australian values
So does anyone else think that it is illogical that that migrants wishing to become Australian citizens should have to be able to speak English and answer questions on Australian values, history, culture etc while those of us that are born here become Australian citizens without applying, comprehending or even forming a wish to do so, at a time when we cannot speak any language and have no knowledge of Australian values, history and culture?
Talk about inconsistent!! It is just inviting people to devalue citizenship by foisting it on them unawares at the moment of their first breath, when frankly, they have more important things on their minds than the date that the First Fleet arrived.
September 19th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
For a start it reveals how holy he is.
I think you have mixed things up Greg.
There will be no separate laws between Australians and immigrants and business visa holders.
The only difference is the choice available to those people who wish to either work here or become citizens.
What is proposed facilitates smoother entry into Australian society.
September 19th, 2006 at 1:11 pm
re #28
Of course it’s common sense that it’s easier for people to live in a country if they speak the language, and we should make it as easy as possible for them to learn, but I have serious problems with legislating it. how fluent in english is good enough, and how do you test it? it all sounds a bit like the infamous dictation test of the White Australia policy years.
I have even more problems with this issue of Australian values. Do any of us seriously want a bunch of politicians legislating on what our national values should be? i can trace my Australian ancestry on my father’s side back to at least 1813 (and my mother’s side probably 150years+) but my values are not John Howard’s and he would probably call me un-Australian! besides, if anyone is seriously subversive, they can give lip-service to a values test (whatever that is) while continuing to believe something quite different
September 19th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
A joke that just came through to my email - just a joke so don;t crucify me Bec
IT WAS GOOD
In the beginning God created day and night. He created day for footy
matches, going to the beach and BBQ’s. He created night for going
prawning, sleeping and BBQ’s, and God saw that it was good.
On theSecond Day, God created water - for surfing, swimming and BBQ’s on the
beach, and God saw that it was good.
On the Third Day God created the Earth to bring forth plants - to provide malt and yeast for beer and wood for BBQs, and God saw that it was good.
On the Fourth Day God created animals and crustaceans for chops,
sausages, steak and prawns for BBQ’s, and God saw that it was good.
On the Fifth day God created a Bloke - to go to the footy, enjoy the beach,
drink the beer and eat the meat and prawns at BBQ’s, and God saw that it
was good.
On the Sixth Day God saw that the Bloke was lonely and needed
someone to go to the footy, surf, drink beer, eat and stand around the
barbie with. So God created Mates, and God saw that they were good
Blokes, and God saw that it was good.
On the Seventh Day God looked> around at the twinkling barbie fires, heard the hiss of opening beer cans and the raucous laughter of all the Blokes.
He smelled the aroma of grilled chops and sizzling prawns and God Saw that it was good … well
.. almost good.
He saw that the Blokes were too tired to clean up and needed a rest.
So God created Sheilas - to clean the house, to bear children, to wash, To cook and to clean the Barbie, and then God saw that it was not just good.
It was better than that, it was Bloody Awesome!
IT WAS AUSTRALIA !!!!!
September 19th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
Homer, what did you think of the amendments to the Marriage Act to confine marriage to a heterosexual couple?
September 19th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
Greg…I can’t stop laughing, and have forwarded it to half my colleagues, who also can’t stop laughing…
September 19th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Bec, I support it naturally ( pun unintended)
September 19th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Why, Homer?
I think you’re confusing what law you’re talking about. I would be quite happy for ALL Australians to live under God’s law, but given few Australians are Christians, I doubt whether this will be agreed to.
Of course, I apply this selectively.
September 19th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Bec, I am now unsure of what you are talking about.
Is it merely making marriage a heterosexual thing or is it something else?
September 19th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
somebody pllllleeeeeease help me!!
September 19th, 2006 at 4:27 pm
I think that Bec might be indicating that in the past you have argued that our laws should reflect Christian principles (as with marriage for a man and a woman) but in this situation you appear to be arguing that Christian principles should NOT guide our laws because we do not live in a Christian nation. Is this fair?
September 19th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
That’s what it looks like to the rest of us!!!
September 19th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
That’s definitely what I was suggesting.
It’s nice to know that I’m not loopy, and that there really is an inconsistency there.
September 20th, 2006 at 10:08 am
I am afraid you have not understood anything I have said.
The laws applying to Israel can be seen in lieu of Genesis 12:3.
There were no secular laws only God’s laws.
We are not Israel.
The proposed laws that will apply to Australia do not contradict biblical injunction.
Telling people they should be able to understnd english merely facilitates their asssimilation. Understanding Australian values does the same thing.
Please note those aliens read refugees had to accept the laws and mores of Israel!
September 20th, 2006 at 11:09 am
Homer,
I believe that these proposed laws do in fact contradict the biblical injunction.
I believe that Australia’s present laws, and these proposed laws, do anything but “welcome the stranger”.
Telling people they should be able to understand English compounds the obstacles faced by those who are already suffering - ie those who need asylum but struggle to get it.
“Understanding Australian values” is a requirement that is nonsensical - exactly how are we going to test that? Who determines what Australian values are, and how do they determine that?
September 20th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Bec,
it seems to me both are tasks of Government.
If we allow people to come to the country we surely must provide the resources for them to live here in the way we live.
Our Church offers ESOL for this very reason.
The US has such a test. I can see no reason why one can’t apply here.
One question would be do you agree women should not be allowed to study law. If they disagree we deport them immediately!!!!
September 20th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
Homer,
If someone thought women should not be allowed to study law - heck, to study at all - I wouldn’t be interested in deporting them…I’d be more interested in being able to have the conversation with them on an ongoing basis.
September 20th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
Australian Government Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs Application for Grant of Australian Citizenship
You must answer 75% (28 or more out of 37) of these questions correctly in order to qualify for Australian Citizenship
1. How many slabs can you fit in the back of a Falcon Ute while also allowing room for your cattle dog?
2. When packing an Esky do you put the ice, or the beer, in first? 3. Is the traditional Aussie Christmas dinner:
a) At least two roasted meats with roast vegetables,
followed by a pudding you could use as a cannonball. Also
ham. In 40C heat.
b) A seafood buffet followed by a barbie, with rather a lot of
booze. And ham. In 40C heat.
c) Both of the above, one at lunchtime and one at dinnertime.
Weather continues fine.
4. How many beers in a slab?
5. You call that a knife, this is a knife.
True or False?
6. Does “yeah-nah” mean
a) “Yes and no”
b) “Maybe”
c) “Yes I understand but No I don’t agree”?
7. The phrases “strewth” and “flamin’ dingo” can be attributed to which TV character?
a) Toadie from Neighbours
b) Alf from Home & Away
c) Agro from Agro’s Cartoon Connection
d) Sgt. Tom Croydon from Blue Heelers?
8. When cooking a barbecue do you turn the sausages
a) Once or twice
b) As often as necessary to cook
c) After each stubby
d) Until charcoal?
9. Name three of the Daddo brothers.
10. Who was the original lead singer of AC/DC?
11. Which option describes your ideal summer afternoon:
a) Drinking beer at a mate’s place
b) Drinking beer at the beach
c) Drinking beer watching the cricket/footy
d) Drinking beer at a mate’s place while watching the cricket
before going to the beach?
12. Would you eat pineapple on pizza? Would you eat egg on a pizza?
13. How many cans of beer did David Boon consume on a plane trip from
Australia to England?
14. How many stubbies is it from Brissy to the Gold Coast in a Torana
travelling at 120km/h?
15. Who are Scott and Charlene?
16. How do you apply your tomato sauce to a pie?
a) Squirt and spread with finger
b) Sauce injection straight into the middle?
17. If the police raided your home would you:
a) Allow them to rummage through your personal items
b) Phone up the nearest talkback radio shock jock and
complain
c) Put a written complaint in to John Howard and hope that he
answers it personally?
18. Which Australian Prime Minister held the world record for drinking a
yardie full of beer the fastest?
19. Have you ever had/do you have a mullet?
20. Thongs are:
a) Skimpy underwear
b) Casual footwear
c) They’re called jandals, bro?
21. On which Ashes tour did Warney’s hair look the best?
a) 1993
b) 1997
c) 2001
d) 2005
22. What is someone more likely to die of:
a) Red Back Spider
b) Great White Shark
c) Victorian Police Officer
d) King Brown Snake
e) Your missus after a big night
f) Dropbear?
23. How many times must a steak be turned on a conventional four-burner
barbie?
24. Can you sing along to Cold Chisel’s Khe Sanh?
25. Explain both the “follow-on” and “LBW” rules in cricket and discuss the
pros and cons for the third umpire decisions in the latter….
26. Name at least 5 items that must be taken to a BBQ.
27. Who is current Australian test cricket captain:
a) Ricky Ponting
b) Don Bradman
c) John Howard
d) Makybe Diva?
28. Is it best to take a sick day on:
a) When the cricket’s on
b) When the cricket’s on
c) When the cricket’s on?
29. What animal is on the Bundaberg Rum bottle?
30. What is the difference between a pot and a middy of beer?
31. What are Budgie smugglers?
32. What brand and size of Esky will you be purchasing?
33. Did you cry when Molly died on a Country Practice?
34. A “Hoppoate” is:
a) A breed of kangaroo
b) A kind of Australian “wedgie”
c) A disgraced Rugby League player?
35. What does having a ‘chunder’ mean?
36. When you were young did you prefer the Hills Hoist over any swing
set?
37. What does the terminology ‘True Blue’ mean?
Your Score ………….
September 20th, 2006 at 3:50 pm
Nice work Greg.
Just had to give a ‘character reference’ for someone who’s gotten a job in the Prime Minister’s Dept in Canberra. One of the questions I had to answer on this big bloody questionnaire thing was, “Is _______ ________ a loyal Australian, and what evidence would you quote in support of that?”
True question….what the??
What kind of show are we running here……??? Your list would have been handy, Greg.
September 20th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
seems to me Greg if they can’t answer ALL those questions correctly then it is off to the Gulag with them.
September 20th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Homer you crack me up
September 21st, 2006 at 9:45 am
Phil had to act as a referee once for someone going for a new position in the ATO. One of the questions was “Does he associate with foreign nationals?” The answer was “given that he was born in the US and his family is american, he does a bit”. Then there was the question “To your knowledge does he have any plans to overthrow the government?”
Well, nobody could say that they never asked…
September 21st, 2006 at 10:44 am
Darn! I’m Aussie born and bred and I have my “let’s-overthrow-the-government” moments!!
It reminds me of all those questions you have to fill in when your flying into a country and they ask you about all the illegal things you may be doing. There was one (and I can’t remember what it actually said) –for Singapore I think– that was tantamount to asking whether your visit had any criminal purpose!! Trick question??
September 22nd, 2006 at 9:46 am
(aka tbokar)
DIMMIA Form:
1. What do you think of Australian values?
A I think they would be a very good idea.
2. Do you have a criminal record?
A I didn’t think it was still a requirement.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:22 am
I asked a qu a couple of weeks ago that was echod on this page…
What ARE Australian values?
I loved GTE’s questionaire (and you’re right Greg- GTE DOES sound cooler!), but for the love of a raw prawn… what is an ‘Orstrayliaan’ in 2006?
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Putting the conversation about Australian values on the public agenda is about raising our consciousness around what we find acceptable or not acceptable as part of Australian society.
It is not about answering questions on a form - I think that’s a furphy and trivialises the fact that we are trying to identify the values we hold in common as a nation. We do identify as a nation, as Christian - whether people practice this or not - and notwithstanding recognition and acceptance and inclusion of other faiths.
We do not accept violence as a way of expressing opinion or as a mechanism for conversion or punishment for religious difference.
We do believe in equity, including for women actually - and we do believe in hard work and we don’t as a nation really like much the ‘chip on the shoulder’ attitude (in my view). We like people who will have a go.
I do not find the burqua acceptable. I can handle the headscarf, hajib… but the burqua offends me very much. I am intolerant of women in Australia walking around in black sacks - and all it stands for.
The conversation about Australian values, is about us defining the Australian value set more explicitly.
September 23rd, 2006 at 8:10 pm
brissiegirl,
this is about far more than merely putting the debate about values on the agenda - it’s about making citizenship conditional on not only knowing, but agreeing with those values.
Value number 1 for Australia in 2006: we like you, as long as you’re just like us.
The first time I saw someone in full burqa, with the eye covering and everything, I flipped out and walked back out of the shop. Now I live in a different suburb and see it all the time, and it doesn’t phase me one bit.
Brissiegirl, if someone wants to parade around in a tiny bikini on a family beach, nobody really bats an eyelid. People might assume she’s an easy lay, and they might make judgments of her body, but that’s it.
On the other hand, when someone sees a woman in a burqa, they immediately think she’s some subservient, weak, victim.
I assume, since you’re on Signposts, that you’re a Western Christian woman. No matter how hard you and I try to understand burqa, we can’t. I don’t believe you or I are in a position to know what you so insultingly called “black sacks” stand for.
Have you ever asked a woman wearing one what it stands for?
September 23rd, 2006 at 8:12 pm
btw - it’s hijab.
September 25th, 2006 at 11:44 am
We had a good laugh about this the other day- trying to figure out what Australian values might be!
Anyone who thinks Australians value hard work has obviously never been out of the country and seen 15 year old girls working 15 hour days, seven days a week- and being pleased to have such a good job. Even in the US- few people get the four weeks annual leave that most Australians take for granted. We value not having to work too hard! Anyone want to put that in a values statement? Or that if you are an Australian kid at school, people will put you down if you try too hard or if you’re an overachiever.
Women’s rights? There are heaps of Aussies who don’t think women are as intelligent as men, and that women with a further education are taking jobs that rightfully belong to men.
As for saying we all hold values about what it is appropriate to wear, ie. burqas, how can we also say we value freedom of expression and religion?
The language question I find really bizarre: even today, in Australia, there are Aboriginal people who don’t speak English, apart from that, there a many nations that are heavily multilingual- having one language per country is a ridiculous idea that simply doesn’t work in the majority of places around the world. Many Australians live overseas without speaking a language of the country that they are living in.
Once they are living in Australia, most immigrants are keen to learn English anyway. My mothers family arrived here speaking hardly a word of English, within a few years they were all fluent speakers. Yet my father, a Cornish immigrant, with English as his only language, had such a thick Cornish accent that most Aussies had difficulty understanding him.
Apart from that- most of these things are already covered by Australian law, eg. public nudity, racism, sexism, etc, which immigrants have to abide by anyway! Do I want Howard telling me what my values are??? I don’t think so. The only reason people are supporting this, is because they are assuming that the values immigrants will have to agree to, are the same as their own personal values.
Probably the one truism you could say about Australian values is that Aussies will never agree on anything!
September 25th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Aussie values = the sum total of my own collected prejudices.
September 25th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
(AKA) tbokar
From the Herald Sun:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20471160-5007146,00.html