Of sin and schadenfreude
So if you missed it, a prominent conservative evangelical preacher from Colorado, Ted Haggard was forced to resign from his church and confess to at least some of a homosexual escort’s allegations that he was paying for meth-fuelled gay sex while campaigning against same sex marriage. I don’t really want to add to the discussion of this. I actually don’t pay a lot of attention to US evangelicals so until the news came out, I didn’t really know who this guy was.
However, I had a couple of thoughts about this generally. It seems to me that if there is an element of the culture wars to be found in the worldwide christian church (and I believe that there is), it tends to show us all in the worst and least Christian light. For those that disagree with Haggard’s politics or theology, this dramatic downfall seems to be almost a gift. In one fell swoop everything he has ever preached, believed or created is completely undermined. His entire ministry will now forever be appended with an implied footnote - yeah, he grew this church from nothing to 14,000 people and had the ear of the president, but it turns out he was a fag, so what does that tell ya?
At once, he becomes the poster child for “those hypocritical conservatives” or, more broadly, “those hypocritical Christians”. However, none of this really logically follows in my view. A thriving sub-set of preachers and speakers on issues of sexual sin speak from a background of self-declared sexual struggle (a variation of the “I have conquered my evil thoughts” or “I have embraced that part of me that I once thought was sinful”). Obviously the guy is in crisis right now, but there doesn’t seem to me to be any reason why he couldn’t pursue his calling in some appropriately honest and forgiven way in the future.
As I have said, before the last week or so, I wouldn’t have known Ted Haggard if I tripped over him. With only the most casual glance over his political and theological positions, I am fairly confident that I would have disagreed with him on a whole range of issues. However I confess to being very uncomfortable with the implied breathless glee that comes with reports of yet another fallen moral crusader. I just can’t be pleased and self-righteous about the fact that a guy’s life has unravelled through his own sinfulness.
Similarly I can’t summon much shame and chagrin when people point out that leaders and speakers who influence my thoughts once wrote a couple of sentences which could be understood to be heretical, or that they once extended support to someone who it later turns out is not worthy of support.
I believe that in this “culture war” atmosphere, more and more we seem to take joy from the failings of others and use them as a reason to ignore or de-emphasise their point of view. Serious and major mistakes such as the ones I have been reading about appear to lend credence to the idea that smaller, even petty, shortcomings should similarly disentitle someone to express a political or theological opinion.
In Ben Elton’s book Blast from the Past he paints a picture of the US military in which the most important quality to acheive peace time promotion is to be innoffensive and free of controversy. The book suggests that in a climate which is anxious to stamp out scandal, the only people likely to assume positions of power are those that are too ineffectual to do the job. I wonder if the same can be said of moral leadership.
Some of my greatest spiritual heroes are people who have struggled with decisions about what is right or not. Sometimes they have made mistakes. But I always thought that this made them stronger. I like that Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrestled with his own conscience about whether to be involved in an assasination plot as an expression of his faith. I admire the fact that Oscar Romero was originally appointed ArchBishop of El Salvador because he had a record of turning a blind eye to injustice. I like that Luther made enemies and offended people. I like that one of the people I think most perfectly embodies the Christian ideal - Gandhi - was unashamedly not Christian.
However I wonder whether the church still has the ability to allow people to be flawed and in leadership. Our whole religion is based on the idea of redemption and forgiveness, but we allow so little of it with our leaders. I know that some of the people who comment here will jump to the situation of leaders who engage in spiritual abuse, but that is not my primary concern in this post.
My question is this. Does the global church and the public have the will and ability to embrace and support moral leaders with moral flaws? Or will we be unable to resist using those moral flaws to sink our opponents, and contribute to the elevation of the bland and inoffensive?
PS. I think that much of the conservative evangelical comment on this situation has been incredibly grace-filled, which is nice. The quotes from church members in the article I linked were lovely, but seemed to suggest that Haggard was no longer a part of the community - I hope that is not true, or at least that he and his family would continue to be pastorally cared for elsewhere.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Janet,
it doesn’t matter what people are they can only indulge in sexual activity if they are married.
Most people who come up with the homophobia comments are usually targeted to people who merely sat homosexual activity is a sinful activity.
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
The Leadership Blog Interview: Ted Haggard
Bio: Ted Haggard founded New Life Church in 1985, where he serves as Senior Pastor. It now has over 11,000 members and is the largest church in Colorado. He is the author of six books, including Primary Purpose; The Life Giving Church; Loving Your City Into the Kingdom (co-authored with Jack Hayford). Ted also serves on the Board of the National Association of Evangelicals as President
The Leadership Blog Interview
1. Ted, what gives you the greatest joy in being a leader?
Ted: “I love living with a team. I don’t believe that any of us can do much without a team: a group of like-minded people accomplishing a task and making life more productive for everyone involved. Leadership provides direction and the focus necessary for the team to operate. Every successful venture requires leadership. As a result, I am honored when I can lead others to be more successful and productive than they would have been otherwise.”
2. What is your biggest pet peeve as a leader?
Ted: “The discouragement that comes when someone could have chosen a better path but instead chose one that will not give them nearly the potential they possessed.”
3. Who made the biggest influence in your life as a leader?
Ted: “Roy Stockstill in the joy of pastoral ministry. Daniel Ost in the necessity of working with eternity in mind. Oral Roberts in the reality that God is good and wants the best for us. John Maxwell in the importance of adding value to ourselves and then investing that value into others. These are a few of the man who have invested in me.”
4. What books have changed your life?
Ted: “The Bible by God. The Lexus and the Olive Tree by Thomas Freedman. The Three Kings by Gene Edwards. The Clash of Civilizations by Huntington. Spiritual Authority by Nee.”
5. What’s your biggest challenge as a leader?
Ted: “Managing time.”
6. What goals do you have as a leader?
Ted: “To help others be better off.”
7. Where do you see yourself in ten years?
Ted: “Serving New Life Church in Colorado Springs, CO”
Thanks Ted for taking time for the interview. Your book the “Life-Giving Church” influenced me in a major way!”
From http://leadershipblog.blogspot.com/2005/08/leadership-blog-interview-ted-haggard.html
January 3rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm
ho·mo·pho·bi·a (hm-fb-) KEY
NOUN:
Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
Behavior based on such a feeling.
I have so often heard homophobia - a relatively new term in the english language, and i thought gee, i should see if it has been officially defined and it was. This is as big to me as the day I found out that “ain’t” was officially a real word (Pronunciation: ‘Ant
Etymology: contraction of are not
1 : am not : are not : is not
2 : have not : has not
3 : do not : does not : did not — used in some varieties of Black English) from Miriam webster -not only does she write songs or hillsong but now I guess she defines words also - busy girl!
Back to h’phobia: After looking at Miriam’s definition,I guess i am not homophobic after all - now that was a relief. Of course since Miriam Webster is doing all of this defining, I could be a bit wary that perhaps brian Houston (WHO-STUN) may have ordered her to water the definition down some.
Lionfish - I believe you may be “titheaphobic” - Rev is mysteriously “consumerismaphobic” and Homer isobviously “LPaphobic”
I am calling Hil$ong tommorow to see if they can get Miriam Webster to add these words to her online dictionary. You GO, Girl…
January 30th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
“As soon as the visitor from Denver walked through the church doors Sunday morning, heads turned. Word spread quickly: He was here.
Just about every person who offered him a handshake said the same thing: Welcome, thank you and God bless.
About 14,000 people pour into New Life Church in Colorado Springs each Sunday, so anonymity is not difficult to achieve.
One exception is when you are Mike Jones, the former male prostitute whose allegations of a three-year sexual liaison with church founder Ted Haggard triggered national scandal and led to Haggard’s fall.
Jones attended services Sunday at New Life Church on a reconnaissance mission for his forthcoming book and said he was greeted warmly. Haggard, in an apology to the church, had urged members to forgive and thank Jones for exposing deceit.
“I had read a lot about the church, but there’s nothing like seeing it for yourself,” Jones said. “It wasn’t to rub anyone’s face in it by any means. I was wanting to get some perspective, to see where they are coming from, what the magnet is.”
Jones had been invited to New Life several times by church members since Haggard resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and was fired from the church after admitting in November to “sexual immorality.”
Jones was accompanied Sunday by members of a New York- based theater troupe, the Civilians, who are in Colorado Springs researching a project on evangelicals. Church leaders were told in advance of the visit.
“A couple of ladies cried when they were touching me,” Jones said. “I was thanked for exposing the church, for helping Ted Haggard. A couple of them said they hoped I get God into my life. And they all said ‘God bless you,’ every one of them.”
But Jones - who came forward out of anger toward Haggard’s political stances against homosexuality - said he wasn’t impressed on the whole. If the Gospel message is enough, he said, why the loud music and MTV-quality production?
“There seems to be something missing, some realism, in my opinion, because it’s so vast, like some kind of self-contained city,” said Jones, who said he was raised Methodist but is estranged from organized religion.
When associate pastor Rob Brendle encountered Jones in the foyer, he commented, “The last time I saw you was on the other side of a split screen” during TV interviews.
Brendle characterized Jones’ presence as a reminder of both grief and God’s faithfulness.
“I told Mike, ‘I don’t want to impose my religious beliefs on you, but I believe God used you to correct us, and I appreciate that,”‘ Brendle said. “The church’s response to him was overwhelmingly warm. One of the wonderful and enduring truths of Christianity is to love people the world sets up to be your enemies.”
Haggard and his wife, Gayle, have completed a counseling program at an Arizona treatment center and are back in Colorado Springs awaiting direction from a panel overseeing what has been termed Haggard’s “restoration,” Brendle said.”
From http://test.denverpost.com/ci_5107908
January 30th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
This is an interview with Mike Jones about his visit to Ted Haggard’s (former) church.
Hopefully one of these two links will work for you.
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/DENVER-CO/KHOW-AM/0129PETE6A.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=DENVER-CO&NG_FORMAT=talk&SITE_ID=636&STATION_ID=KHOW-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=Peter_Boyles&PCAST_CAT=Spoken_Word&PCAST_TITLE=The_Complete_Pete
http://www.khow.com/cc-common/podcast/request_song.php?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=DENVER-CO&NG_FORMAT=talk&SITE_ID=636&STATION_ID=KHOW-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=Peter_Boyles&PCAST_CAT=Spoken_Word&PCAST_TITLE=The_Complete_Pete&enclosure_url=http%3A%2F%2Fa1135.g.akamai.net%2Ff%2F1135%2F18227%2F1h%2Fcchannel.download.akamai.com%2F18227%2Fpodcast%2FDENVER-CO%2FKHOW-AM%2F0129PETE6A.mp3
If not, I’ll post passwords that access KHOW’s podcast page.
February 7th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Now I’m confused.
Which pastor is the ‘liar and deceiver’ again?
–
“Haggard says he is “completely heterosexual”
By Eric Gorski
Denver Post Staff Writer
The Rev. Ted Haggard emerged from three weeks of intensive counseling convinced he is “completely heterosexual” and told an oversight board that his sexual contact with men was limited to his accuser.
That is according to one of the disgraced pastor’s overseers, who on Monday revealed new details about where Haggard has been and where he is headed.
The Rev. Tim Ralph of Larkspur also said the four-man oversight board strongly urged Haggard to go into secular work instead of Christian ministry if Haggard and his wife follow through on plans to earn master’s degrees in psychology.
Haggard broke a three-month silence in e-mails over the weekend to select members of his former church. New Life Church interim senior pastor Ross Parsley forwarded Haggard’s message to the wider church body Monday.
In the message, Haggard revealed that he and his wife, Gayle, intend to leave Colorado Springs and pursue master’s degrees through online courses.
Haggard mentioned Missouri and Iowa as possible destinations. Another oversight board member, the Rev. Mike Ware of Westminster, said the group recommended the move out of town, and the Haggards agreed.
“This is a good place for Ted,” Ware said. “It’s hard to heal in Colorado Springs right now. It’s like an open wound. He needs to get somewhere he can get the wound healed.”
Haggard, 50, resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and was fired from the church he built from nothing into a 14,000-member congregation after a former male prostitute in Denver alleged a three-year cash-for-sex relationship.
Haggard admitted to “sexual immorality” and a long battle against feelings contrary to his beliefs. He admitted buying methamphetamine but said he never used it. Haggard did not respond to interview requests.
Among other things, the overseers urged Haggard to enter a 12-step program for sexual addiction, Ware said.
Ralph said three weeks of counseling at an undisclosed Arizona treatment center helped Haggard immensely and left Haggard sure of one thing.
“He is completely heterosexual,” Ralph said. “That is something he discovered. It was the acting- out situations where things took place. It wasn’t a constant thing.”
Why Haggard chose to act out in that manner is something Haggard and his advisers are trying to discern, Ralph said.
In investigating Haggard’s assertion that his extramarital sexual contact was limited to former male escort Mike Jones, the board talked to people close to Haggard and found no evidence contradicting him, Ralph said.
“If we’re going to be proved wrong, somebody else is going to come forward, and that usually happens really quickly,” he said. “We’re into this thing over 90 days, and it hasn’t happened.”
Steering Haggard away from a return to ministry was based, in part, on Haggard’s high profile, Ralph said. He cited biblical passages about holding influential figures to a higher standard.
“Nobody is saying he can’t go back into ministry,” Ralph said. “Somewhere down the road, that could very well happen, and that would be wonderful.”
Haggard is being asked to join a church wherever the couple moves and continue the Christian counseling he receives twice a week, Ralph said.
The oversight board that includes Ralph is focusing on New Life Church’s future but continues to counsel Haggard.
What has been termed Haggard’s “restoration” is being overseen by another panel: H.B. London, who runs a Focus on the Family ministry to pastors, and megachurch pastors Tommy Barnett and Jack Hayford.
London said he was not surprised Haggard was considering the psychological field.
“Many of us that go into the healing, helping professions do so out of some sort of dysfunction or traumatic event in our lives, and we want to do what we can to help other people avoid what we’ve gone through,” he said. “He is certainly gifted and intelligent and has an intuitive side to him. And he has life experience. Those are good credentials.”
February 8th, 2007 at 8:52 am
“He admitted buying methamphetamine but said he never used it.”
Tip o’ the iceberg as far as honesty and lack thereof goes i know, but I found this pretty odd. Who buys drugs just for the heck of it?
February 8th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
It’s the thrill of the purchase.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Hey, do we believe in the truth of Kinsey’s scale? ie, that there are degrees of sexuality from 1-5 or 1-7? Just wondering if anyone has heard any recent comments on it?
If it still stands, then ‘completely straight’ might be a stretch…
February 9th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
2 For 1 Friday.
“The prostitute who first exposed Evangelical minister Ted Haggard as a closeted gay man and crystal meth user has responded to Haggard’s claim that he has successfully completed three weeks of “ex-gay” counseling.
In response to Haggard’s statement, Jones giggled and responded “Well, that’s the quickest therapy I’ve ever heard of. It’s hard for me to imagine someone who is performing oral sex and saying that he is ’straight.’ That just doesn’t jive.” If you were to ask me ‘Do I think is Ted haggard gay?’ I would have to say ‘yes’,” he added.
In response to one of Haggard’s counselor’s claims that Haggard’s activities were not a “constant thing,” Jones explained that he could only speak to the time he spent with Haggard and that had an ongoing sexual relationship with the minister and that their time together “indicated a gay man to me.” Jones also shared that he had heard from two other individuals that claimed they had encounters with Haggard. Those accusers, Jones asserted, have chosen to remain anonymous for fear of losing their jobs.
When asked why he decided to expose Haggard, Jones said he was “tormented” over the decision, but that the “hypocrisy was so strong and evident that I just could not sit by any longer.”
From http://pageoneq.com/news/2006/haggard020706.html
—
And…
“Disgraced evangelical pastor Ted Haggard’s former congregation will get a progress report Feb. 18 from the oversight board helping the church recover.
At services at New Life Church that Sunday, the panel will “provide any necessary clarification of (Haggard’s) restoration process and give us a report on the New Life staff,” according to a congregation-wide e-mail from interim senior pastor Ross Parsley.
Haggard and the church severed ties last week in an agreement that pays Haggard an undisclosed settlement and requires him to not talk publicly about the gay-sex scandal that led to his ouster.
Parsley also revealed that the three weeks of counseling Haggard recently received in Arizona was at a secular facility.”
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_5190078
February 9th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Re: 729, Toddy says “If it still stands, then ‘completely straight’ might be a stretch… ”
Sounds like there also may be some hetro in the gayest of us and visa versa… This is a good time to reflect on where we all may be on the gay scale, or is it the hetro scale? Think folks, What is you r Homo quotient?
February 10th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
I prefer to think of a sexuality continuum not a scale - but rather fluid movement - although some are more fixed at a certain point on te continuum than others are - Ted Haggard moved around on the continuum
February 10th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
yeah, sort of like the fluid movement of a thermometer - like a gay temperature or straight temperature.
0 degrees and below would be gay on the clecius scale
1 and above would be straight
so if your temperature ranges from -5 to 5 above, then I guess you would be bi-sexual.
February 10th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
perhaps Ted though he was buying a crystal vase and was keeping it for some very special flowers?
February 10th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
According to the latest on Ted haggard he is pushing 6 degree’s these days - BEWARE OF WINTER!
February 10th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Ted who?
February 10th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Ted Haggard - keep up with the conversation or bow out Sanders
February 19th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
“Overseers’ letter to New Life congregation
Here is a copy of the Feb. 18 letter from overseers to the congregation of New Life Church:
Dear New Life family and friends,
On November 1, 2006, we, as the Board of Overseers for this church, were called upon by the moral default of your former pastor. We have worked diligently since then to restore both Ted and New Life Church.
Concerning Ted and his family, we have done extensive fact-finding into his lifelong battle with a “dark side” which he said in his confession letter has been a struggle for years. We have verified the reality of that struggle through numerous individuals who reported to us firsthand knowledge of everything from sordid conversation to overt suggestions to improper activities to improper relationships. These findings established a pattern of behavior that culminated in the final relationship in which Ted was, as a matter of grace, caught. We learned most of those circumstances through confidential pastoral communications that, because of their pastoral character, cannot be disclosed. However, it was the opinion of the Overseer Board and Restorer Board that our initial action of removing Ted from leadership was not only warranted, but also merciful to him and to the church.
Some of you have wondered why Ted had to leave this church. You know that Ted had an enormous personality. As hard as this action appears, it is the considered and unanimous judgment of the Restorers and Overseers that Ted’s presence is so large and his wrongful conduct so tangled that this church and its leadership would become distracted by his continuing presence. For the sake of Ted’s restoration, it is best for him to move out of Colorado Springs for the recovery of his personal family life and his personal Christian life.
Ted and Gayle have agreed to this counsel and are cooperating fully.
After much prayer and consultation, and after seeking input from the Restorers and Overseers, the church’s Board of Trustees has fairly and compassionately decided to support the Haggard family throughout 2007.
This act of Christian love will provide professional care, counseling, and the financial support they immediately need to continue in their journey of recovery. Ted and Gayle will soon relocate and find a local church to attend and other professional support in their new location. The Overseers and Restorers will continue to provide guidance and direction for Ted and his family. Also, the Trustees graciously provided the funds for Ted and Gayle to participate in 21 days of analysis and counseling that offered new insights consistent with our initial findings. That time of counseling was quite helpful to Ted and Gayle, and is simply the launching point by which years of counsel and fruits of true repentance may be demonstrated.
There should be no confusion that deliverance from habitual, life-controlling problems is a “journey” and not an “event.” Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies.
Concerning New Life and the church family, we have been most pleased with the quality of leadership we have witnessed in the elders, the trustees, and the senior staff. In addition, the entire staff of New Life is cooperative and amazing. This church has the potential of fulfilling its dream of “passion for God and compassion for people.”
While our investigation is not complete, I can report that we have found a few staff members struggling with unrelated sin issues. Each such person has been confronted and has submitted to discipline. Based upon what we presently know, we believe that the general culture of this church today is Christ-centered and holy. This process has taken huge amounts of our time to interview, gather facts, and track down rumors. It is not finished. To our relief, we are finding no culture of immorality among the staff here as we might have initially expected.
We, the Overseers, have committed ourselves to serve this church for the rest of the year of 2007. In that time, we will serve in an expanded role appointed by the Trustees as a spiritual “presbytery,” or a spiritual covering, to give the final word on all spiritual decisions and provide other guidance until a new pastor is confirmed by you as the congregation.
On that day, our work will be through. In the meantime, we will work very closely with the executive pastoral team. They have all displayed outstanding character, responsibility and faithfulness. The Interim Pastor will consult with us on the day to day operations, which he will continue to oversee.
The purpose of this continuing role for the Overseers is to provide additional outside stability. The senior pastoral staff has welcomed this development. It will allow adequate time, without pressure, for the Pastoral Selection Committee to consider potential candidates, both inside and outside the church, for the role of Senior Pastor.
We have also recommended Pastor Chris Hodges to be the fifth member of the Board of Overseers.
Joshua said, “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord…” (Josh. 24: 15). As we prepare ourselves for the Easter season, we all have a choice today: Will we live as captives of the past, the grave and sin, or will we shake ourselves, cleanse ourselves, and rise up to be a powerful new Body? The world, the nation, this community, and your families are watching how you respond to crisis: with courage and faithfulness or with cynicism and retreat. To this point, we have seen amazing evidence of the grace of God upon the wonderful family called “New Life Church.” “Where sin does abound, grace does much more abound,” and that means much grace is being poured out upon us right now!
Pray fervently for the staff, as change, restructuring, and reorganization are inevitable. Like any army that suffers a setback, they re-focus, re-tool, and rebound. The Overseers will continue their work with the staff to do long-term master planning, speak in chapels to minister to and pastor the staff, and conduct final interviews to discover any sin that may be present. The Pastoral Selection committee will carefully work through all candidates both within and outside the Body of New Life until the Holy Spirit gives everyone the witness that the new leader has been found.
When God judged the world in the time of Noah, Noah’s family entered the Ark. It was not until five months had gone by the waters began to decrease. It was after seven and a half months the first sign of the tops of the mountains appeared. It was not until one year and ten days had gone by that Noah and his family exited the Ark.
In a similar way, we see the exposure of your pastor as the moment of judgment. Five months from that day will be Easter…seven and a half months will be Father’s Day…one year and ten days will be November 14th. Our encouragement to you today is, “Stay in the Ark.”
The winds may howl, the storms may rage, and the Ark may drift but you are still safe within. We expect that by November of this year, all of you will step out into a “New Life” and a new world with the memories, disappointments, and judgments all behind.
Join us in making 2007 a “Year of Faithfulness.” We will make it to the other side and Jesus will be exalted at New Life Church!
Sincerely,
The Overseers of New Life Church.”
Some points to note there.
The overseers imply that they don’t sin.
This appears to be a major difference between charismatic thinking..and Paul’s declaration in Romans that all people sin and that none are righteous.
“Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies.”
Tendencies?
Don’t Christians always harp on about the difference between orientation and acting out? (feelings vs. having a root).
Ted has to ‘demonstrate’ his ‘victory’ over tendencies..to be acceptable?
Thank God I left the church.
February 19th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
I was wondering which one of the overseers was able to pick up the first stone, as they do appear to be without sin
March 5th, 2007 at 2:49 am
“It looks like there’s fallout from the Ted Haggard scandal at New Life church. Reliable sources at New Life Church confirm 30 to 50 employees have been laid off. They say the lay-offs are across the board from pastoral staff to part-time nursery workers and it’s primarily a money saving move. After Ted Haggard resigned, they say attendance and church offerings at New Life have dropped. Now the church is making changes to live within its means. News First has confirmed that Ross Parsley, the interim Senior Pastor, was not let go.
News First contacted New Life about an interview. They declined, saying they wanted to discuss this with their congregation before speaking to us.”
From http://www.koaa.com/news/view.asp?ID=6831
March 5th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
The overseers imply that they don’t sin.
Where do they do that. Kindly point this out although if you could you would have already done it I suspect!
This appears to be a major difference between charismatic thinking..and Paul’s declaration in Romans that all people sin and that none are righteous.
Again where is the evidence to show that they believe none are righteous except through belief in Jesus?
“Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies.”
Dictionary.com has one of its definitions as a natural or prevailing disposition to move, proceed, or act in some direction or toward some point, end, or result: the tendency of falling bodies toward the earth.
He not only fell to earth he had a great big thud.
In other words his tendencies led to actions thus the need for help.
March 5th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
One of the many bizarre quotes:
“To our relief, we are finding no culture of immorality among the staff here as we might have initially expected. ”
Sounds like they expected staff orgies under the corrupt influence of Ted… honestly!!!!
March 6th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
“The 14,000-member New Life Church, citing overstaffing and a decline in giving, laid off 44 people over the past week.
The move came just four months after Ted Haggard, its former charismatic pastor, was removed amid a sex and drugs scandal.
“Several people on our staff are being affected,” Ross Parsley, the church’s interim senior pastor, told congregants at Sunday-morning services.
“The reality of that forces us to make some good decisions,” he said, adding that the layoffs had been a “painful process.”
The church had about 350 part-time and full-time staff members. Those affected range from custodians to administrators at the World Prayer Center.
Parsley said the church is consolidating some positions and in other cases will use volunteers in place of paid staff.
At a question-and-answer session with congregants after the Sunday-night service, Parsley said that in the four months since Haggard’s departure, revenue is off 10 percent compared with the same period a year earlier. Parsley said the church was not in a finan- cial freefall and attributed much of the problem to overstaffing.
“We were kind of living on the edge,” he said. “That’s good for everybody until a rainy day comes, and now we’re in the rain. We certainly can’t keep using money we don’t have.”
Associate pastor Rob Brendle said the church was “committed to getting the house in order” before a new pastor is selected. He also stressed that although the church cut positions, it wasn’t cutting any ministry functions.
On Sunday morning, Parsley called the restructuring a “holy process” during which the church needed to ensure it was a good steward of tithes and offerings.
At the request of The Gazette, the church provided financial documents spanning 2003 to 2005. The church said 2006 figures were not yet available, so it’s unclear how Haggard’s departure affected the last two months of last year or projections for this year.
From 2003 to 2005, church cash-flow statements show income from tithes and offerings steadily increased, from nearly $10.9 million to almost $13.3 million.
Overall revenue increased from $14.4 million in 2003 to $24.4 million in 2005. The rise, according to budget figures, was primarily caused by an increase in giving designated specifically to missions and other ministry projects.
Salaries and benefits increased from roughly $5.4 million in 2003 to $7 million in 2005, with Haggard being paid $114,500 in 2003 and other senior employees’ salaries ranging from $69,000 to $108,000, according to the financial records.
By 2004, Haggard was earning nearly $126,000. The church did not break out individual salaries in 2005 budget documents.
Total expenditures rose from $13.3 million in 2003 to $23.4 million in 2005.
During services Feb. 18, church leaders announced that New Life would offer financial support to the Haggard family over the next year. The amount, they said, will be roughly the equivalent of the $130,000 annual salary Haggard received as pastor, according to Brendle.
In addition to being forced out as pastor, Haggard resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals after a Denver man said he repeatedly had sex with Haggard. Haggard admitted to “sexual immorality” and buying methamphetamine.
Brendle said New Life decided to provide support because “the local church is in the business of redemption.”
“We recognize that is the work we are about,” he said. “We recognize that Ted and Gayle’s contribution as our founder and as our senior pastor for over 20 years are immeasurable, even as Ted’s indiscretions are inexcusable.”
Asked whether the payout to Haggard had an impact on the layoffs, Brendle said it was only a tiny fraction of the cuts that needed to be made.”
From http://www.gazette.com/onset?id=19799&template=article.html