The Official Handbook “How to Fleece For Fun & Profit”
In the tradition of “Amway and the Contemporary Church”
Comes the “Official Handbook of How to Fleece the Flock for Fun and Profit”
©2002 OAIM
Lionfish’s Hot Picks:
”If anyone challenges you as a prophet of God, remind them of the verse that says “touch not the anointed of God” and of the consequences of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
”Discourage the flock from reading the Bible for themselves. Remind them often of how the Holy Spirit spoke to you and this reduces the need for study of the Bible because you have knowledge that supercedes the Bible. Don’t forget to inject a verse here and there so they will be convinced that this is from God. Choose obscure verses so the flock doesn’t realize that they have nothing to do with what you are saying. …
If any of the flock attempts to read the bible on their own, make sure you direct them to your interpretation of the scriptures by showing them what it “really” means”.
”The most annoying people are those who keep insisting on sound doctrine and one must guard against this attack at all cost. Your income and reputation are at stake on this one. However, this can be easily overcome through the buzzwords of “Can’t we all just get along? We all love the same Jesus”. Convince the flock that doctrine is divisive and that to love the Lord is all that matters. This works well because they then are the ones labeled as divisive and it questions their spirituality. When this is accomplished, it makes it easy to dismiss what they are saying”.
”Emotionalism is essential for a flock-fleecing ministry. Mimic the most successful fleecers and practice this often until you have it down pat”.
”For a ministry to thrive, money must regularly be fleeced from the flock. Don’t take all of the money at once because it would drain the well dry, and you must be careful to spread it out over a very long time in order to raise your own income”.
“Remember that the corrupt nature of man is to seek after fame and fortune for themselves at the exclusion of others. You can be assured of a following as long as you continue to offer them the possibility of riches and power. Keeping this in mind, continue to appeal to the corrupt nature of man and spiritualize it by suggesting that the things they desire are the same things that God desires for them. Often repeat the phrases such as: “God desires for you to be rich, healthy and happy above everything else.” Avoid people who claim that spiritual maturity is more important in God’s eyes than financial success. Keep your flock from these types. They can be very devastating to your ministry”.
July 17th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Reve’s evil glee!
I am laughing so hard. Is that really how i seem?
;oD
July 17th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
also, there are at least 4 cell/connect groups at CCC that I know of that are lead by professional fitness trainers. They offer free “personal training” as a way of connecting to others outside the church community. It’s hardy a big deal.
July 17th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Turtle, commercial success is not an indicator of talent in an environment where people buy music because its from their church. Wouldn’t they buy paintings for trhe same reason?
When i was there, my house-group leader (as it was called back then) used to make his tithes & offerings via cheque so the counters could see where it was coming from. I’m sure people pay by Eftpos & Credit for the same reason, too.
It’s about social climbing & recognition. As for people outside the church, Phil often gives painting away to other public figures as a status thing when it’s up in the loungerooms (Joyce Meyer). If you know otherwise, show me the receipts.
Turtle, tell us about yourself. Evil Glee Reve wants a picture profile in his mind. What’s your involvement & time spent in the church?
July 17th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Been there a long time Reve, different areas of ministry etc as is “expected” over the years. The last year has brought about some huge changes in our attitude towards the “pentecostal” mindset. “Experience” at the expense of the Bible/sound doctrine etc. Charismania or charismatic chaos. We’re looking at our bibles in church saying inwardly that’s not what it says/means as some lifestyle message is being preached - knowing there are others who feel the same way.
No doctrinal position taken on very much. No time for taking communion very often but weekly time alloted for advertising the latest self-help book from the pulpit or the next big must-see event.
Now I know you’ll say LEAVE but there is something stirring. My husband and I have been so shocked by what we are seeing after all these years, like scales falling off our eyes. (Read that somewhere!) Leaving for us is not the answer, not yet anyway. Watching and waiting, we can’t believe we are the only ones being challenged.
July 17th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
By the way, the whole tithe issue and its promotion is a big thing to us, we totally follow the free will offering as given in the New Testament. We know people bound up in legalism thinking they have to backpay tithes if they forget!! Ps. Phil has told the church that if you go on holidays the tithe is owed - where’s the scripture for that, Ps Phil!!
July 17th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Lot of honesty there, Teddy. I respect your struggle & admire you’re not taking the easy option.
In your time there, have you ever noticed anything about the way CCC treats gay people who are members - indeed to your knowledge are there any “out” gay people who are regular attendants?
(sorry about the abrupt subject change)
July 17th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Would you have been involved in MTC around 1995? Or which ministry would you have ben involved in at that time?
July 17th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I’ve been told there are gay people there, never had anyone speak against them. Have a friend who was gay now married, great kids wife etc. Quite a testimony there but that’s his journey to share. We are going “out” with someone tonight in leadership, I’ll ask some questions and I know I will get “straight” answers. Sorry, just being cheeky - why the subject change?
July 17th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Because you bore me.
No, just something that popped into my head. Tourette’s - sorry.
So where do CCC people “go out” on the northern beaches? What are the CCC “hang-outs”. I know that Gloria Jeans Narabeen is the hang of choice for the youth - where do the grown-ups go?
What’s the culture these days?
July 17th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Keep guessing - furthur back. The year Jordan Reizes got kicked out of class, we were all shocked, he was a favourite pupil. Mind you, he was back the next day. I’ve never seen Simon Mcintyre so angry.
July 17th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Don’t think i knew Jordan, what did he do to raise McIntyre’s heat? Why was he golden boy, anyway? Was he a PK?
Were you or your husband on teaching staff? Give me a clue to your ID that only someone present around that time would know.
Answer this, do you sit in the front two rows (centre) of a sunday night (a true indicator of status)
July 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Grown-up ordinary folks taking some family out for birthday dinner to a nice Italian restaurant in North Sydney. Some trusted friends from church that you can open your heart to, come home for a good meal.
July 17th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Everyone please say a prayer today for the people still trapped in penty cults.
I wonder if I ring the terror hotline then they’ll send the boys around to infiltrate the New Zealand pastors’ plot to make Australia (more) stupid?
July 17th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
No, Jordan married a girl who was boarding with the McIntyres. They were dating at college. He’s not a PK but he was a bright guy always cheeky, just went too far with Simon one day.
Not on teaching staff, and we don’t do Sunday nights anymore except on special occasions.
By the way, second row is definately not an indicator of status, only an indicator of someone getting there early.
July 17th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
He tore strips off the guy for marying his boarder & dating her beforehand? Am i missing something? He went too far in what way?
Front two rows mean nothing? Next you’ll be telling me that the youth/MTC/ Creative Arts College dont sit front left of the auditorium & that Jeff Crabtree dosen’t still think it’s trendy-creative to be on stage bare-foot.
Or that Fregus McIntyre is not still the resident prophet or that Simon McIntyre doesn’t still xconstantly work in the All Blacks (allegedly) superior footballing shills into his “sermons”.
July 17th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Just answering some of your questions. Simon got annoyed with Jordan for stepping over the line during class. They were mates away from college, but as principal Simon was owed certain respect. It was so long ago I can’t remember the details, just the shock of us all sitting there quietly after Jordan got turfed out. He apologised to Simon in front of us the next day. It was the right thing for Jordan to do. He wasn’t made to apologise either.
Jeff Crabtree is now into the latest anti-establishment t-shirt i.e. “I Don’t Do Nice”.
Not into prophecies. Too many people’s lives screwed up by someone supposedly hearing from God - give me a break! As I said before if you want to hear from God read your Bible.
The pendulum has swung so far in the other direction for me that I’m still reeling.
July 17th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
You want “owed certain respect”?
We had to stand whenever PP entered a room during Bible College.
And you’re right about prophecies - not one i ever heard while at CCC ever came true. Especially if it was about revival.
Speaking of revival, how come no-one talks about the Toronto Blessing & RHB’s visit anymore?
;o)
Leaving work now - will check this later…
July 17th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
Someone was saying just yesterday how the “Toronto Blessing” caused some huge problems with staff at a school with chicken cackling behaviour. Show me the Scripture please!!
Good quote - “True revival isn’t people saying “we’ve arrived spiritually”. It’s people being broken over the sense they have NOT arrived. So if you wonder whether current trends in Christianity mark a genuine revival, ask yourself, ” does it mark itself by an overwhelming sense of the holiness of God, a comprehensive sense of the depth of sin, a spiritual experience that results in brokeness rather than self-congratulation?”
“That’s the stuff of true revival. Because when you have in the church today this incessant talk about love, acceptance, tolerance, self-esteem and the presumption that God wants you healthy, wealthy and happy, then you are really at the very opposite pole from the elements of true revival”
July 17th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Hi Reve,
I’m pretty much in a similar boat to Teddy. (speaking of whom… that Jeff Crabtree t-shirt was on sunday night… were you there too????)
Been there for 10 years. Leaving is not an option for me either. I love a lot of the people there. I’d rather stay with them and be able to talk privately about the things that concern them/us than leave and see others walk blindly. CCC does do some things very well. Others, not so much.
The first two rows thing means nothing these days. Anyone can sit there except for where PP sits. But even that changes week to week. As for me and my house, I use my credit card to give because I get frequent flyer miles. How’s that for sacrificial giving!
I don’t know of any openly gay people at CCC. I don’t even know of any closet dwellers. I don’t actually know any gay people at all personally.
Anyway, didn’t Jordan Reiser end up becoming head of the rise and build program for a while? He’s the head of Adobe Asia Pacific I think.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:02 am
Am I wrong, or does a substantial portion what you’re doing here constitute either gossip or backbiting, or both? And over a less than two minute snippet of a message! You need help! Seriously!
CCC’ers would also so know that Chris Pringle is a very warm, outgoing person with a big heart, who is known to be flamboyant and sanguine at times, which adds to her ability to attract people pastorally. Get a life! Please!
July 18th, 2007 at 12:10 am
Hi Facelift,
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it differs from yours or you don’t like it.
I haven’t appreciated all you have had to say on this blog, but I don’t believe I told you to “get a life, please”……
July 18th, 2007 at 12:17 am
Yes, well, maybe that’s a bit strong, daisy, so I’ll apologise. However, I am amazed that people have opinions which so closely resemble gossip and backbiting.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:49 am
Why should you be surprised? My experience is that most people either think they are better than the next person, or they are not as bad as the next person. I fall into that trap, every body does. Basic sin nature 101- how to feel better about yourself in one easy lesson - find somebody else you can put down - preferably with a group of like minds or re-assurance and to add “substance” to the matter - whether that person deserves it or not is another question.
Backbiting or not though I read that extract and wondered what she was on about. The lady didn’t do herself any favours. If it was one of my pastors I would have I them a shovel to finish the job - I’m serious - done it before.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:51 am
Should read ‘offered them a shovel”.
July 18th, 2007 at 2:25 am
“I am amazed that people have opinions which so closely resemble gossip and backbiting.”
I hear you’ve been backbiting about the people at Signposts.
“CCC’ers would also so know that Chris Pringle is a very warm, outgoing person with a big heart, who is known to be flamboyant and sanguine at times, which adds to her ability to attract people pastorally. Get a life! Please!”
Then her gift is welcoming at the front door…not teaching from the stage that the senior pastor doesn’t root her enough.
July 18th, 2007 at 6:34 am
SLAM !….heh heh heh heh heh chuckle chuckle
She’s always been an airhead, and facelift you need to get a life !!!!!
humour ‘ar ‘ar
July 18th, 2007 at 9:33 am
In the interests of humbleness & to act on a conviction i experienced last night (& a dream where the interpertation is still unfolding), i wish to wind back on a few things i said yesterday.
I’ll admit that sometimes i get involved in “power struggles” (read: nit-picking, point-scoring arguments) with people from particular oerganisations & invariably afterwards feel convicted about feeling like i’ve gone too far or said things i didn’t really believe but put out there because i was in a certain zone.
For that reason, now being calm & of sound mind ;o) i wish to clarify the following & separate cetain unrelated isues:
1. I have met Chris Pringle, she is indeed a very warm, engaging & charming person & a brilliant host. I think, as my Signposts friend Smithus has said to me in the past, that sometimes people are placed in roles through different types pf pressure that dosen’t suit their personality. I’m not saying this is defintely the case with Chris, but it’s something to think about.
2. I don’t really “know” anything about who buys PP’s art work, whom he sells to & whom he makes gifts of it to. Most of that was just third-party hearsay. I have found that some of his work does something for me but i could’nt completely articulate it. I shouldn’t discount something just because i haven’t been able to categorise it yet.
3. No-one in pastoral “management” was ever actually rude to me when i was at CCC or at Bible college. The only unpleasant experiences i ever had were with ordinary parishioner plebs like myself. The assigned pastor i had was very attentive as was my new christians counsellor & house-group leaders. I was never instructed to leave CCC or college, i decided to because at the time i felt the services were fake & contrived & i was a little bored. It wasn’t even because i was gay because that issue hadn’t even come up with me at that stage so they never had a chance to deal with it.
July 18th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Added to this, i would like to say that i have had more dissapointing & depressing experiences with leaders from churches & organisations that claim to be progressive or grass-roots “real” than i ever had with churches that were labelled fundamentalist/pentecostal.
Go figure, but that’s the truth. My ramblings here against pentecostal churches have actually been more on behalf of other people whom have claimed to be hurt in some way, but i myself have never had any experience like this. CCC pastors were always kind to me.
Just telling my own truth, sorry if it contrasts dramatically with the impression i’ve given before.
July 18th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
onya Reve - that is well done.
July 18th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
Lance,
‘I hear you’ve been backbiting about the people at Signposts.’
Anything I’ve said about Signposts people has been to Signposts people, which doesn’t exactly constitute backbiting, apart from one observation on saint’s blog, which I owned up to in an earlier comment.
I appreciate Reve’s response and acknowledgement of Chris Pringle’s warm nature.
ifiknewthen, you have a strange sense of humour, and I don’t quite see where there is a ‘SLAM’ in Lance’s comment, which shows a depth of unmanly ignorance and disrespect towards a woman he is not addressing directly, but I’m glad you can chuckle about something, even if it is someone else’s rudeness.
I’m sure Chris Pringle has welcomed people at the door on many occasions. In fact I remember being in a queue, with my wife, outside a Conference Luncheon in a cold windy southern city, not knowing anyone, when she saw us and came up to us and made us very welcome. It was later when inside we realised it was Chris Pringle who had shown herself friendly and welcoming to strangers.