Of independence and theological training
On one of our threads, we came to be discussing “internal” theological training - that is training that is conducted by a church for the benefit of its members. As one who has undergone some theological training for my own development, I don’t profess a lot of direct knowledge of the inner workings of “internal” theological colleges, but I do nonetheless have a number of general concerns about such systems. I made this comment:
Foundation, I too have limited information about the inner workings of Hillsong college. However, I would own up to a real question mark about churches which create entirely internal systems for ministry training, ministry, mission etc and insulate themselves effectively from any external input or scrutiny.
This comes at least partly from my own experience at theological college which was formative for me precisely because it prompted me to critically re-evaluate the assumptions and inherited understanding of theology to see whether I really did actually believe all of those things I was taught over many years. Some of them I did, some of them I decided I would have to come up with more complex or nuanced understanding and some of them I determined were no longer things that I believed. I question the ability of an internal system to be able to take theological students through this process. Not that it can’t, simply that it would need to work hard to be able to impart this skill.
My second concern would be that such internal circular systems seem structurally to be prone to developing or supporting a particular set of doctrine/theological ideas/ways of thinking that everyone in the organisation must agree with. This is not in and of itself problematic, but it depends on every aspect of the system working well so that weaknesses (in doctrine, thought or motivation) do not become ingrained.
Foundation responded:
Dan, I’m not familiar with some of the terms you’re using actually.
“My second concern would be that such internal circular systems seem structurally to be prone to developing or supporting a particular set of doctrine/theological ideas/ways of thinking that everyone in the organisation must agree with.”Could you expand on that idea for me? I like what you’re saying.
I started to respond in the comments thread, but it got too long, so I have elevated it to a post here.
The terms I am using don’t have a particular meaning, but I will try to expand. I believe that having input from a diversity of positions on political, theological and moral issues is healthy for a faith community, because otherwise particular viewpoints and approaches can become entrenched. So the model goes like this - an interpretation or a viewpoint comes from the pastor or leader which the church member (who has come to faith there, or grown up there) accepts the authority and superior knowledge/training of the leader and agrees with it. As the church member becomes more and more involved, he or she decides to get further study and investigate issues more thoroughly, so he or she decides to go off to theological college.
If you go to an external training institution, even if the viewpoints are largely the same, they will be presented from a different point of view, or with a different emphasis, or chances are you will hear about some different viewpoints that are outside the culture and narrative of your faith community. Your lecturers and teachers have an authority which is independent from your church leaders - so you need to decide whose authority you respect more.
If you go to an internal theological college which is also under the ultimate leadership of the principal pastor or leader, then the theological college is going to present the same viewpoints and ideas as the principal leader. So rather than theological college being a process by which you are equipped to evaluate the things you hear at church, in community and in conversation, it merely becomes a reinforcement of what you have already been taught in your church community, with the added imprimatur of being stamped with a theological degree.
This is not unacceptable per se, but is risky. Because say some undesirable doctrine or theology becomes adopted or infiltrated into the system (for the sake of argument, let’s say prosperity theology). It gets taught in church, and then reinforced in theological college, and nobody is giving independent critical analysis of whether they agree with what is being preached and taught. So suddenly everyone in nameless church adopts this theology and those that are theoretically more authoritative (those who have done extra study) are even more likely to agree with this, because the people giving the extra study are under the authority of the people that have originally preached the objectionable doctrine.
The advantages to closed systems is obvious. It means that you can truly instill in people the ethos and heart of your faith community, what we have sometimes referred to as missional DNA (adopting Alan Hirsch’s language). However, I get back to the fact that one of the greatest benefits of theological study to me was developing my ability to critically evaluate my own views and the beliefs of others so that I no longer rested on my assumptions or an argument as simplistic as “the bible says so”.
So for others that have experienced theological study - what are your thoughts? What was the biggest benefit to you? What was the biggest weakness?

November 15th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
Dan this is a great topic. I will comment more on the weekend.
I don’t think it is worong for a CHurch to have an internal Bible College (is that any different to say Catholics or Lutheran’s having their own seminary to sevrvice the training of Pastors in their own denominations).
Of course any Church / denominationally controlled seminary will have its own bent and bias.
November 15th, 2006 at 10:41 pm
Of course though - the risks need to be manged…
November 16th, 2006 at 6:55 am
thank you Dan, for articulating my reasons for choosing a non-denominational college. For me, actually, it was a bit of a no-brainer, since I am an Anglican woman in Sydney who is definitely not a “Sydney Anglican”. Besides, Moore College only does degree level full time, and having family commitments, it suits me to be a part-time student. But I didn’t want to go anywhere where I would be expected to toe the line with one particular view point — I might have swallowed the need to know what is “right” when I was 20, because of my insecurities, but at 50 I have my own mind, my own life experiences, and it feels abusive when someone tells me I have to agree with what they think. I am 5/6 of the way through my BTh and I have been taught by Anglicans, Presbyterians, Charismatics, Pentecostals, Uniting Churchers etc. The student mix is even broader, including a couple of Catholics. Certain absolutes can be counted on, everyone upholds Christian basics (eg the basic doctrines of the Apostles creed), the authority of scripture (though with many different nuances of what that means) and the belief that the Holy Spirit is still active in the world today (again, with many different interpretations). Most other things are out there on the table for debate, and many of our assumptions are challenged by the fact that others have different assumptions, so we have to go back and examine why we believe and practice what we do — all in an atmosphere of mutual respect. I love it, and find it both challenging and affirming, but I notice that some students do not thrive in such an atmosphere, they find it too threatening, and those ones tend to leave and choose a denominational college instead. Some of us want to be taught how to think theologically, others want to be told what to think.
November 16th, 2006 at 8:37 am
is that any different to say Catholics or Lutheran’s having their own seminary to sevrvice the training of Pastors in their own denominations
I think that there are obviously questions of degree here. I would never suggest that you have to do theological study in a theological environment you already know does not match your belief. The theological college I attended was the Churches of Christ Theological College, so it is a part of our denomination.
However it still provided me with the tools to question and analyse my beliefs, and like blestpickle, I found that there were many non CofC people who attended there (eg we had quite a few brethren who attended for whatever reason) so there was a bit of a mix of thought.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
But Dan, you people don’t/refuse to baptise infants and that makes CofC a cult just like Hillsong doesn’t it…
November 16th, 2006 at 10:31 pm
You aren’t allowed to know the answer to that unless you go through the seven seals of wisdom - I will send you separately an email detailing the suggested donations.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
LOL!
November 17th, 2006 at 6:41 am
I went through the 7 seals of wisdom once - but some animal liberation group put and end to all that - bloody animal lovers - it was natural love, there was nothing sick about it.
November 17th, 2006 at 8:01 am
Has anyone else noticed an increase in the playing for laughs lately at signposts? What is this, a comedy club?
November 17th, 2006 at 8:07 am
Ok. Lets stop havng fun.
November 17th, 2006 at 8:31 am
Hey Lance, I think they want you in th ediscussion now.
November 17th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Thanks Dan. I’ve been around for a while, but have only been a ‘church’ Christian for about 3 years now so I don’t always get all the references. Thanks for expanding on that for me - you’re really opening my eyes.
November 19th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
Theology should never get a laugh? God laughs - a good joke brings us closer to God…a good joke…that’s where the plan falls down