The Official Handbook “How to Fleece For Fun & Profit”
In the tradition of “Amway and the Contemporary Church”
Comes the “Official Handbook of How to Fleece the Flock for Fun and Profit”
©2002 OAIM
Lionfish’s Hot Picks:
”If anyone challenges you as a prophet of God, remind them of the verse that says “touch not the anointed of God” and of the consequences of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
”Discourage the flock from reading the Bible for themselves. Remind them often of how the Holy Spirit spoke to you and this reduces the need for study of the Bible because you have knowledge that supercedes the Bible. Don’t forget to inject a verse here and there so they will be convinced that this is from God. Choose obscure verses so the flock doesn’t realize that they have nothing to do with what you are saying. …
If any of the flock attempts to read the bible on their own, make sure you direct them to your interpretation of the scriptures by showing them what it “really” means”.
”The most annoying people are those who keep insisting on sound doctrine and one must guard against this attack at all cost. Your income and reputation are at stake on this one. However, this can be easily overcome through the buzzwords of “Can’t we all just get along? We all love the same Jesus”. Convince the flock that doctrine is divisive and that to love the Lord is all that matters. This works well because they then are the ones labeled as divisive and it questions their spirituality. When this is accomplished, it makes it easy to dismiss what they are saying”.
”Emotionalism is essential for a flock-fleecing ministry. Mimic the most successful fleecers and practice this often until you have it down pat”.
”For a ministry to thrive, money must regularly be fleeced from the flock. Don’t take all of the money at once because it would drain the well dry, and you must be careful to spread it out over a very long time in order to raise your own income”.
“Remember that the corrupt nature of man is to seek after fame and fortune for themselves at the exclusion of others. You can be assured of a following as long as you continue to offer them the possibility of riches and power. Keeping this in mind, continue to appeal to the corrupt nature of man and spiritualize it by suggesting that the things they desire are the same things that God desires for them. Often repeat the phrases such as: “God desires for you to be rich, healthy and happy above everything else.” Avoid people who claim that spiritual maturity is more important in God’s eyes than financial success. Keep your flock from these types. They can be very devastating to your ministry”.
September 10th, 2006 at 3:49 am
“SABC employee Mmabatho Mathenjwa (not her real name) went to the Universal Church after being told by a friend, one of the church’s ushers, to expect “miracles”.
“But she said I had to sacrifice to receive. She gave me an example of a girl who sacrificed her car against her husband’s wishes and who got a house and a new job after that.”
During an event called “Sacrifice Week”, when followers were asked to sacrifice what they valued most to the church “to see that God works”, she had handed over her entire salary.”
From http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=283564&area=/insight/insight__national/
September 10th, 2006 at 8:28 am
“Huntley says Hillsong’s success is also due to its willingness to embrace consumerism, with the message that the pursuit of wealth and happiness on Earth is compatible with the love of God.”
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=reutersEdge&storyID=2006-09-08T074209Z_01_CAS826664_RTRUKOC_0_LIFE-AUSTRALIA-RELIGION.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage4
That’s straight from the handbook:
“Remember that the corrupt nature of man is to seek after fame and fortune for themselves at the exclusion of others. You can be assured of a following as long as you continue to offer them the possibility of riches and power. Keeping this in mind, continue to appeal to the corrupt nature of man and spiritualize it by suggesting that the things they desire are the same things that God desires for them. Often repeat the phrases such as: “God desires for you to be rich, healthy and happy above everything else.”
September 10th, 2006 at 8:44 am
“The message of Christianity doesn’t change, but the way you present it has to change with each generation,” said Dooley.
They have changed the message. Success has replaced pick up your cross and follow me.
Its the “all about me Gospel”.
September 10th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
LF I liked this
“…If you have those who start feeling like they want to leave, make a quick move to use fear and guilt to keep them in your flock. One tactic that is very effective is to threaten them with loss of their salvation if they leave. Also, threaten their children by saying that if they leave, their children will pay for their lack of faith. This is a good way of keeping them in line since most of them love their children very much…”
Phil Pringle does this a lot. Recently he said that he knew of someone who “stepped out of the house where God had planted them and things really started to go bad for them” He then went on about their children and how you’d be mad to take your children “out of the house of God”
I find it equally fascinating and disturbing that these CEO style leaders use and endorse these emotional blackmail style tactics.
WIGGY
September 10th, 2006 at 11:11 pm
I would agree that we would be mad NOT to bring our kids up within a (balanced) fellowship environment.
Of course he means - “This church”, his church, the same place where we have to pay our tithes to …
September 11th, 2006 at 8:09 am
Re #4 PP is not alone in this “raise the kids in the house & they will be successful” line. I heard it preached in H$ & a couple of networked churches. You were not “allowed” to use your kids as an “excuse” for missing a service.
Interestingly, there was a real class system in some of these churches amongst the kids too. The PKs (Pastor’s kids) were the ones who got taken to special outings, wore designer clothes , went to exotic overseas places with their parents, & hung with the cool guest artists who came through town. There is certainly a very interesting culture that has developed amongst the young kids who have grown up in these organisations.
September 11th, 2006 at 9:29 am
The PKs (Pastor’s kids) were the ones who got taken to special outings, wore designer clothes , went to exotic overseas places with their parents, & hung with the cool guest artists who came through town.
Of course, the PK’s are also those among the most marginalised, the ones who have the highest expectations put upon them, the ones that are the most ostracised, the ones that receive the brunt of unfair criticism, the ones who may grow up with absentee parents, the ones who make just as much sacrifice for “the ministry” as their parents.
I am one PK that grew up “in these organisations”… and it’s not easy. I may have met some great people… or some “cool guest artists” as you put it… had incredible input into my life… but the expectations, perceptions and things that people in “The Church” whispered in my ear was not fair… and comments like yours enforce are indicative of one aspect of that stereotype.
We hurt just as much as you… just not from the leadership, but from the congregation.
September 11th, 2006 at 9:31 am
Last sentence of para 3 should have read “generalisations about PK’s like that are indicative of one aspect of the PK stereotype, especially in pentecostalism”… i didn’t mean it to sound personal, Jane.
September 11th, 2006 at 9:32 am
Far enough Jamesh. I would agree re the expectations thing. I am speaking from 2 sides here too. Someone who saw it & someone whose kids were PKs.
September 11th, 2006 at 9:34 am
Sorry - “fair enough”. I am sorry for your hurt too.
Sadly though, I am seeing a whole lot of the PKs I knew as younger kids now “working the system”, getting “work experience” in Dad’s buddies churches overseas & basically having jobs created for them so that they can remain in the vacuum.
I fear for them long term.
September 11th, 2006 at 11:32 am
No problem… I didn’t mean to bite at you, I just tend to react when when pk’s get stereotyped - it’s one of my few irritants, as not all of us megachurch pk’s are “working the system”!
You’re right though… there certainly a few prominent ones out there doing it and it concerns me.
September 12th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
I’m A Christian Hedonist
Pastor Simon McIntyre
Christian City Church, Oxford Falls.
Sunday September 10, 2006.
10am service
“1 Timothy Chapter 6…and verse 17.
And…we read these words….which are very easily misinterpreted….both by the rich and the poor.
“Tell those who are rich in this world ..not to be proud ..and not to trust in their money …which will soon be gone. But that trust should be in the Living God …who richly provides us with all things for our enjoyment. Tell them to use their money to do good. They should be rich in good works..and give generously to those in need…always be ready to share with others whatever God has given them.”
Now just before we take up our offering …don’t forget to use the……if you’re using credit cards ….there is a tear-off slip in your newsletter. There are envelopes..otherwise..if you need them …and then we also have internet and EFTPOS facilities at the back of the hall later ..if you need those as well. If you haven’t got a newsletter with a tear-off slip …just raise your hand if you’re using a credit card…and there’ll be somebody around who’ll help you out. Fantastic.
Do you know this? Let me help you this morning in your giving. Very simple issue here. Rich people can read that..and feel condemned that they are rich. Poor people can read that ..and condemn the rich for being so…and they can be smug in their poverty. And middle class people..who are usually on the way up or down can have their own opinions as well.
But you know…..the scripture is not actually beating up about money.
It’s directing how we use it…and what God benefits in our lives…because of it. And here’s the very simple issue I want to say. And it’s like this.
To those of us….who comparitively with the rest of the world …are very rich people …when you compare….so let’s just do it like that today. We’re all rich. God has blessed us….and it’s a fact. We love in a wonderful land …with many privileges …and many opportunities. We are never to feel that we are hard done by.
But you know something…is if I try to enjoy my money ..without being generous towards God ….my money will make a mockery of me ..and it will enjoy me.
But if I am generous towards God …then I will truly enjoy whatever’s left over.
And I love this scripture…because it’s just not saying ‘give your money away’. It’s saying ‘this is what God’s like to those who are generous…this is God’s nature’.
If I am generous..if you are generous…this is God..this is His nature.
You understand ..whenever the bible talks about God …it doesn’t just talk about a concept …it talks about God in some way relating to us.
So here it goes. ‘God who richly provides everything for our enjoyment.’ When I am generous …the God who richly provides for my enjoyment .. comes to the party in my life.
Now I love that.. ’cause it says …’richly provides for all things’…..not for our ‘p-r-r-r-ractical use Hallelujah’ …not for further giving necessarily …but to also enjoy.
If you want to enjoy your money, then be generous first. If you want to get run over by your money, then don’t be generous…because no matter how much you’ve got..you won’t be able to enjoy it. But if you’re generous towards God ..and this is what I’m teaching you this morning….if we are generous towards God ..then what God allows us…or what we keep..we’ll enjoy.
It’s just not for bills. There’s something that God provides for you to just jolly well enjoy it.
Now years ago I wanted to get my pilot’s licence. And I said to the Lord this profoundly dumb thing. I said, ‘if you help me get my licence, I’ll use it for Your glory.’
To which I heard…like an impression came to me …’if you’ve got to bribe me… don’t bother asking.’
So my instructor said to me…so I went and did aerobatics …and to think that’s the sort of thing I’m going to do.
So I went..and he said to me ‘Padre’…he said, ‘are you using this for missionary flying?’ And I said ‘no you idiot’.
I said ‘I’m using it because I like flipping upside down in the sky..and I feel the pleasure of God when I’m having fun.’
But you know I wouldn’t if I wasn’t generous. I wouldn’t if I wasn’t putting God first. I’d feel guilty. I’d feel maybe I wasn’t doing right .
But if you are generous towards the Almighty …He will almightly bless you ..in a way that you could enjoy yourself.
I know guys in this church who are great givers..and they went..and one of them recently went and bought himself a big boat. You know what I say? Good on ya.
And if anybody says…’oh, tut,tut, tut, hallelujah, you ought to be giving to the poor’….you ought to see what the guy gives anyway. Then you zip your mouth….and go and play with your floaties in your own bath. (congregation - laughter)
He enjoys it. When I’m in the air …particularly by myself, because whenever I’ve got passengers ..I’m always thinking..’oh…I hope they’re enjoying this ….oh..they look very….ohhhh..they’re going to me…whoa..get out the bag’.
But when I’m up there…I’m just by myself and chuckle to myself …because I’m flying upside down..I’m pulling about
5 G’s in a corner or something …I’m thinking …’oh..I’m just enjoying this. I’m just enjoying it’.
So, if we’re generous towards God, we’ll enjoy our lives. And if we’re not…then we’ll be playing in the bath ..with a rubber duckie…and we’ll getting model aeroplanes and going neeeeeeee ’round in our heads…..or whatever the case may be.
So let’s pray…I’m not trying to be….I’m a Christian hedonist. You know what that means? I’ll explain it to you another time. (laughter).
Thank you Jesus ..for you have blessed us. We live in a wonderful country ..and most of us..if not all of us..have got a job to go to ..and a home to go to.
So we thank you right now that we give to you…we are generous towards you ..and you’ll become the God who richly provides everything for our enjoyment. That’s your name. We thank you for this privilege in Jesus’ name, Amen.
Thank you church”
Length of offering sermon…6:05min.
September 12th, 2006 at 8:24 pm
Of course….Pastor Simon was only joking…..when he said he was a Christian Hedonist….because surely ….one of Phil Pringle’s senior staff couldn’t see hedonism being compatible with Christianity……………..surely.
September 13th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
I might send that to the wife of the friend I knew who died of cancer recently. He gave generously from his heart, yet managed his money carefully. He died, despite hours of prayer, yet he trusted God to the end. I am sure it will help her to feel better. I am sure that she would like to see Christianity presented at its most compassionate. I must remind her of the hedonism bit. It will be a great comfort. Then I might send off some money to Simon McIntyre so that he can have some more flying lessons. My friend’s widow might like to send some too.
September 15th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
“The churches in Nigeria today are nothing but money collection outlets. In every sitting, in every meeting, generous offerings are solicited and collected. You dare not go to church with nothing in your pocket because you would be embarrassed. First, they would ask you to bring out the money you have brought to offer God out and hold it high. Then they would ask that if you have nothing to offer God, ask the person next to you to give you something to offer God so that you can participate in the blessings. Of course it is not so that you can participate; it is so that you can add to what is collected that day.
Amazingly, many offering collections had entered the faith so innocently that people are even afraid to think that they exist. When a friend got married, the trick that the church did was to give offering bowls to both wife and husband to hold and asked the congregation of people who had come to rejoice with them with “rejoice offerings”. The trick there was to make the couple’s guests see their eyes as they come out to make offerings. Those who danced out would be reluctant to throw small denomination of naira into the bowl. And then, if you were the guest of the groom, you would not want to be seen as not supporting the bride by not putting anything inside the bride’s bowl. So you were psychologically compelled to drop something in the two bowls! When he realized what was going on, and after about three times of ridiculously extorting money from his guests, he told the priest that he would not do it any more and he was ready to walk out of the church in protest befo re they stopped.
There are so many collections in the church of today. There is “tithe offering” (which is the initial 10 per cent of your salary), there is”church offering” (which is separate from tithes and very different from every other offerings to be collected that day). Then there is”pastor’s appreciation offering” which itself is different from the “pastor’s family offering”. Then there is “thanks giving” offering which is different from “testimony” offering (testimony offering is what you give to God for sharing testimony of a happy day) and many other absolutely ridiculous offerings in the name of God. If you were prudent not to spend so much money and you are the church goer, then that money you save will go to God through the pastor’s pocket.
When I spoke with some critical people about these worrisome collections in the churches, they told me that I was the stupid one that go to church with high denomination of the currency. If I were as wise as they were, I would change my money to the most basic denomination which would make it easier to give so many offerings in one Sunday while spending only the amount one originally intended to spend. Do not be angry with yourself that you approach God with a ridiculous amount of money or a cheap denomination of N20! Oh no… God did not ask the pastors to collect so many offerings. Besides, you would be giving not less than five times which makes it five times N20 going to church from you in that church service.
All the other offerings can be passed as innocent offerings. The type of offering which greatly bothers me is that which is “church building” offering. Every church does this. They collect money to build churches and in some other instances, to renovate the churches or pastor’s house.”
From http://allafrica.com/stories/200609010099.html
September 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
“We must get rid of such jests as, ‘I have given my widow’s mite’; “Anglicans are not willing givers to the Church”; “Tithing is un-Anglican”, etc. because these confessions are false, and have serious consequences on us as Christians who desire to obey God. ”
- Peter Akinola, Anglican Archbishop Metropolitan and Primate of All Nigeria.
September 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Now that makes me quite upset as an Anglican - Stipid Peter Akinola - he is the one who is trying to set himself up as an alternative leader for the worlds Anglicans - well not for this one!
September 18th, 2006 at 12:17 am
Letter to a Prosperity Preacher.
This is brilliant
September 18th, 2006 at 11:46 am
Yes Saint - brilliant! - an understatement.
“.I have to confess that I did’t give anything. It may be my British sensitivities, but it all struck me as a little less than tasteful. It may have been the fact that I’d spent the afternoon in a homeless shelter, but I didn’t really give a toss if you got a new transmitter or not. It’s possible that I missed the Wood for the trees, but I couldn’t see any mention of money (or giving) in the passage God had given you. Instead, it seemed (rather clearly) to be about leaving things behind (home, family, even one’s native-land) in order to follow Christ…”
September 18th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Remember…you heard this first at Signposts.
Phil Pringle
6pm service
Christian City Church, Oxford Falls.
Sunday, September 17, 2006
http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/1709066pm.rm
(1:02.30min mark of video)
Pringle is speaking here to the congregation of the benefits of filling in the National Church Life Survey forms.
“If the Government can see that we’re a strong body of believers throughout the nation……which exceed……our numbers [pentecostals] actually exceed the Anglican Church …not yet the Catholic Church…there’s about a million Catholics in Australia ….but at this stage…the pentecostals are around about 500,000 …..and….I think that’s about the number.
And that is a strong body of people to the Government.
And…we’ve already had meetings with Peter Costello and John Howard …and they are now putting together a proposal to us…as a body of believers ..around Australia..for work in the community ..to grant….to supply a grant of $300 million.
And so…when they see these kinds of surveys …they get convinced that this is a worthy cause.”
September 18th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
What the buggery sod do these people think they’re playing at?
September 19th, 2006 at 5:55 am
Christian City Church School of Pastoral Care Management.
Personal Conduct Policy.
http://www.ccc.org.au/spcm/default.asp?page=spcmCond
“The Church and the community see Ministry Training College students on the whole as ambassadors for Christ. As such, the conduct of those who commit themselves to the Christian City Church School of Pastoral Care & Counselling is to be, in both truth and appearance, in accordance with principles laid down in Scripture. Specific conditions include:
Smoking - is not permitted during College hours or on CCC grounds and is seen as undesirable and needing to be rectified. Pastoral or counseling help can be arranged if necessary.
Mixed flatting - Under normal circumstances the College does not approve of mixed flatting.
Morality - As a student in School of Ministry, we expect you to live by the high standard of excellence worthy of that calling. Students are expected to maintain a lifestyle that will not have a negative influence on their Christian growth. Drug use, sexual immorality, dishonesty and violence are not acceptable for any College student.
Attitude and behavior - Attitudes need to be commensurate with people seeking and serving God. Students are expected to display respect for College staff and other students at all times. In all matters, students should seek to display the fruits of the Holy Spirit … Galatians 5:22, 23 But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
Alcohol - may not be consumed during College hours or at any gathering that could be construed as a Church or School of Pastoral Care & Counselling event. Consumption of alcohol is a matter of personal conscience, however intoxication with alcohol at any time constitutes grounds for disciplinary action.
Property - Students will at all times respect the property of the Ministry Training College and CCC Oxford Falls. This includes not resting feet on seats or climbing over them. Food and drink, other than water is prohibited at all times in lecture rooms and auditoriums.
Dress - Members of both sexes are required to dress modestly. A smart standard of dress is required and the College staff reserves the right to decide what is appropriate.
Relationships - The student attends Ministry Training College with the goal of seeking and growing in God. Consequently the college encourages students to refrain from entering into any new romantic relationships during the course of the first year. Any new relationships must be immediately notified to your pastor and the PCC Principal. Existing relationships are required to be maintained at a Godly level under Pastoral care so as not to hinder the student’s progress in God. Relationships conducted during the second year of study should also be maintained at a Godly level under Pastoral care so as not hinder student progress.”
September 19th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Phil Baker’s New Church Network (Baker’s hostile takeover bid for ‘contemporary evangelical’ churches..without the knowledge or consent of the congregations) has prompted some more thoughts on my part.
After all my huffing and puffing on this….what if it goes ahead anyway?
Won’t I have egg on my face?
Won’t I be like a warship that was big enough to be detected by enemy radar?
Wouldn’t it be better if I were to influence society, one life, one family, one community at a time?
I mean….just because something is doable…doesn’t mean we need to do it.
Perhaps we should not be overly enamoured with national media….and work more by stealth.
Maybe I’m coming at this from presupposition…and sadly….personal baggage.
So anyone using my logo and/or references on their stationery, publications or building are encouraged to remove them at their earliest convenience.
Yours sincerely,
Lance (the enemy radar).
September 19th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
“Any new relationships must be immediately notified to your pastor and the PCC Principal.”
Because?????
I think post 22 is the scariest thing I’ve yet read on Signposts (no mean feat!) Sorry, but when a church organisation starts attempting the level of control over individuals in these guidelines, it’s starting to sound awfully like a cult.
September 19th, 2006 at 9:50 pm
2000 years ago…a series of widely circulated letters from church figures to other church leaders about the saviour of the world, Jesus Christ, changed the course of history..and the lives of billions of people.
Today, we have another widely circulated letter from a church figure to church leaders.
Who knows how it will change people’s lives…2000 years from now?
Behold, Phil’s Letter To The Australians…….(hat-tip to the back of a truck).
“Dear Pastor,
Greetings from Perth. I am writing to give you an official update of the journey of Australian Christian Churches and the New Church Network. As many of you know, ACC, the organisation that represents around 1500 churches, has been examining its purpose and structure. Over the last year and I have been quite keen to see ACC expand across the body of Christ so it would capture all Churches that would fit the contemporary evangelical genre. As a result of these discussions we had overwhelming support and it seemed that the organisation would morph into what we were loosely calling the New Church Network, with up to 3000 churches involved.
We also had to think seriously about the ‘why’ behind all this. The primary purpose was to be a voice in the media, not on specific political issues but rather to let people know that the prominent mainline denominations were not the only alternatives in the ecclesiastical world and there is a whole new family of churches from a wide range of denominations who are doing church in a new way.
As a deadline on a decision on all this drew closer I began to feel more and more uneasy, which led to me feeling uneasy about the fact that I was feeling uneasy! I talked to many others and spent quite a bit of time thinking and in prayer and slowly was able, I believe, to put my finger on what was wrong and why that which we had planned may not in the end be the best course of action.
In short, the attempt to develop an organisation, which would get us above the media radar, could be likened a little bit to developing a war ship that was big enough to show up on enemy radar! We all understand that the media as a whole don’t really understand the church, not just because they are not asking the questions but also because of presupposition and often sadly personal baggage. Good positive stories on the church are few are far between. Those that are not, are all too often filled with misinformation, bias or from angles that had been decided upon before anybody was even interviewed.
I began to think that maybe the best course of action for the church is to work more by stealth to influence society, one life, one family and one community at a time. That we should not be overly enamoured with national media. As I voiced these concerns more and more leaders concurred. So I found myself in, to use Paul’s wonderful phrase, ‘a strait betwixt two’: on the one hand championing an organisation that would gain a better public voice for the church and, on the other, having concerns that such a cause was wrong headed.
I realised that we have a wonderful unity in our country. The success of the 500Plus Conferences is a good example of this where churches from across the streams gather to learn, to input and to help one another. This is happening on many levels and I believe we don’t actually need another organisation unless that organisation has a compelling purpose. Thus the compelling purpose for New Church Network and, in turn, for Australian Christian Churches was one that many of us were having serious reservations about.
So I thought the best I could do was to share openly and honestly with the leaders of the various denominations and the Board of Australian Christian Churches about how I was feeling. We stand at a point in history where we could form an organisation representing some 3000 churches. However just because something is doable doesn’t mean to say we need to do it.
The leaders of the Australian Pentecostal Movements, after I shared this, all agreed, as did the Board of the Australian Christian Churches. Thus the wisest course of action was to continue to encourage relational and organic connections between all our churches but not to attempt to build and drive an organisation that is trying to represent us all. Thus we are officially closing the door on the concept of the New Church Network and officially disbanding the organisation Australian Christian Churches.
I encourage you, if you have any concerns at all, to contact your denominational leadership as they have been involved with the process or feel free to drop me a line. As I have said in the various meetings, I feel like I have some egg on my face as the fire that I was stoking I am now suggesting we put out. Of course we are doing so with the agreement of the leaders involved. I guess we are trying to make sure we are not being carried away by what we can do but wisely doing what God has called us to do.
Finally, from a pragmatic point of view, the following action steps are being taken in winding down ACC:
§ Website (www.australianchristianchurches.com) has been closed
§ Churches using ACC logo and/or references on their stationery, publications, or building are encouraged to remove them at their earliest convenience
Yours sincerely,
Phil Baker
President of Australian Christian Churches
PO Box 524
Victoria Park WA 6979″
September 20th, 2006 at 4:43 pm
That sounds like some solid thought is finally going into the direction and behaviour of the Contemporary Church.
Why would a Church want to be linked with the Joyce Meyers, Peter Popoff’s, Marjoe Gortner types.
Now they just need a good clean up of theology and financials…
October 2nd, 2006 at 12:37 am
[…] In the great tradition of pop eating itself, a church in Augusta Georgia has moved beyond ther current trend of Christian moneymaking from poor theology, and created a way to make money from the process of making money for Jeebus. […]
October 2nd, 2006 at 2:16 am
More from the Neuromesh trackback.
Behold, the ‘giving kiosk’.
http://www.nbc26news.com/video/4259281.html
“You can just punch in right on the screen what you want to give and it’s just a matter of seconds and you’re done,” Sharon Davis said.
“It’s yet another way we can give back to god by using our debt card,” Oates said.
“We really feel like technology can be a tool that’ll help communicate the message to the people in this culture that they matter to god,” Pastor Marty Baker said.
And that message, delivered by the “giving kiosk’s” brainchild, Pastor Marty Baker, has had a major impact on the church’s contributions.
“Last year we took in over 100-thousand dollars on the kiosk and this year it’s increased and we’re expecting 200 thousand dollars,” Baker said.”
October 2nd, 2006 at 3:07 pm
Everybody Say “10%” (”10%”)
Christian City Church
Oxford Falls
Sunday 1 October 2006
10am service
Pastors Phil Pringle and Pat Mesiti
http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/01100610am.rm
“(Phil Pringle) ….So now we’re going to receive our tithes and offerings ….so I want you to get ready to give.. this morning…and if you need an envelope because you use a credit card for giving.. just raise your hand ..otherwise on a newsletter, there’s a tear off strip…you can fill out your details on that.
We have an EFTPOS machine up the back…of if you’re on the internet you can give through the web page there.. up on the right hand side..you’ll find an area there for giving.
I’m going to ask Pat Mesiti just to come and share around the offering this morning. Amen. Give Pat a big hand would ya? (applause) In fact next Sunday morning, I’ve asked Pat to preach here, he’s going to preach about reaching the world. Amen. God bless ya.
(Pat Mesiti) Amen church. You love the Lord? Oh good …(inaudible) You love the Lord? (’Yeah’)
Jesus said an interesting thing in the bible. I’ll have to give you a little bit…what prompted that thought.
Little while ago I was talking to someone ..and they said…they said, ‘Pat, I’m a Christian.’
‘And so, well, how do you define if you are a Christian?’
And they said ‘well, you know, I kinda go to church.’
And I said, ‘well that’s really cool.’ But, people ..don’t read the bible say really dumb things. And you would agree with that.
Jesus said this, that if you love me, do what I say.
Obedience is really the sign that we are lovers of Jesus. Can I get an ‘Amen’?
How many of you are married? Raise your hands.
How many of you husbands have learned to obey your wife? (laughter)
We Italians have got it figured out. we say ‘the man is the head, but the woman is the neck that turns him around’. (laughter)
In Malachi Chapter 3, come with me to this awesome passage of scripture.
Pastor Phil is a modern day revivalist, would you agree with that?
I really believe that….can we give our pastor a hand, he’s a modern day revivalist. (applause)
And one of the keys to the outpouring of heaven ….we’ve had a lot about prayer ..and today we’re gonna hear about something else and next Sunday I want to really share about getting the salt out of a shaker and making a difference in our world..and can you please bring friends.
I want to see people saved.
But here in Malachi Chapter 3…it shows us this incredible insight into opening up the windows of Heaven.
Not just prayer and telling people and acts of mercy, but God right here says this…he says ‘will a man rob God?’
Now the first thing is ..how do you take away from God?
It isn’t that we go to God ..and take that…because in actual fact, God really enjoys it when you take something of Him into your world.
When you take grace from His throne ..into your world…God enjoys it… can I get an Amen? (’Amen’)
But here’s the concept…if you look at the Hebrew scripture …it is a picture of a goblet with a lid on it. And the way we rob God is we put a restriction on what God loves to do. Which is what? Blessing.
And it says, ‘will a man restrict, will a man block God.’
Here you say, how have you robbed me? And God says ‘in tithes and offerings’.
And then He says this, ‘Bring all the tithes into the storehouse.’
Everybody say ‘all the tithes’ (’all the tithes’)
Everybody say ‘all the tithes’ (’all the tithes’)
What is a tithe? Let me explain. The tithe…is 10 per cent.
Everybody say ‘10 per cent’ (’10 per cent’).
10 per cent.
God says, ‘Bring me what’s mine …bring me that 10 per cent.’
If you’re in a business deal…and someone said to you, ‘you know what….I’m going to let you keep 90 per cent, just give me 10, how many of you think that would be a great business deal?
And God says ‘10 per cent’.
Now some people might say, ‘yeah, that’s Old Testament that’s under law.’
Oh, no, no, no, no.
This is pre-law, this is under the Malchizadek priesthood, who is a type of Jesus.
We are bringing out tithes, the bible says, unto Jesus.
10 per cent. Now why 10 per cent?
You see, if God set an amount, it would not be fair, correct? It wouldn’t be fair if God said ‘bring a thousand dollars to the storehouse every week.’ It wouldn’t be fair.
But God is a God who is a just and righteous God.
He said, ‘bring a percentage’, so that the person who’s earning a thousand dollars a week or a hundred thousand dollars a week …I had a gentleman in Malaysia one day say to me this…he said ‘if I bring my tithe to the church every week’ …he said (inaudible) …he said ‘I’d have to be bringing ten thousand dollars a week into the tithe’.
And I said ‘would you like me to pray that you only have to give a hundred dollars a week’? (laughter)
It’s all relevant. Say ‘Amen or ouch’.
See, and here it is, it’s not my tithe, language is so important, it’s His tithe, and the tithe, literally is a sign that God is really Lord and master over all. That is the symbol of the tithe.
Three things it does to you, it brings you protection.
Second thing it does, it opens up the windows of Heaven.
Listen to what it says here. Look at this church.
‘If I will not open up for you the windows of Heaven and pour out for you such a blessing, there will not be room enough to receive it.’
You know as I was driving to church this morning, I always try and prepare my spirit for the offering message, just in case.
I always say honestly every Sunday when I’m in church …I always do ..because…I know Pastor Phil.
But you know I was just preparing my heart, and I said, ‘Lord, if I were to do the offering this morning, what could I say that would encourage people?
And here’s what I believe the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit about.
“Tell my people, I don’t understand the concept of ‘just enough’.”
God doesn’t get that concept …because wherever God does a miracle…listen to me church, the loaves and the fishes, there’ll be 12 baskets left over…for everybody.
When he taught out from the widow’s miracle ..of the widow’s oil …there..they filled the jars ..and there was so much there…she could have kept pouring today if she was alive. What an amazing thing.
When God does it, He’s a God of more than enough, his name is El Shaddai, the God of plenty, not El Cheapo, the Lord, the Tightwad. (laughter)
How many of you thank God for that?
And I want us to understand that this morning.
Let’s bring all the tithes, not half of it, a quarter of it, all the tithes ..and God says ‘I’ll pour open Heaven’
‘I don’t understand the concept of just…..I wanna pour out abundance.’
But don’t restrict Him.
Father, we thank you for our ability to be able to give to you. I thank you for this House, I thank you for what you’re doing. I thank this House, your building, we’re working with you.
Lord I ask you to bless every tither, every obedient tither …as they bring your store out of every offering, in Jesus’ name.
If you need an envelope this morning, please raise your hand.
If you want to give by credit card, at the back of the room there is an EFTPOS machine there, if you’d like to give through EFTPOS machine.
If you’re writing out a cheque, please make it payable to Christian City Church.
God bless you church as you give.”
Length of offering sermon..7:05min
October 2nd, 2006 at 4:43 pm
Someone really needs to send every pastor at CCC and the AOG a link to Russell Kelly’s e’book!