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	<title>Comments on: Global warming is a moral issue.</title>
	<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/</link>
	<description>musings from those on the journey</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: signposts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Global warming is a solvable issue.</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156791</link>
		<dc:creator>signposts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Global warming is a solvable issue.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156791</guid>
		<description>[...] caring for those who are affected by disasters and being good stewards of all creation are moral issues. Thankfully, global warming is also a solvable [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] caring for those who are affected by disasters and being good stewards of all creation are moral issues. Thankfully, global warming is also a solvable [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156659</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156659</guid>
		<description>Mmmm....

Nick Minchin (finance minister) thinks we should be cautious about global warming because it hasn't been "proved", and cutting back on greenhouse emissions will damage Australia's economic growth. No... I don't think it's simply a beat up to generate economic growth.

Having said that... there is a niche market that stand to benefit from alleged global warming... anyone associated with "green energy" or energy efficient products, those who get into the "carbon trading" market... maybe even environment educators!!!!

Call me simple... but I think the EXPECTED result of doubling the levels of a significant greenhouse gas would be global warming... even taking into account the complexities of the atmosphere, local variations, the capacity of the oceans to absorb CO2 and other buffering mechanisms etc. To use a double negative... you would not expect this to have NO effect on global temperatures.

As stated earlier... I think the New Scientist review is a pretty fair assessment of the issue... science does not rest on "proof" but probabilities... some scientists urge caution and present evidence against global warming, but the weight of the research points in the other direction... the atmosphere really is getting hotter, which makes the air more humid, then water vapour (also a greenhouse gas) makes the atmosphere hotter... etc. etc.

"deflects scrutiny of our consumerist habits"....

Might it not also put the SPOTLIGHT on our consumerist habits... if our lifestyle is environmentally unsustainable, we need to reign it in for the sake of future generations, like it or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmm&#8230;.</p>
<p>Nick Minchin (finance minister) thinks we should be cautious about global warming because it hasn&#8217;t been &#8220;proved&#8221;, and cutting back on greenhouse emissions will damage Australia&#8217;s economic growth. No&#8230; I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s simply a beat up to generate economic growth.</p>
<p>Having said that&#8230; there is a niche market that stand to benefit from alleged global warming&#8230; anyone associated with &#8220;green energy&#8221; or energy efficient products, those who get into the &#8220;carbon trading&#8221; market&#8230; maybe even environment educators!!!!</p>
<p>Call me simple&#8230; but I think the EXPECTED result of doubling the levels of a significant greenhouse gas would be global warming&#8230; even taking into account the complexities of the atmosphere, local variations, the capacity of the oceans to absorb CO2 and other buffering mechanisms etc. To use a double negative&#8230; you would not expect this to have NO effect on global temperatures.</p>
<p>As stated earlier&#8230; I think the New Scientist review is a pretty fair assessment of the issue&#8230; science does not rest on &#8220;proof&#8221; but probabilities&#8230; some scientists urge caution and present evidence against global warming, but the weight of the research points in the other direction&#8230; the atmosphere really is getting hotter, which makes the air more humid, then water vapour (also a greenhouse gas) makes the atmosphere hotter&#8230; etc. etc.</p>
<p>&#8220;deflects scrutiny of our consumerist habits&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
<p>Might it not also put the SPOTLIGHT on our consumerist habits&#8230; if our lifestyle is environmentally unsustainable, we need to reign it in for the sake of future generations, like it or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Think Christian &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The injustice of global warming</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156653</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Christian &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The injustice of global warming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156653</guid>
		<description>[...] only targets threatened by the changing climate. Global warming is very much a human rights issue. This post at Signposts explains just why global warming is a moral issue (ht: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] only targets threatened by the changing climate. Global warming is very much a human rights issue. This post at Signposts explains just why global warming is a moral issue (ht: [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Grace Required</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156638</link>
		<dc:creator>Grace Required</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156638</guid>
		<description>Warning I am really tired and it is possible that none of the following makes any sense.

I think that the focus on global warming while worthy actually deflects scrutiny of our consumerist habits.  Or should I say the drive in the macro economic arena for producivity to always be upwards.  If as predicted global population growth reaches a peak around 2070 somewhere in the following decades consumption may actually start to decline.  This kinda puts a spanner in the works of ever increasing GDP.  A world crisis whatever it may be Tsunami, war, hurricane increases GDP.  So focusing on a crisis of Global warming increases National GDP.  Am I a cynical conspiracy theorist. Heck No.

I just think that what Jack-of-it described about the Egyptian pharohs in Shall we sign could be at play here.  May I join with Pilate and ask "What is truth"? About Global warming? I don't know.  Just take pause and keep an open mind.  Can I say I am stating this from a view that I am actually paid money to educate people about the environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warning I am really tired and it is possible that none of the following makes any sense.</p>
<p>I think that the focus on global warming while worthy actually deflects scrutiny of our consumerist habits.  Or should I say the drive in the macro economic arena for producivity to always be upwards.  If as predicted global population growth reaches a peak around 2070 somewhere in the following decades consumption may actually start to decline.  This kinda puts a spanner in the works of ever increasing GDP.  A world crisis whatever it may be Tsunami, war, hurricane increases GDP.  So focusing on a crisis of Global warming increases National GDP.  Am I a cynical conspiracy theorist. Heck No.</p>
<p>I just think that what Jack-of-it described about the Egyptian pharohs in Shall we sign could be at play here.  May I join with Pilate and ask &#8220;What is truth&#8221;? About Global warming? I don&#8217;t know.  Just take pause and keep an open mind.  Can I say I am stating this from a view that I am actually paid money to educate people about the environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156604</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 05:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156604</guid>
		<description>There's one simple scientific fact in this that noone's actually arguing about.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

The levels of CO2 in the atmosphere have more than doubled since the start of the industrial revolution.

It would not be too surprising if this caused the atmosphere to become warmer.

The argument is really over the extent to which a complex system is able to buffer itself against change... which it can do to some extent (eg the oceans can dissolve higher levels of CO2... although this does effect their pH)... how much it is able to do so is up for dispute.

When in doubt, preserve homeostasis... especially when there's a lot at stake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s one simple scientific fact in this that noone&#8217;s actually arguing about.</p>
<p>CO2 is a greenhouse gas.</p>
<p>The levels of CO2 in the atmosphere have more than doubled since the start of the industrial revolution.</p>
<p>It would not be too surprising if this caused the atmosphere to become warmer.</p>
<p>The argument is really over the extent to which a complex system is able to buffer itself against change&#8230; which it can do to some extent (eg the oceans can dissolve higher levels of CO2&#8230; although this does effect their pH)&#8230; how much it is able to do so is up for dispute.</p>
<p>When in doubt, preserve homeostasis&#8230; especially when there&#8217;s a lot at stake.</p>
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		<title>By: akevin</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156501</link>
		<dc:creator>akevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 17:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156501</guid>
		<description>tulsapro - As we rednecks neo-cons would say...YUP!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tulsapro - As we rednecks neo-cons would say&#8230;YUP!</p>
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		<title>By: Tulsapro</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156492</link>
		<dc:creator>Tulsapro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156492</guid>
		<description>I agree.  Even if one disagrees that the data is indicating global warming, as a good number do, there is no reason to continue to pollute.  

Even if there is no global warming, it makes no sense to ignore the need to change our behavior.  The fact is that we are harming the environment and health by putting chemicals in our food, air and water.  

Personally, I believe there are other factors that could cause global warming other than man made.  It's very likely we may be in a warming cycle.  We could be experiencing a global response to earth rotation changes.  However, why pollute the air and water when it's in our interest to develop clean alternatives?  

In any case we are in for a wild ride on this orbiting ball we call earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.  Even if one disagrees that the data is indicating global warming, as a good number do, there is no reason to continue to pollute.  </p>
<p>Even if there is no global warming, it makes no sense to ignore the need to change our behavior.  The fact is that we are harming the environment and health by putting chemicals in our food, air and water.  </p>
<p>Personally, I believe there are other factors that could cause global warming other than man made.  It&#8217;s very likely we may be in a warming cycle.  We could be experiencing a global response to earth rotation changes.  However, why pollute the air and water when it&#8217;s in our interest to develop clean alternatives?  </p>
<p>In any case we are in for a wild ride on this orbiting ball we call earth.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156476</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156476</guid>
		<description>"so much controversy and no proof of this theory."

This is the problem with science... people think it can provide watertight "proof" about incredibly complex phenomena... what it is best at doing is presenting probabilities... 

I notice Nick Minchin today was carrying on about how we shouldn't "over react" to the threat of global warming because it hasn't been "proved" at it may damage growth to our economy.

Proof is such a tricky thing... some would still be shouting: "This is possibly simply part of a natural weather cycle" as the water lapped around their feet.

The fact is that the majority of scientists conducting research in this area believe man-made causes are contributing to a significant rise in global temperatures and the result may be catastrophic... especially to people in low-lying areas.

We take precautions based on probabilities all the time in life... insurance, locking your house, embarking on a degree... etc. etc. The stakes are really high if the majority scientific view is right... high enough that some sacrifice is called for IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;so much controversy and no proof of this theory.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the problem with science&#8230; people think it can provide watertight &#8220;proof&#8221; about incredibly complex phenomena&#8230; what it is best at doing is presenting probabilities&#8230; </p>
<p>I notice Nick Minchin today was carrying on about how we shouldn&#8217;t &#8220;over react&#8221; to the threat of global warming because it hasn&#8217;t been &#8220;proved&#8221; at it may damage growth to our economy.</p>
<p>Proof is such a tricky thing&#8230; some would still be shouting: &#8220;This is possibly simply part of a natural weather cycle&#8221; as the water lapped around their feet.</p>
<p>The fact is that the majority of scientists conducting research in this area believe man-made causes are contributing to a significant rise in global temperatures and the result may be catastrophic&#8230; especially to people in low-lying areas.</p>
<p>We take precautions based on probabilities all the time in life&#8230; insurance, locking your house, embarking on a degree&#8230; etc. etc. The stakes are really high if the majority scientific view is right&#8230; high enough that some sacrifice is called for IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Tulsapro</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156441</link>
		<dc:creator>Tulsapro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156441</guid>
		<description>Ah Janet, so much controversy and no proof of this theory.  However, one little verse of scripture always comes to mind.

Revelation 7:1-3

1 After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 

2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 

3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”
~ 
Though we must steward and manage our resources, isn't it then interesting that in spite of our efforts, in the final analysis there will be suffering?

There in still no excuse for letting mismanagement go unhindered, but in the end, there is nothing that will prevent it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah Janet, so much controversy and no proof of this theory.  However, one little verse of scripture always comes to mind.</p>
<p>Revelation 7:1-3</p>
<p>1 After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. </p>
<p>2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, </p>
<p>3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”<br />
~<br />
Though we must steward and manage our resources, isn&#8217;t it then interesting that in spite of our efforts, in the final analysis there will be suffering?</p>
<p>There in still no excuse for letting mismanagement go unhindered, but in the end, there is nothing that will prevent it.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156435</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/15/global-warming-is-a-moral-issue/#comment-156435</guid>
		<description>Je ne comrende pas.

Parlez-vous Francais?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Je ne comrende pas.</p>
<p>Parlez-vous Francais?</p>
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