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	<title>Comments on: Of sin and schadenfreude</title>
	<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/</link>
	<description>musings from those on the journey</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Lance</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-157769</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-157769</guid>
		<description>"The 14,000-member New Life Church, citing overstaffing and a decline in giving, laid off 44 people over the past week. 

The move came just four months after Ted Haggard, its former charismatic pastor, was removed amid a sex and drugs scandal. 

“Several people on our staff are being affected,” Ross Parsley, the church’s interim senior pastor, told congregants at Sunday-morning services. 

“The reality of that forces us to make some good decisions,” he said, adding that the layoffs had been a “painful process.” 

The church had about 350 part-time and full-time staff members. Those affected range from custodians to administrators at the World Prayer Center. 

Parsley said the church is consolidating some positions and in other cases will use volunteers in place of paid staff. 

At a question-and-answer session with congregants after the Sunday-night service, Parsley said that in the four months since Haggard’s departure, revenue is off 10 percent compared with the same period a year earlier. Parsley said the church was not in a finan- cial freefall and attributed much of the problem to overstaffing. 

“We were kind of living on the edge,” he said. “That’s good for everybody until a rainy day comes, and now we’re in the rain. We certainly can’t keep using money we don’t have.” 

Associate pastor Rob Brendle said the church was “committed to getting the house in order” before a new pastor is selected. He also stressed that although the church cut positions, it wasn’t cutting any ministry functions. 

On Sunday morning, Parsley called the restructuring a “holy process” during which the church needed to ensure it was a good steward of tithes and offerings. 

At the request of The Gazette, the church provided financial documents spanning 2003 to 2005. The church said 2006 figures were not yet available, so it’s unclear how Haggard’s departure affected the last two months of last year or projections for this year. 

From 2003 to 2005, church cash-flow statements show income from tithes and offerings steadily increased, from nearly $10.9 million to almost $13.3 million. 

Overall revenue increased from $14.4 million in 2003 to $24.4 million in 2005. The rise, according to budget figures, was primarily caused by an increase in giving designated specifically to missions and other ministry projects. 

Salaries and benefits increased from roughly $5.4 million in 2003 to $7 million in 2005, with Haggard being paid $114,500 in 2003 and other senior employees’ salaries ranging from $69,000 to $108,000, according to the financial records. 

By 2004, Haggard was earning nearly $126,000. The church did not break out individual salaries in 2005 budget documents. 

Total expenditures rose from $13.3 million in 2003 to $23.4 million in 2005. 

During services Feb. 18, church leaders announced that New Life would offer financial support to the Haggard family over the next year. The amount, they said, will be roughly the equivalent of the $130,000 annual salary Haggard received as pastor, according to Brendle. 

In addition to being forced out as pastor, Haggard resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals after a Denver man said he repeatedly had sex with Haggard. Haggard admitted to “sexual immorality” and buying methamphetamine. 

Brendle said New Life decided to provide support because “the local church is in the business of redemption.” 

“We recognize that is the work we are about,” he said. “We recognize that Ted and Gayle’s contribution as our founder and as our senior pastor for over 20 years are immeasurable, even as Ted’s indiscretions are inexcusable.” 

Asked whether the payout to Haggard had an impact on the layoffs, Brendle said it was only a tiny fraction of the cuts that needed to be made."

From http://www.gazette.com/onset?id=19799&#38;template=article.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The 14,000-member New Life Church, citing overstaffing and a decline in giving, laid off 44 people over the past week. </p>
<p>The move came just four months after Ted Haggard, its former charismatic pastor, was removed amid a sex and drugs scandal. </p>
<p>“Several people on our staff are being affected,” Ross Parsley, the church’s interim senior pastor, told congregants at Sunday-morning services. </p>
<p>“The reality of that forces us to make some good decisions,” he said, adding that the layoffs had been a “painful process.” </p>
<p>The church had about 350 part-time and full-time staff members. Those affected range from custodians to administrators at the World Prayer Center. </p>
<p>Parsley said the church is consolidating some positions and in other cases will use volunteers in place of paid staff. </p>
<p>At a question-and-answer session with congregants after the Sunday-night service, Parsley said that in the four months since Haggard’s departure, revenue is off 10 percent compared with the same period a year earlier. Parsley said the church was not in a finan- cial freefall and attributed much of the problem to overstaffing. </p>
<p>“We were kind of living on the edge,” he said. “That’s good for everybody until a rainy day comes, and now we’re in the rain. We certainly can’t keep using money we don’t have.” </p>
<p>Associate pastor Rob Brendle said the church was “committed to getting the house in order” before a new pastor is selected. He also stressed that although the church cut positions, it wasn’t cutting any ministry functions. </p>
<p>On Sunday morning, Parsley called the restructuring a “holy process” during which the church needed to ensure it was a good steward of tithes and offerings. </p>
<p>At the request of The Gazette, the church provided financial documents spanning 2003 to 2005. The church said 2006 figures were not yet available, so it’s unclear how Haggard’s departure affected the last two months of last year or projections for this year. </p>
<p>From 2003 to 2005, church cash-flow statements show income from tithes and offerings steadily increased, from nearly $10.9 million to almost $13.3 million. </p>
<p>Overall revenue increased from $14.4 million in 2003 to $24.4 million in 2005. The rise, according to budget figures, was primarily caused by an increase in giving designated specifically to missions and other ministry projects. </p>
<p>Salaries and benefits increased from roughly $5.4 million in 2003 to $7 million in 2005, with Haggard being paid $114,500 in 2003 and other senior employees’ salaries ranging from $69,000 to $108,000, according to the financial records. </p>
<p>By 2004, Haggard was earning nearly $126,000. The church did not break out individual salaries in 2005 budget documents. </p>
<p>Total expenditures rose from $13.3 million in 2003 to $23.4 million in 2005. </p>
<p>During services Feb. 18, church leaders announced that New Life would offer financial support to the Haggard family over the next year. The amount, they said, will be roughly the equivalent of the $130,000 annual salary Haggard received as pastor, according to Brendle. </p>
<p>In addition to being forced out as pastor, Haggard resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals after a Denver man said he repeatedly had sex with Haggard. Haggard admitted to “sexual immorality” and buying methamphetamine. </p>
<p>Brendle said New Life decided to provide support because “the local church is in the business of redemption.” </p>
<p>“We recognize that is the work we are about,” he said. “We recognize that Ted and Gayle’s contribution as our founder and as our senior pastor for over 20 years are immeasurable, even as Ted’s indiscretions are inexcusable.” </p>
<p>Asked whether the payout to Haggard had an impact on the layoffs, Brendle said it was only a tiny fraction of the cuts that needed to be made.&#8221;</p>
<p>From <a href="http://www.gazette.com/onset?id=19799&amp;template=article.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gazette.com/onset?id=19799&amp;template=article.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-157578</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-157578</guid>
		<description>One of the many bizarre quotes:

"To our relief, we are finding no culture of immorality among the staff here as we might have initially expected. "

Sounds like they expected staff orgies under the corrupt influence of Ted... honestly!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the many bizarre quotes:</p>
<p>&#8220;To our relief, we are finding no culture of immorality among the staff here as we might have initially expected. &#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like they expected staff orgies under the corrupt influence of Ted&#8230; honestly!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Bring Back EP at LP</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-157567</link>
		<dc:creator>Bring Back EP at LP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 05:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-157567</guid>
		<description>The overseers imply that they don’t sin.

Where do they do that. Kindly point this out although if you could you would have already done it I suspect!

This appears to be a major difference between charismatic thinking..and Paul’s declaration in Romans that all people sin and that none are righteous.
Again where is the evidence to show that they believe none are righteous except through belief in Jesus?

“Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies.”

Dictionary.com has one of its definitions as a natural or prevailing disposition to move, proceed, or act in some direction or toward some point, end, or result: the tendency of falling bodies toward the earth. 

He not only fell to earth he had a great big thud.
In other words his tendencies led to actions thus the need for help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The overseers imply that they don’t sin.</p>
<p>Where do they do that. Kindly point this out although if you could you would have already done it I suspect!</p>
<p>This appears to be a major difference between charismatic thinking..and Paul’s declaration in Romans that all people sin and that none are righteous.<br />
Again where is the evidence to show that they believe none are righteous except through belief in Jesus?</p>
<p>“Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies.”</p>
<p>Dictionary.com has one of its definitions as a natural or prevailing disposition to move, proceed, or act in some direction or toward some point, end, or result: the tendency of falling bodies toward the earth. </p>
<p>He not only fell to earth he had a great big thud.<br />
In other words his tendencies led to actions thus the need for help.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-157520</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-157520</guid>
		<description>"It looks like there's fallout from the Ted Haggard scandal at New Life church. Reliable sources at New Life Church confirm 30 to 50 employees have been laid off. They say the lay-offs are across the board from pastoral staff to part-time nursery workers and it's primarily a money saving move. After Ted Haggard resigned, they say attendance and church offerings at New Life have dropped. Now the church is making changes to live within its means. News First has confirmed that Ross Parsley, the interim Senior Pastor, was not let go. 
 
News First contacted New Life about an interview. They declined, saying they wanted to discuss this with their congregation before speaking to us." 

From http://www.koaa.com/news/view.asp?ID=6831</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It looks like there&#8217;s fallout from the Ted Haggard scandal at New Life church. Reliable sources at New Life Church confirm 30 to 50 employees have been laid off. They say the lay-offs are across the board from pastoral staff to part-time nursery workers and it&#8217;s primarily a money saving move. After Ted Haggard resigned, they say attendance and church offerings at New Life have dropped. Now the church is making changes to live within its means. News First has confirmed that Ross Parsley, the interim Senior Pastor, was not let go. </p>
<p>News First contacted New Life about an interview. They declined, saying they wanted to discuss this with their congregation before speaking to us.&#8221; </p>
<p>From <a href="http://www.koaa.com/news/view.asp?ID=6831" rel="nofollow">http://www.koaa.com/news/view.asp?ID=6831</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: wakey74</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-156592</link>
		<dc:creator>wakey74</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 04:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-156592</guid>
		<description>I was wondering which one of the overseers was able to pick up the first stone, as they do appear to be without sin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering which one of the overseers was able to pick up the first stone, as they do appear to be without sin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lance</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-156586</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 03:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-156586</guid>
		<description>"Overseers' letter to New Life congregation 

Here is a copy of the Feb. 18 letter from overseers to the congregation of New Life Church: 

Dear New Life family and friends, 

On November 1, 2006, we, as the Board of Overseers for this church, were called upon by the moral default of your former pastor. We have worked diligently since then to restore both Ted and New Life Church. 

Concerning Ted and his family, we have done extensive fact-finding into his lifelong battle with a “dark side” which he said in his confession letter has been a struggle for years. We have verified the reality of that struggle through numerous individuals who reported to us firsthand knowledge of everything from sordid conversation to overt suggestions to improper activities to improper relationships. These findings established a pattern of behavior that culminated in the final relationship in which Ted was, as a matter of grace, caught. We learned most of those circumstances through confidential pastoral communications that, because of their pastoral character, cannot be disclosed. However, it was the opinion of the Overseer Board and Restorer Board that our initial action of removing Ted from leadership was not only warranted, but also merciful to him and to the church. 

Some of you have wondered why Ted had to leave this church. You know that Ted had an enormous personality. As hard as this action appears, it is the considered and unanimous judgment of the Restorers and Overseers that Ted's presence is so large and his wrongful conduct so tangled that this church and its leadership would become distracted by his continuing presence. For the sake of Ted's restoration, it is best for him to move out of Colorado Springs for the recovery of his personal family life and his personal Christian life. 

Ted and Gayle have agreed to this counsel and are cooperating fully. 

After much prayer and consultation, and after seeking input from the Restorers and Overseers, the church’s Board of Trustees has fairly and compassionately decided to support the Haggard family throughout 2007. 

This act of Christian love will provide professional care, counseling, and the financial support they immediately need to continue in their journey of recovery. Ted and Gayle will soon relocate and find a local church to attend and other professional support in their new location. The Overseers and Restorers will continue to provide guidance and direction for Ted and his family. Also, the Trustees graciously provided the funds for Ted and Gayle to participate in 21 days of analysis and counseling that offered new insights consistent with our initial findings. That time of counseling was quite helpful to Ted and Gayle, and is simply the launching point by which years of counsel and fruits of true repentance may be demonstrated. 

There should be no confusion that deliverance from habitual, life-controlling problems is a “journey” and not an “event.” Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies. 

Concerning New Life and the church family, we have been most pleased with the quality of leadership we have witnessed in the elders, the trustees, and the senior staff. In addition, the entire staff of New Life is cooperative and amazing. This church has the potential of fulfilling its dream of “passion for God and compassion for people.” 

While our investigation is not complete, I can report that we have found a few staff members struggling with unrelated sin issues. Each such person has been confronted and has submitted to discipline. Based upon what we presently know, we believe that the general culture of this church today is Christ-centered and holy. This process has taken huge amounts of our time to interview, gather facts, and track down rumors. It is not finished. To our relief, we are finding no culture of immorality among the staff here as we might have initially expected. 

We, the Overseers, have committed ourselves to serve this church for the rest of the year of 2007. In that time, we will serve in an expanded role appointed by the Trustees as a spiritual “presbytery,” or a spiritual covering, to give the final word on all spiritual decisions and provide other guidance until a new pastor is confirmed by you as the congregation. 

On that day, our work will be through. In the meantime, we will work very closely with the executive pastoral team. They have all displayed outstanding character, responsibility and faithfulness. The Interim Pastor will consult with us on the day to day operations, which he will continue to oversee. 

The purpose of this continuing role for the Overseers is to provide additional outside stability. The senior pastoral staff has welcomed this development. It will allow adequate time, without pressure, for the Pastoral Selection Committee to consider potential candidates, both inside and outside the church, for the role of Senior Pastor. 

We have also recommended Pastor Chris Hodges to be the fifth member of the Board of Overseers. 

Joshua said, “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord…” (Josh. 24: 15). As we prepare ourselves for the Easter season, we all have a choice today: Will we live as captives of the past, the grave and sin, or will we shake ourselves, cleanse ourselves, and rise up to be a powerful new Body? The world, the nation, this community, and your families are watching how you respond to crisis: with courage and faithfulness or with cynicism and retreat. To this point, we have seen amazing evidence of the grace of God upon the wonderful family called “New Life Church.” “Where sin does abound, grace does much more abound,” and that means much grace is being poured out upon us right now! 

Pray fervently for the staff, as change, restructuring, and reorganization are inevitable. Like any army that suffers a setback, they re-focus, re-tool, and rebound. The Overseers will continue their work with the staff to do long-term master planning, speak in chapels to minister to and pastor the staff, and conduct final interviews to discover any sin that may be present. The Pastoral Selection committee will carefully work through all candidates both within and outside the Body of New Life until the Holy Spirit gives everyone the witness that the new leader has been found. 

When God judged the world in the time of Noah, Noah’s family entered the Ark. It was not until five months had gone by the waters began to decrease. It was after seven and a half months the first sign of the tops of the mountains appeared. It was not until one year and ten days had gone by that Noah and his family exited the Ark. 

In a similar way, we see the exposure of your pastor as the moment of judgment. Five months from that day will be Easter…seven and a half months will be Father’s Day…one year and ten days will be November 14th. Our encouragement to you today is, “Stay in the Ark.” 

The winds may howl, the storms may rage, and the Ark may drift but you are still safe within. We expect that by November of this year, all of you will step out into a “New Life” and a new world with the memories, disappointments, and judgments all behind. 

Join us in making 2007 a “Year of Faithfulness.” We will make it to the other side and Jesus will be exalted at New Life Church! 

Sincerely, 

The Overseers of New Life Church."


Some points to note there.

The overseers imply that they don't sin.

This appears to be a major difference between charismatic thinking..and Paul's declaration in Romans that all people sin and that none are righteous.

"Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies."

Tendencies? 

Don't Christians always harp on about the difference between orientation and acting out? (feelings vs. having a root).

Ted has to 'demonstrate' his 'victory' over tendencies..to be acceptable?

Thank God I left the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Overseers&#8217; letter to New Life congregation </p>
<p>Here is a copy of the Feb. 18 letter from overseers to the congregation of New Life Church: </p>
<p>Dear New Life family and friends, </p>
<p>On November 1, 2006, we, as the Board of Overseers for this church, were called upon by the moral default of your former pastor. We have worked diligently since then to restore both Ted and New Life Church. </p>
<p>Concerning Ted and his family, we have done extensive fact-finding into his lifelong battle with a “dark side” which he said in his confession letter has been a struggle for years. We have verified the reality of that struggle through numerous individuals who reported to us firsthand knowledge of everything from sordid conversation to overt suggestions to improper activities to improper relationships. These findings established a pattern of behavior that culminated in the final relationship in which Ted was, as a matter of grace, caught. We learned most of those circumstances through confidential pastoral communications that, because of their pastoral character, cannot be disclosed. However, it was the opinion of the Overseer Board and Restorer Board that our initial action of removing Ted from leadership was not only warranted, but also merciful to him and to the church. </p>
<p>Some of you have wondered why Ted had to leave this church. You know that Ted had an enormous personality. As hard as this action appears, it is the considered and unanimous judgment of the Restorers and Overseers that Ted&#8217;s presence is so large and his wrongful conduct so tangled that this church and its leadership would become distracted by his continuing presence. For the sake of Ted&#8217;s restoration, it is best for him to move out of Colorado Springs for the recovery of his personal family life and his personal Christian life. </p>
<p>Ted and Gayle have agreed to this counsel and are cooperating fully. </p>
<p>After much prayer and consultation, and after seeking input from the Restorers and Overseers, the church’s Board of Trustees has fairly and compassionately decided to support the Haggard family throughout 2007. </p>
<p>This act of Christian love will provide professional care, counseling, and the financial support they immediately need to continue in their journey of recovery. Ted and Gayle will soon relocate and find a local church to attend and other professional support in their new location. The Overseers and Restorers will continue to provide guidance and direction for Ted and his family. Also, the Trustees graciously provided the funds for Ted and Gayle to participate in 21 days of analysis and counseling that offered new insights consistent with our initial findings. That time of counseling was quite helpful to Ted and Gayle, and is simply the launching point by which years of counsel and fruits of true repentance may be demonstrated. </p>
<p>There should be no confusion that deliverance from habitual, life-controlling problems is a “journey” and not an “event.” Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies. </p>
<p>Concerning New Life and the church family, we have been most pleased with the quality of leadership we have witnessed in the elders, the trustees, and the senior staff. In addition, the entire staff of New Life is cooperative and amazing. This church has the potential of fulfilling its dream of “passion for God and compassion for people.” </p>
<p>While our investigation is not complete, I can report that we have found a few staff members struggling with unrelated sin issues. Each such person has been confronted and has submitted to discipline. Based upon what we presently know, we believe that the general culture of this church today is Christ-centered and holy. This process has taken huge amounts of our time to interview, gather facts, and track down rumors. It is not finished. To our relief, we are finding no culture of immorality among the staff here as we might have initially expected. </p>
<p>We, the Overseers, have committed ourselves to serve this church for the rest of the year of 2007. In that time, we will serve in an expanded role appointed by the Trustees as a spiritual “presbytery,” or a spiritual covering, to give the final word on all spiritual decisions and provide other guidance until a new pastor is confirmed by you as the congregation. </p>
<p>On that day, our work will be through. In the meantime, we will work very closely with the executive pastoral team. They have all displayed outstanding character, responsibility and faithfulness. The Interim Pastor will consult with us on the day to day operations, which he will continue to oversee. </p>
<p>The purpose of this continuing role for the Overseers is to provide additional outside stability. The senior pastoral staff has welcomed this development. It will allow adequate time, without pressure, for the Pastoral Selection Committee to consider potential candidates, both inside and outside the church, for the role of Senior Pastor. </p>
<p>We have also recommended Pastor Chris Hodges to be the fifth member of the Board of Overseers. </p>
<p>Joshua said, “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord…” (Josh. 24: 15). As we prepare ourselves for the Easter season, we all have a choice today: Will we live as captives of the past, the grave and sin, or will we shake ourselves, cleanse ourselves, and rise up to be a powerful new Body? The world, the nation, this community, and your families are watching how you respond to crisis: with courage and faithfulness or with cynicism and retreat. To this point, we have seen amazing evidence of the grace of God upon the wonderful family called “New Life Church.” “Where sin does abound, grace does much more abound,” and that means much grace is being poured out upon us right now! </p>
<p>Pray fervently for the staff, as change, restructuring, and reorganization are inevitable. Like any army that suffers a setback, they re-focus, re-tool, and rebound. The Overseers will continue their work with the staff to do long-term master planning, speak in chapels to minister to and pastor the staff, and conduct final interviews to discover any sin that may be present. The Pastoral Selection committee will carefully work through all candidates both within and outside the Body of New Life until the Holy Spirit gives everyone the witness that the new leader has been found. </p>
<p>When God judged the world in the time of Noah, Noah’s family entered the Ark. It was not until five months had gone by the waters began to decrease. It was after seven and a half months the first sign of the tops of the mountains appeared. It was not until one year and ten days had gone by that Noah and his family exited the Ark. </p>
<p>In a similar way, we see the exposure of your pastor as the moment of judgment. Five months from that day will be Easter…seven and a half months will be Father’s Day…one year and ten days will be November 14th. Our encouragement to you today is, “Stay in the Ark.” </p>
<p>The winds may howl, the storms may rage, and the Ark may drift but you are still safe within. We expect that by November of this year, all of you will step out into a “New Life” and a new world with the memories, disappointments, and judgments all behind. </p>
<p>Join us in making 2007 a “Year of Faithfulness.” We will make it to the other side and Jesus will be exalted at New Life Church! </p>
<p>Sincerely, </p>
<p>The Overseers of New Life Church.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some points to note there.</p>
<p>The overseers imply that they don&#8217;t sin.</p>
<p>This appears to be a major difference between charismatic thinking..and Paul&#8217;s declaration in Romans that all people sin and that none are righteous.</p>
<p>&#8220;Ted will need years of accountability to demonstrate his victory over both actions and tendencies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tendencies? </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t Christians always harp on about the difference between orientation and acting out? (feelings vs. having a root).</p>
<p>Ted has to &#8216;demonstrate&#8217; his &#8216;victory&#8217; over tendencies..to be acceptable?</p>
<p>Thank God I left the church.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg the explorer</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-156004</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg the explorer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 05:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-156004</guid>
		<description>Ted Haggard - keep up with the conversation or bow out Sanders</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted Haggard - keep up with the conversation or bow out Sanders</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sanders</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-155977</link>
		<dc:creator>Sanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 04:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-155977</guid>
		<description>Ted who?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted who?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: akevin</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-155972</link>
		<dc:creator>akevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 04:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-155972</guid>
		<description>According to the latest on Ted haggard he is pushing 6 degree's these days - BEWARE OF WINTER!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the latest on Ted haggard he is pushing 6 degree&#8217;s these days - BEWARE OF WINTER!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg the explorer</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-155971</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg the explorer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 03:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/11/06/of-sin-and-schadenfreude/#comment-155971</guid>
		<description>perhaps Ted though he was buying a crystal vase and was keeping it for some very special flowers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>perhaps Ted though he was buying a crystal vase and was keeping it for some very special flowers?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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