The Official Handbook “How to Fleece For Fun & Profit”
In the tradition of “Amway and the Contemporary Church”
Comes the “Official Handbook of How to Fleece the Flock for Fun and Profit”
©2002 OAIM
Lionfish’s Hot Picks:
”If anyone challenges you as a prophet of God, remind them of the verse that says “touch not the anointed of God” and of the consequences of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
”Discourage the flock from reading the Bible for themselves. Remind them often of how the Holy Spirit spoke to you and this reduces the need for study of the Bible because you have knowledge that supercedes the Bible. Don’t forget to inject a verse here and there so they will be convinced that this is from God. Choose obscure verses so the flock doesn’t realize that they have nothing to do with what you are saying. …
If any of the flock attempts to read the bible on their own, make sure you direct them to your interpretation of the scriptures by showing them what it “really” means”.
”The most annoying people are those who keep insisting on sound doctrine and one must guard against this attack at all cost. Your income and reputation are at stake on this one. However, this can be easily overcome through the buzzwords of “Can’t we all just get along? We all love the same Jesus”. Convince the flock that doctrine is divisive and that to love the Lord is all that matters. This works well because they then are the ones labeled as divisive and it questions their spirituality. When this is accomplished, it makes it easy to dismiss what they are saying”.
”Emotionalism is essential for a flock-fleecing ministry. Mimic the most successful fleecers and practice this often until you have it down pat”.
”For a ministry to thrive, money must regularly be fleeced from the flock. Don’t take all of the money at once because it would drain the well dry, and you must be careful to spread it out over a very long time in order to raise your own income”.
“Remember that the corrupt nature of man is to seek after fame and fortune for themselves at the exclusion of others. You can be assured of a following as long as you continue to offer them the possibility of riches and power. Keeping this in mind, continue to appeal to the corrupt nature of man and spiritualize it by suggesting that the things they desire are the same things that God desires for them. Often repeat the phrases such as: “God desires for you to be rich, healthy and happy above everything else.” Avoid people who claim that spiritual maturity is more important in God’s eyes than financial success. Keep your flock from these types. They can be very devastating to your ministry”.
June 26th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Warren
I would hope that is not the point.
Church or whatever passes for church for me in the main is for believers.
I certainly wouldn’y say that unbelievers should be excluded, but I think we get our collective knickers in a twist by trying make church into too much.
You can’t really worship God if you don’t belieive in Him. Comes down to a simple question. Is the purpose of meeting together to worship God or to proselytise?
All I think the writer you refer to above is saying at this point is that watering down the worship in the name of evangelism is actually counter-productive on both counts. Remains to be seen what else he comes up with.
Cheers
MN
June 26th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Ok Mn, I could be taking things out of context, but I think it is part of a general trend which could be termed “seeker-insensitive” or esoteric. This blog seems to demand accountability for the pentes (mainly about $ but also on doctrine) but not for other parts of the church. I just think it should be balanced.
June 26th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Fair enough.
For mine though I am more interested in how the everyday Joe puts their best forward for Christ. That is where I struggle - not so much with the “what is Sunday church” for.
And again the perspective which I have is that the church is primarily for believers.
Clearly a real issue is what happens in “church” to the extent that the activities and spirit within those four walls at that time are, or are not reflective of Christ - the money and worship stuff etc
But aside from that how do you see church as opposed to what happens outside church?
Where do you see the biggest impact in terms of potential to present or live Christ to unbelievers?
Cheers
MN
June 26th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
I hope you don’t mind me jumping in here.
I really don’t see any difference at all presently between what occurs inside and outside of church walls.
Church has become very club like, the church club, difficult to break in, demanding conformity to the club ‘rules’ and ‘conditions’.
Where do you see the biggest impact in terms of potential to present or live Christ to unbelievers?
“By this shall all men know you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you”
Jesus gave us the strategic plan…..presently in the clubs there is little love one for another. We have collectively lost the plot.
June 26th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Daisy
that’s to the point!
Conversations I have with people over the years indicate that one of the issues almost everyone I know struggles with is how to talk about Jesus to people, whether it be work mates, neighbours, family whoever…
If we find it so difficult to talk then the plan outlined above is clearly the way to go. Probably why it is there, apart from this is the reality we should be living out of anyway.
At the end of the day, the idea is to honour God in what you do where you are, and hope that God provides some people to talk to about the issues that concern you, and vice versa.
Cheers
MN
June 26th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Also an interesting issue is the tension having the need to live out our faith with others v. being individually accountable to God. We need others - that is the way God made us - and we hurt etc when we get let down, ultimately it is not about what others do no matter how bad it is. It is about what how I respond to God and live out of that - God knows I have enough trouble with that.
When does hurting from the damage done by others morph into pointless whinging morph into constructive action morph into more damaging action perpetrated by the first “victim”?
Cheers
MN
June 27th, 2007 at 9:12 am
When does hurting from the damage done by others morph into pointless whinging- depends whinging can be very purposeful and can also be part of the healing process particularly when people have been damaged in ‘dont speak, dont feel’ faith communities, people will keep ‘whinging’ until they feel they have been heard, which is why I am a great advocate of truth and reconciliation commissions and believe churches could benefit from adopting this kind of process for ex-members with geniune concerns.
Whinging becomes pointless when their is no resolution for people, this is where recovery services come into their own, some people need professional counselling to recover.
morph into constructive action
when church leadership take responsibility for injustices and hurts and actively become part of the strategy (love one another) to be active participants in people healing, not agents of blame and further injustice.
morph into more damaging action perpetrated by the first victim
Not quite sure what you mean by this, but if people have been victimised then the perpetrators should not be imune from facing accountability and/or criminal and court proceedings if the injustices have been criminal or negligent. If individuals do not wish to involve the justice system, then the truth and reconcilation model would provide a way forward for both the injured and the ones who injured or their representatives.
Churches have been washing their hands pontius pilot style for far to long.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Good response Daisy.
I’m a serial whinger myself - for both good and bad ends. I have also been hurt at the hands of “the church”, and hurt others - not proud of the latter.
I understand there is a point at which people are hurt and it is either impossible or difficult for them to do anything useful until they deal with those issues as they directly affect them and in their relationship with God.
I’m also acutely aware it is easy to hang on to being a victim, because that requires nothing of us, and everything of others.
I’m also aware that I move in and out of both these different states and also the different mindsets about dealing with them.
I’m enjoying the HS thread at the moment simply because there is a positive moving forward tone at the moment which goes beyond “being hurt” - and I am not in any way diminishing the legitimate and genuine pain that people are in - to moving forward and doing something positive to address the issues, and calling people to a to a place that is closer to God and Jesus - I pray He is in this and helps them thru.
As for what I’m getting at it is less about individuals moving on than seeking justice - not to say that there aren’t times where “justice” might be appropriate - again I don’t come out of the environment that many of you have.
Cheers
MN
June 27th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Correction…
As for what I’m getting at it is more about individuals moving on and less about seeking justice - not to say that there aren’t times where “justice” might be appropriate - again I don’t come out of the environment that many of you have.
July 5th, 2007 at 3:09 am
“Joyce Meyer is one of the world’s leading practical Bible teachers. A “New York Times” bestselling author, she has written more than 70 inspirational books including “The Confident Woman,” Look Great, Feel Great” and the entire “Battlefield of the Mind” family of books.
Meyer’s “Enjoying Everyday Life” radio and television programs are broadcast around the world and she travels extensively conducting conferences. For her first fictional novel, Meyer has teamed with Deborah Bedford to write “The Penny.”
What: Meyer signs her first fictional novel, “The Penny.”
When: Friday, June 15 at 12 p.m.
Where: Borders 43075 Crescent Blvd Novi, MI 48375 (248) 347-0780
Why: Fans have the opportunity to personally meet Meyer as she signs copies of “The Penny.” Borders is excited to welcome Meyer to the Novi store.
Additional Information:
To ensure she is able to meet as many customers as possible, Meyer will be unable to personalize her signature. No posed photographs may be taken during the book signing. No memorabilia, videos or DVDs will be signed. Cameras and cell phones must be turned off and put away as customers approach the signing table. Copies of “The Penny” are available for purchase at Borders stores.
Beginning Friday, June 15 at 8 a.m. tickets will be given out to customers who would like to get copies of “The Penny” signed. These tickets will be given out on a first come, first served basis and will hold each person’s place in line. Line tickets will be color coded and the line will be organized by colors. Announcements will be made when we begin to line up each group. Borders cannot guarantee that all customers with line tickets will have the opportunity to meet Meyer and obtain an autograph.
To receive a ticket, customers must present a copy of Meyer’s “The Penny” — with proof of purchase — to the store on the day of the event.”
From http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,121939.shtml
July 10th, 2007 at 6:41 am
Pages from Teen Mania’s tax return, for the year ending August 2004
http://www.acquiretheevidence.com/articles/salary-compare.html
July 16th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Christine Pringle
Christian Shitty Church, Oxford Falls
Sunday July 15, 2007
10am service
http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/15070710am.rm
“……..I just wanted to ..kind of…give you a little bit …of background as to why I’m speaking on this topic today.
I’ve called this message ‘In My Father’s House’
And it kind of came out of a ..kind of experience I had …I won’t go into the fine details ..but an experience I had on Monday evening in the spa with my husband Phil.
That sounds exciting!
We have this spa..it’s actually a funny story about this spa..and it’s kind of like..I love…this is what I love kind of about the Lord. Like sometimes you think you’re preparing a place for somebody else..but it’s actually for you.
And many years ago ..when Phil’s dad was just…after his wife Betty died ..we were..in negotiations with Dave Pringle to come over and live with us.
And in fact ..it was one of the reasons why we bought our place in Bayview because it’s got..a few levels.
And we had this great idea that we would buy this spa for granddad..so he could sit in it and just cook away…you know…as you do…and he eased his tired old limbs.
And..God rest in peace Dave…he died after we put it in….he never actually got to sit in it.
So we have this tradition…when we are together …when we’re in the same place..in the same time… like because it’s a Monday night….because it’s our day off.
Unless it’s absolutely bucketing with rain …we even get in this spa…even when it’s raining…because it’s kind of got the big ferny things …it’s out open…it hasn’t got a thing on it.
Anyway…that’s got absolutely nothing……I know you’re all having terrible images of Phil and I bubbling in this spa right now..but just put that aside for a moment…just go to a happy place of…..it’s been a happy place many times for us so………where there are no interruptions from emails or mobile phones are not allowed. There are things banned from that spa area except a cheese platter…mineral water and a good old glass of wine…just one because you can’t have too many in the spa then you can’t remember what you’re talking about.
But anyway..on Monday ..last Monday…we went down to the spa..and we’re talking ….and actually..it’s a great place to get…..where I get Phil trapped.
He’s trapped in this little area ..and he loves it..and it’s soothing his you know…stiff muscles and everything because you know ..he goes to the gym and he’s just a legend..and he like…pumps iron and everything and then he can hardly walk. He’s no use to me at all.
Whoever that trainer is…thanks for nothing.
He’s looking great by I’m not getting any ……satisfaction………”
July 16th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
That was inspirational.. thanks for copying that Lance.
July 16th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Ok…..so like, what is? you know….Chris talking about?
She sounds like quite a normal sweet person and a terrific daughter in law.. but what was she talking about?…..
Too many traditional church sermons for me these days…. obviously.
July 16th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
She’s like talking about things like… changing the conversation… like sometimes like I do, but not like always praise Jesus! *Cheer from the crowd*
And bananas are pretty good too! Amen? *Amen*
July 17th, 2007 at 9:47 am
What i love in that in such a short, & otherwise vague, space. Chris has managed to regail us with so much imagery of the Pringle affluence. As spaced out as she seems, i doubt that this was a mistake.
We learnt that that they have a split-level home with guest bedrooms in Bayview (location, location). We learnt that they had a spa. We leant that they could afford to fly an old man into the country & pay for his new life. We learnt that Phil has a personal trainer. That they drink only bottled water. And that they actually have things like cheese-platters.
All this & not one mention of genuinely tying it into scripture.
Heh heh, for those who don’t know here is Societal Structure North Shore 101. In the Northern & Eastern suburbs of Sydney there is old money & new money. Old money considers new money vulgar johnny-come-latelies who don’t know how to comfortably wear their wealth. The one thing you don’t do is shamelessly list your assets for all to hear. It’s considered particularly poor form.
They haven’t “arrived” yet because their kids are only first generation wealth with all the vulgar, inexperienced arrogance that goes with it.
Take comfort, the Houstons & the Pringles of this world are aspirationals, too. There are social classes that exist above them.
Wealth generated from the 80’s is very new news & lacks substance or style.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:23 am
In this particular instance, I must say this is totally not true about their home and the situation with Phil’s father. It is not a mansion, it’s just a nice home in a quiet street. I won’t go into further details, privacy is an issue here. Rest assured, I know the facts. I’m not defending the ministry, simply sticking to the truth. None of us are in a position to attack people in their care and concern for an beautiful old man in his final years.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Brian keeping it real in his latest book :
” .. this book suggests that the relativists are right in their denunciation of absolutism. It also affirms that absolutists are right in their denunciation of relativism. And then it suggests that they are both wrong because the answer lies beyond both absolutism and relativism.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:58 am
wt, I think I’ve gone cross-eyed.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Teddy, i think you’ve misunderstood me,
The care of the elderly was the only redeeming thing in there, it was the rest i’m condemning - the bleating about the where & what of what they own.
Secondly, there are other people here whom have been to the Pringle’s home over the years, myself included at their old address about 15 years ago when i was a member of CCC & a Bible College student . Point being, you are not our only direct insight in to the personal life of the Pringles.
You may wish to tone down on the holier-than-thou defender of privacy thing, we’re not animals, we are christians after all.
;O)
July 17th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Sorry if that was a bit harsh.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Reve can tell you about the opulent way that the Footscray Jensens live, although we did move into a smaller house with no backyard since he visited.
rev
July 17th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Perfect example of the opposite of the Mega-Church family.
The Jensens live almost completely by faith & their home furnishings are completely unpretenscious.
They rent as opposed to own & rely on the kindness of strangers, & strangers rely on theirs. Offered a manse connected to the church where they conduct their service, they instead made it available to refugees who were more in need.
The Rev does not even drive let alone posess a late-model-car. Their home is constantly open to people who are poor in spirit or in dollar to stop & rest & feed.
They would acquire a property with it’s usefulness to the disadvantaged in mind.
They’re living it, not playing at it.
Who they are in church is who they are at home. They see no difference. They’re the real thing.
No spas. Just love.
July 17th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Wow Reve never been accused of being holier-than-thou before! The privacy thing was my own, not the Pringles. What year were you at college? Perhaps we have met, maybe even at the old house!!
July 17th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Mid nineties. So you’re similar age to me then? Early thirties?
July 17th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Hmmmm…
House with a spa? Tick (not at the moment, but in a prior house…it was put in there for my housemate who needed it for health reasons)
Bottled water? Occasionally…usually when the bottle on my desk starts to look festy and I need a new one.
Can afford to fly? Tick. Usually for work. Often paid for out of my own pocket…which is deep due to a lucrative PhD scholarship (not).
Personal trainer? ROFLMAO! I do, however, have a pretty expensive bike. :drool:
Cheese platters? Most definitely!! Less so now I’m in Canberra, but they were a regular feature when I was in Melbourne, thanks to the insanely cheap cheese at the Vic Market and living in a very sociable house.
I don’t know enough about how the Pringles live to cast judgment. I do know that I have friends who have a lot, and friends who have very little, and the amount they have is no indicator of generosity. I know people who can quite easily justify their big houses in nice suburbs because those houses are constantly full of people who are refugees and asylum seekers, or people on spiritual retreats. A big house is not an inherently bad thing, it’s what you do with it that matters. If spas, bottled water, flying, and cheese platters are what you base your calls about a person’s values and spirituality on, then I’m probably screwed.
I’m more interested in the fact that this “sermon” or whatever she calls it is nonsensical, ditsy rubbish.
July 17th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Reve, I wish!! Put me in an older category.
Bec, I deliberately didn’t go to the am service but after Lance’s comments watched on the internet. Knew I shouldn’t, it just made me mad. It amazes me when Scripture is taken out of context. I thought Jesus was preparing a “mansion” not a “room”. Add a little emotion and many would be convinced the Spirit is moving. It’s so frustrating, if you want to hear from God, read your Bible (but not the Message)!!!
July 17th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
I’m with Teddy on this one. Casa del Pringle is a modest house in Bayview. It has “guest rooms” because, as most people their age, they are experiencing empty nest syndrome. I think reve is misplacing some of his evil glee here. A little too haughty Reve. The Pringle home often hosts many visitors and people from overseas. A senior pastor’s house if ever I saw one. There’s always people staying there. Something to consider when looking into Phil pringles supposed wealth is that he is quite an accomplished artist. I don’t care if you like his type of art/painting or not but he sells a lot of them, particularly overseas.
July 17th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Teddy!
So you’re obviously still attending? Do you hold any position in the church? Generically describe (i know its difficult here).
If you’re in your forties & have been there that long you must be firmly entrenched. What changes have you witnessed?
On another thread tou mentioned stirrings going on there. Im not a complete cynic. Can you elaborate?
July 17th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
“None of us are in a position to attack people in their care and concern for an beautiful old man in his final years.”
I didn’t put it in the transcript…but Christine Pringle was laughing and giggling almost uncontrollably as she was talking about the death of her father-in-law.
Feel free to stare in disbelief at the video.
http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/15070710am.rm