dude who spoke on worship. (Sorry cant find the number of that post).
Anyway there isn’t much I can do about it, but just be concerned that I am doing my best to try and understand (with the help of the Holy Spirit) what the Bible really says.
This sort of post provides a good outlet for the kind of people who hate what is going on.
Actually, I am a bit shocked to find that my conservative list has met with such a rebound. I read quite a bit of signposts, but obviously had not read wide enough. I am shocked because I don’t really understand how people can be against Hill$ong and not be conservative. Can someone please explain this to me? Is it coming from a social justice position – they are just a pack of rip off artists ? ?? That’s all I can come up with.
Ps (I know not everyone here hates hill$ong)
July 14th, 2006 at 5:10 pm
I think that the problems that many of the people here have with Hillsong are doctrinal as well, but perhaps for different reasons than you have. I certainly come from a tradition which is pretty far from the pentecostal idea so there is a whole bunch of stuff about Hillsong which is “not for me” but which I don’t object to. I have been to at least one conference in the past.
I think that a lot of people don’t like the prosperity doctrine (both in money terms but also in terms of “reward”) and others have problems with hillsong as an institution because it is less than forthright and transparent about issues of money and accountability.
Personally, my biggest issue with Hillsong is that it trumpets a success model which is being accepted uncritically by churches of all shapes, sizes and theologies. So a whole movement of churches is chasing the “success” of being a contemporary worship church in the model of Hillsong without ever analysing whether that is the best way for that church to connect with its community and culture.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
Luke et al,
Pencil me in for the Copeland gig as well.
Drinks before, during or after? Or all 3?
July 14th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
I think I might be in need of fortification by way of a stiff drink….so lets meet up somewhere beforehand. The Copelands might make more sense after a whiskey or three.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
I think maybe we need a grand entrance … hire a limo, rent tuxes with tails, tophats and canes etc.
Maybe even adopt posh Engwish accents that don’t pwonounce certain wetters pwoperly, what?
“Pweach bwuther Copewand, pweach”
July 14th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
Thanks original Dan. That was a really eloquent and sensibly put together summary of what I have seen going on here but not been able to articulate.
July 18th, 2006 at 12:34 am
dont worry b dan youve done well… we understand all too well but your arguement will be deconstructed by the hillsong faithful into one short sentence
“you must be one of those jelous, tall poppy cutters who hate us cause we’re better looking”