Comments on: The angel/devil divide http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/ musings from those on the journey Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:57:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: quietriot2 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143598 quietriot2 Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:35:17 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143598 Neil, Amen brother, you've tried valiantly to make the best for your kids in hard circumstances. The influences of "spiritual instruction" in whatever guise, can be comforting, reassuring, perplexing, challenging and downright hostile to some people. Those who are particularly susceptible to any one of the above are vulnerable unless they have a sound grounding in the basic tenets of the Christian Faith. I've also been hurt, in some of the ways that you describe, but also in cop outs of those I've trusted in the church when I've needed a bit of suport. Don't worry mate, God hears your heart and, as the scripture says " all things work for the better for those who believe in the Lord" Neil,

Amen brother, you’ve tried valiantly to make the best for your kids in hard circumstances.

The influences of “spiritual instruction” in whatever guise, can be comforting, reassuring, perplexing, challenging and downright hostile to some people. Those who are particularly susceptible to any one of the above are vulnerable unless they have a sound grounding in the basic tenets of the Christian Faith.

I’ve also been hurt, in some of the ways that you describe, but also in cop outs of those I’ve trusted in the church when I’ve needed a bit of suport.

Don’t worry mate, God hears your heart and, as the scripture says ” all things work for the better for those who believe in the Lord”

]]> By: Luke http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143559 Luke Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:59:31 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143559 "Forget women indefinitely"....? Geez, that never works. Don't even try it. Just try not getting involved with the crazy ones, the ones you think you can help. I know cos I do it too, only with different results to you. I end up having to disengage from a highly intense relationship after they see me as offering them a bunch of stuff - stuff I never really am comfortable with providing. I feel for you, brother. Life can be shitty sometimes, and it isn't your fault. For what it's worth, I'll pray for you too. “Forget women indefinitely”….? Geez, that never works. Don’t even try it. Just try not getting involved with the crazy ones, the ones you think you can help.

I know cos I do it too, only with different results to you. I end up having to disengage from a highly intense relationship after they see me as offering them a bunch of stuff - stuff I never really am comfortable with providing.

I feel for you, brother. Life can be shitty sometimes, and it isn’t your fault. For what it’s worth, I’ll pray for you too.

]]> By: Reve http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143558 Reve Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:45:24 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143558 What is the meaning you have found (if any) in why you have attracted these chaotic women? If you don't think me rude, intrusive & presumptuos can i suggest that a fearless inventory of what you subconsciously do to attract these women (with God's help, of course) might be in order before seeking more female companionship? If not for your sake for your kids. I'm sure you've done this. If i were you & straight i think i would have decided to forget women indefinitely & just be in Love with God. So many of us go for a different version of the same person over & over again, .....can you see now in retrospect that there was similarities amongst all of them & the hook that pulled you in each time? PS. If my care & interest comes across as arrogance you can tell me to MMOB & you won't hear another word! What is the meaning you have found (if any) in why you have attracted these chaotic women?
If you don’t think me rude, intrusive & presumptuos can i suggest that a fearless inventory of what you subconsciously do to attract these women (with God’s help, of course) might be in order before seeking more female companionship? If not for your sake for your kids.

I’m sure you’ve done this.

If i were you & straight i think i would have decided to forget women indefinitely & just be in Love with God.

So many of us go for a different version of the same person over & over again, …..can you see now in retrospect that there was similarities amongst all of them & the hook that pulled you in each time?

PS. If my care & interest comes across as arrogance you can tell me to MMOB & you won’t hear another word!

]]> By: Reve http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143557 Reve Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:30:02 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143557 Nel, oh my......... Wow.. Ummmm..... dude. It's seldom i don't know what to say. I'm trying to tap the Holy Spirit here to find the right words. Nel, oh my………

Wow..

Ummmm…..

dude.

It’s seldom i don’t know what to say. I’m trying to tap the Holy Spirit here to find the right words.

]]> By: bec http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143553 bec Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:53:35 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143553 Neil, my heart aches for you. Neil, my heart aches for you.

]]> By: bec http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143552 bec Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:50:12 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143552 Dan said: We know a couple whose marriage basically failed because the common understanding/agreement about kids before marriage was departed from by one of the partners. Totally mental. Dan, I've certainly seen this happen too...but I don't see it so much as a departure from some common understanding/agreement, but rather a shift in priorities, values, desires. And if people don't have the ability to negotiate that, it's tragic. Dan said: We know a couple whose marriage basically failed because the common understanding/agreement about kids before marriage was departed from by one of the partners. Totally mental.

Dan, I’ve certainly seen this happen too…but I don’t see it so much as a departure from some common understanding/agreement, but rather a shift in priorities, values, desires. And if people don’t have the ability to negotiate that, it’s tragic.

]]> By: Neil http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143544 Neil Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:00:55 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143544 Reve, Sorry if my love life has confused everybody in here. I have avoided using names but i think i am going to have to use initials because It is too confusing otherwise. The Time-line 1987 Married SC. SC ran off with some baptist guy and is now married to some uniting church minister somewher in western Sydney I believe. 1990 SC Divorced me. 1990 met FH. Was upset with God and and the way I was treated by the chruch SC and I went to over the SC affair. (Although I did nothing wrong - it must have been my fault!) Got FH pregnant and tried to make the best of a bad situation. First son was born in 1991. 1992 FH left us and ran off with a doctor. During late 1993 and early 1994 we started getting on well together and she became pregnant again. In December 1994 my 2nd son was born and I let FH move back in with us. In 1995 FH became pregnant again. In March 1996 my daughter was born. In July 1996 FH left again and shacked up with a guy who was supposed to be my best friend. I have looked after my kids on my own again since then. In June 1999 I stopped trying to outrun God! To cut a long story short, God made me go back to the church SC & I had gone to to discover that it had changed, the people had changed etc. It was a powerful period of forgiveness and restoration. In February 2002 I joined Hill$ong! In December 2002, I met and started dating MO. MO and I became engaged in July 2004. In February 2005, MO smashed my house up etc etc and I broke off the engagement. In February 2006 I walked out of Hill$ong's doors for the last time. As for Hill$ong's influence in the relationship... MO is a very emotionally fragile person. She has, what I believe are, borderline personality disorders. She has a very controlling personality and uncontrollable rage. She becomes a different personality when she flys into these rages and cannot even remember what she has said or done. Hill$ong preys on people like MO! MO became a worshipper of Hill$ong rather than Jesus! MO, coming from a catholic upbringing, already had a works mentality and Hill$ong just exploit that! Yes the destruction of the relationship was a testament to Hill$ong's cultish tendencies. Right now I am trying to build my life. I live each day for today! I make friends because I want to. Not as some morally reprehensible way of evangelising. I believe evangelism is the Holy Spirits job not mine or any one elses. I just try to love God and people. I am loving my kids to death! I am looking for a new woman! I am curious as to what a New Testament church really is and I think it is a cross between this blog and Geoff's idea of a Sunday afternoon at the Newport Arms...although somewhere closer to God's Country (the Shire) would suit me better. That's about it! I am not bitter. I am still hurt and that probably seeps out in some of my posts. Sorry if I have confused you in the past. Reve,

Sorry if my love life has confused everybody in here. I have avoided using names but i think i am going to have to use initials because It is too confusing otherwise.

The Time-line

1987 Married SC.

SC ran off with some baptist guy and is now married to some uniting church minister somewher in western Sydney I believe.

1990 SC Divorced me.

1990 met FH. Was upset with God and and the way I was treated by the chruch SC and I went to over the SC affair. (Although I did nothing wrong - it must have been my fault!)

Got FH pregnant and tried to make the best of a bad situation. First son was born in 1991.

1992 FH left us and ran off with a doctor. During late 1993 and early 1994 we started getting on well together and she became pregnant again. In December 1994 my 2nd son was born and I let FH move back in with us.

In 1995 FH became pregnant again. In March 1996 my daughter was born. In July 1996 FH left again and shacked up with a guy who was supposed to be my best friend. I have looked after my kids on my own again since then.

In June 1999 I stopped trying to outrun God! To cut a long story short, God made me go back to the church SC & I had gone to to discover that it had changed, the people had changed etc. It was a powerful period of forgiveness and restoration.

In February 2002 I joined Hill$ong! In December 2002, I met and started dating MO. MO and I became engaged in July 2004. In February 2005, MO smashed my house up etc etc and I broke off the engagement. In February 2006 I walked out of Hill$ong’s doors for the last time.

As for Hill$ong’s influence in the relationship…

MO is a very emotionally fragile person. She has, what I believe are, borderline personality disorders. She has a very controlling personality and uncontrollable rage. She becomes a different personality when she flys into these rages and cannot even remember what she has said or done.

Hill$ong preys on people like MO! MO became a worshipper of Hill$ong rather than Jesus! MO, coming from a catholic upbringing, already had a works mentality and Hill$ong just exploit that! Yes the destruction of the relationship was a testament to Hill$ong’s cultish tendencies.

Right now I am trying to build my life. I live each day for today! I make friends because I want to. Not as some morally reprehensible way of evangelising. I believe evangelism is the Holy Spirits job not mine or any one elses. I just try to love God and people. I am loving my kids to death! I am looking for a new woman! I am curious as to what a New Testament church really is and I think it is a cross between this blog and Geoff’s idea of a Sunday afternoon at the Newport Arms…although somewhere closer to God’s Country (the Shire) would suit me better.

That’s about it! I am not bitter. I am still hurt and that probably seeps out in some of my posts.

Sorry if I have confused you in the past.

]]> By: Reve http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143533 Reve Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:55:33 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143533 Laura, you are a cack! (that last paragraph) Yes, cats can be useful as ratters & micers, i had forgotten that. Neil, the fact that (& correct me if i've got this wrong) Hillsong supports your wife while you feel ostracised raising her children on your own leaves me flabbergasted! Conservative Family Values indeed! & what kind of woman allows a Church to suppress her natural instinct to consistently nurture her own husband & children! I guess you will answer that. It's not really my place to comment but i am so angry on your behalf. I think everyone on this blog feels an emotional connection to your plight (& your kids) & would offer every piece of advice & help you asked for. WE are your community, now. Im interested, - as you see it now, was your mariage already weak & flawed in the first place so it was easy for HS to drive a wedge or was it strong & it's destroyal a testament to HS's cultish tendencies & abilities? Laura, you are a cack! (that last paragraph)

Yes, cats can be useful as ratters & micers, i had forgotten that.

Neil, the fact that (& correct me if i’ve got this wrong) Hillsong supports your wife while you feel ostracised raising her children on your own leaves me flabbergasted! Conservative Family Values indeed! & what kind of woman allows a Church to suppress her natural instinct to consistently nurture her own husband & children! I guess you will answer that.

It’s not really my place to comment but i am so angry on your behalf. I think everyone on this blog feels an emotional connection to your plight (& your kids) & would offer every piece of advice & help you asked for. WE are your community, now.

Im interested, - as you see it now, was your mariage already weak & flawed in the first place so it was easy for HS to drive a wedge or was it strong & it’s destroyal a testament to HS’s cultish tendencies & abilities?

]]> By: Laura http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143531 Laura Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:38:54 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143531 I know a couple who married- he'd already had the three children and the snip- and ten years later she decided she desperately wanted kids and wanted him to have it reversed. He refused and now she is living with her new boyfriend and new baby. I don't expect my story to be very helpful to your decision :) On the dog thing, Reve said... "I guess I just grew up in a male-dominated household with a Dad from the New England region of NSW whom believed that animals should be utillitarian & useful, not admired for making a fool of humans ;o)" My dad thought that animals should be useful too- and we ate many of our own chooks, chook eggs, cows, dairy products and even pet rabbits. The dog did some guarding of the property, I'm sure, though most country people are pretty slack about protecting their lack of possessions. And the cat kept the property relatively free of mice. My dad was never embarrassed to make a fool of himself because of his love of animals though. Incidentally, I once had a cat who was very unhappy about a dog that ventured into our backyard. The last we saw of that dog was his backside as he ran off into the distance with the cat maintaining a tight grip on his back with her claws as she rode him out the gate. I know a couple who married- he’d already had the three children and the snip- and ten years later she decided she desperately wanted kids and wanted him to have it reversed. He refused and now she is living with her new boyfriend and new baby. I don’t expect my story to be very helpful to your decision :)

On the dog thing, Reve said…
“I guess I just grew up in a male-dominated household with a Dad from the New England region of NSW whom believed that animals should be utillitarian & useful, not admired for making a fool of humans ;o)”

My dad thought that animals should be useful too- and we ate many of our own chooks, chook eggs, cows, dairy products and even pet rabbits. The dog did some guarding of the property, I’m sure, though most country people are pretty slack about protecting their lack of possessions. And the cat kept the property relatively free of mice. My dad was never embarrassed to make a fool of himself because of his love of animals though.

Incidentally, I once had a cat who was very unhappy about a dog that ventured into our backyard. The last we saw of that dog was his backside as he ran off into the distance with the cat maintaining a tight grip on his back with her claws as she rode him out the gate.

]]> By: dan http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143504 dan Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:31:20 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/07/18/the-angeldevil-divide/#comment-143504 Well as people who have just about decided that our incorrigible dogs are as close as we are going to get to having kids of our own, I certainly don't begrudge you your feelings. We know a couple whose marriage basically failed because the common understanding/agreement about kids before marriage was departed from by one of the partners. Totally mental. Well as people who have just about decided that our incorrigible dogs are as close as we are going to get to having kids of our own, I certainly don’t begrudge you your feelings.

We know a couple whose marriage basically failed because the common understanding/agreement about kids before marriage was departed from by one of the partners. Totally mental.

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