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Russell Kelly rebuts Allan Meyer … again!

At Signposts we have been discussing and calling to account the theology on Tithing by a number of Australia’s wealthy Mega Church Pastors.

The great tithing debate that first appeared on Phil Bakers Blog has cascaded like a bar room brawl to Signposts and then across various sites on the Internet.

Dr. Russell Kelly has now reviewed the hermeneutics used by Allan Meyer on Phil Bakers blog and leaves no doubt that his teaching on tithing is grossly in error.

You too can be like a Berean in Acts 17:11 - thanks to D. Smith in QLD and check it all out here:

“Allan Meyer of Careforce Church has published a series of studies on Phil Baker’s blog. Allan Meyer also preached on tithing at the national Christian Outreach Centre ‘Infusion’ Conference to COC pastors gathered from around Australia. Russell Kelly has reviewed Allan Meyer’s preaching at that conference and Allan Meyer’s hermeneutics (on Phil bakers Blog)”.

Source: A critique of Allan Meyers teaching at Phil Bakers Blog: http://members.optusnet.com.au/tithingstudy/TheTithingHermeneuticsOfAllanMeyer.htm

Other teachings including Brian Houston can be found here: http://members.optusnet.com.au/tithingstudy/

This entry was posted on Saturday, September 2nd, 2006 at 10:13 am by Lionfish and is filed under the money jar. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

39 Responses to “Russell Kelly rebuts Allan Meyer … again!”

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  1. 31
    oygle Says:
    September 7th, 2006 at 11:40 pm

    Thanks, an interesting site, found one comment about tithing there …

    http://www.thechristianexpositor.org/page17.html

    33. Beware ‘leaders’ who promise ‘Wealth and Health?’

    The worldwide Church of God (Armstrongism) is now apparently undergoing reform, but the leaders still refuse to accept the way in which they were duped. At their worst they taught that God required two (sometimes three) tenths of every church member’s income as well as regular ‘free-will’ offerings. Many members lived in poverty and even acquired debts rather than risk ‘robbing God’ of His tithe money, only to discover years later that the money they supposedly gave ‘to God’ was spent by the leading ministers on luxurious homes, private airplanes and exotic pleasure trips (cf. the Word-Faith leaders)! Their financial sacrifices had been required to ‘help meet the expenses of the ministry’ or to contribute toward ‘a unique opportunity to witness to world leaders’! The Moonies work a similar scam!

    It is always a telling commentary on any religious organisation if the ministers get richer and the congregation poorer! Go to a Word-Faith meeting and watch the followers drive away in their poor to middle-of-the-road cars. And then watch the leaders drive away in their luxury cars or fly off in their private jets! Of course, this is because the leaders are practicing what they preach and have the faith to talk to their ‘fat wallets’ and ‘healthy bodies’ while the followers are weak in the faith. This is what they would tell you - but the truth is that the followers are like the duped in the Emperors Clothes ‘fairy-tale’ of Hans Christian Andersen. It was only when the young child shouted, ‘The Emperor has no clothes!’ that the scales fell from their eyes! We need to ask why Jesus did not live like the wealthy Word-Faith preachers:

    “Jesus said “The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head’” (Matthew 8:20)

  2. 32
    Lionfish Says:
    September 8th, 2006 at 12:08 am

    Oygle,

    The world wide Church of God had the courage to change and has now dropped the tithe completely!

    http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/sct/sct20.htm

    and

    http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/tithing.htm

  3. 33
    WIGGY Says:
    September 8th, 2006 at 11:36 am

    Oygle - Post number 29 “Tithing is unscriptural under the New Covenant”.

    You realise that Ray Smith who writes all the content for that site is of all things a Universalist don’t you? Matt from carm.org would be ashamed of you Oygle… Associating with the enemy, what were you thinking? Hah, just kdding mate but funny from my POV seeing as from what I recall of your previous posts you are fairly anti-UR.

    WIGGY

  4. 34
    oygle Says:
    September 8th, 2006 at 4:11 pm

    Hmm, well maybe Paul got one thing right (“Tithing is unscriptural under the New Covenant”), and another thing, er well, .. umm, .. not so ‘right. :D

  5. 35
    oygle Says:
    September 8th, 2006 at 5:19 pm

    When did this all start ? From Pagan Christianity - The Origins of Our Modern Church Practices - page 303

    “Tithing - Did not become a widespread Christian practice until the eighth century. The tithe was taken from the 10% rent-charge used in the Roman Empire and later justified by the Old Testament.

    Clergy Salaries - Insituted by Constantine in the fourth century.”

  6. 36
    Russ Kelly Says:
    September 9th, 2006 at 1:45 pm

    When I asked myself the question, “Why only food and animals?” I discovered that God only wanted tithes from that which He alone caused the increase! Think about it! The product of man’s hands could not be tithed because man would then claim a share in what was given from his own hand. The tithe came from God’s hand.

    That is why man’s INCOME was not to be considered a tithe.

    Does that make sense? It does to me.

    I have just updated my 16 point essay to include a discussion of money in Genesis. http://www.shouldthechurchteachtithing.com

  7. 37
    WIGGY Says:
    September 9th, 2006 at 3:25 pm

    Russ I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to scripturally debunk the spiritual slops that have dished up by the likes of Brian Houston, PDJ, DR Allan Meyer etc. The fact that these “men of God” cannot refute you and can’t even be bothered to uphold their teachings scripturally should be a danger sign for those involved within their respective churches… A “red light” should be going off here for spectators of this website (That’s James, Unknown, Vicky Pollard etc)

    If you’re a visitor and Russ has debunked your pastors teaching on tithing then take it up with him. Ask him personally why he cannot or will not respond to Russ. I think if you do have the courage to do that you’ll receive the exact same response that Russ has - a dead wall of silence.

    One other thing Russ, will you take on Phil Pringle? I’m happy to forward you a paper I have written debunking his tithe doctrine as found in his “Keys to Financial Excellence”. Alas tho Russ, I am a no more than a lay-person and do not have a “Phd” in theology…

    On ya Russ!

    WIGGY

  8. 38
    Lionfish Says:
    September 9th, 2006 at 6:45 pm

    Concur with the above entirely.

  9. 39
    Russ Kelly Says:
    September 10th, 2006 at 11:56 am

    Thanks Wiggy
    If you think they are worth debunking, then I will give it a try. It is like eating candy to me. I wish somebody would come up with something really new. These guys all eat out of the same slop-pen and cannot do anything but spit out proof-text arguments.
    Russ

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