Comments on: Jesus tomb? http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/ musings from those on the journey Sat, 29 Nov 2008 03:10:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/#comment-157255 Janet Thu, 01 Mar 2007 09:33:29 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/#comment-157255 No offence, Jebus, but Ron Wyatt makes Dan Brown look like a credible scholar by comparison... which is some feat. That's just wacko. No offence, Jebus, but Ron Wyatt makes Dan Brown look like a credible scholar by comparison… which is some feat. That’s just wacko.

]]> By: Jebus http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/#comment-157249 Jebus Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:28:23 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/#comment-157249 The following partial book review is more about the actual discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, than the tomb where Jesus was temporarily buried, but it is an indication that the Garden Tomb, near Golgotha, is the probable site. "The author gives the account of an amateur biblical archaeologist by the name of Ron Wyatt. In 1978 he was strolling near the Calvary escarpment, on the land owned by the man who was with him, who was a local official connected with archaeology. Suddenly, involuntarily, Ron began pointing and speaking, saying that that was where Jeremiah’s grotto and the Ark of the Covenant were, even though he had no previous knowledge of its whereabouts. The response of the official was to immediately offer him a permit to excavate his land, with use of equipment, and supplies, provided. Shortly afterward, a head of the Department of Antiquities, completely against general policy, offered and granted Ron an official exploratory permit, which was usually only ever given to full-time archaeologists, with renowned institutional sponsorship. Cutting a long account relatively short … after returning home to research the credibility of the Ark being where his arm had pointed, Ron and his team began excavating at that site a year later. Because of the accumulation of soil, rubble and rubbish, they had to dig down against the cliff face for several yards. But what they uncovered was exciting and unexpected. Just as there is no real proof that the Garden Tomb was actually the temporary burial site of Jesus, but many are convinced that it is, so the first things that he found could not be absolutely proved, even though coins, pottery etc. found during his excavation, gave evidence of the right time frame. First of all they found three niches chiselled out in the cliff face, then going a few yards deeper they found the remains of a wall of a building that was right against the cliff face. Out of this wall jutted what appeared to be a stone altar table, and immediately below that, almost under it, they found a stone plug protectively covering a hole that was roughly a foot [30cm] square and two feet [60cm] deep. The hole had been chiselled into a bedrock platform which came out about 8 feet [2.4m] from the cliff face. Extending outward and downward from the hole was a crack which appeared to have been made by an earthquake “…and the earth quaked and the rocks were split.” [Matthew 27:51] Digging down a few more feet in front of the bedrock platform, they hit another bedrock floor, and this time found three holes chiselled out, in a row, like the one above. But they had not been plugged. The foundations of the rest of the building surrounded their findings. They extended out from the cliff face about 40 feet [12m], and were about 22 feet [6.6m] wide. Within the ruins they were only able to partly uncover a 2 feet [60cm] thick, very large, round stone. The pile of soil on top of it deterred them from investigating further at that time, but some time later, after it had all been covered over again, by order of the Department of Antiquities, they used sub-surface radar to discover that that stone was 13 feet 2 inches [3.95m] in diameter, and would have fitted perfectly over the face of the Garden tomb. In the time of Jesus the main travel route to Samaria “passed by” that area, and that made it a very public place for the Romans to make an example of lawbreakers, as a deterrent to others. Therefore it is very likely that Jesus was crucified near the base of Golgotha, rather than on top of it as some have previously presumed. “And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads” [Matthew 27:39] If the cross of Jesus had been placed in the hole on the top level of the bedrock that they found, [as the “main feature” of the crucifixion], and if the two thieves’ crosses were placed in the two outside holes on the lower level, viewed from the front, one would have been on the left, and the other on the right of Jesus. ”Then two robbers were crucified with Him, one on the right and another on the left.” [Matthew 27:38] Also as Jonathan Gray points out, if signs, stating that Jesus was King of the Jews, were written in Greek, Hebrew and Latin, they would have had to be large enough to be seen from the highway, and therefore too large to be attached to the cross. Ron Wyatt deduced that the three niches they found had therefore been chiselled out to hold signs in three languages, stating the crimes of anyone who had been crucified there. Jonathan Gray suggested that the same Greek word that was translated as having the signs “on” the cross in John, was better translated [as in Luke] as “above” or “over”. “And an inscription also was written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew: ‘This is the King of the Jews’” [Luke 23:38] Being a sacred site to the first Christians, it is reasonable to expect that they would make an altar at the place of Christ’s sacrifice, and build a church around it, containing the stone that had been rolled away to reveal the empty tomb. Following those discoveries Ron’s team continued to search for the Ark. After three years of tunnelling, and an angelic visitation to allay the discouragement, they discovered a chamber with what seemed to be a pile of rocks in it, but when his flashlight caught something shiny under them, he began to move them aside, bit by bit. Under the rocks he found dry-rotted boards, and under them remains of dry rotted skins, no doubt having been relatively preserved because they were so far underground. When he touched the skins they disintegrated, but under them he found a gold veneered table with a raised moulding, decorated with bells and pomegranates, around its edge. He believed it to be the table of shewbread. Crawling over the top of the other stones, with very little space to move, Ron discovered a large thin-walled stone case, with a flat stone lid which had been split in two, and the smaller part had been moved aside. Because there was only about 5 inches [125mm] of clearance between the lid and the ceiling of the chamber, Ron couldn’t see directly inside, but “knew” in his heart, that he had finally found what he was looking for, because the Lord had told him that he would. Immediately above the split in the stone lid, the ceiling had a crack in it. Around the crack was a black substance, which apparently had also dropped through the gap into the stone case, because some more was splashed on the lid. Suddenly he realised that it may have been the remnant of the blood of Jesus, which had also been relatively preserved, and also could see why it was important for him to first find the crucifixion site, and the earthquake crack at the first cross hole, [several feet above the chamber]. It overwhelmed him, and he fainted. When he regained consciousness, he left, but didn’t immediately tell the authorities, [although he told some people ~ how could he keep that to himself?!]. Returning later, Ron poked a metal tape measure up through the crack in the chamber ceiling. They found that it extended upwards, through 20 feet [6m] of solid rock, and, indeed, came out right at the first cross hole, the one which had the protective stone plug. Apparently while Jesus was on the cross, His inability to breathe properly, and the strain on His heart, would have caused fair quantity of fluid and blood to accumulate in and around it. [Interestingly, one of the symptoms of internal bleeding is thirst]. “After this, Jesus …said ‘I thirst’” [John 19:28] Presumably, after the Lord died, and after the earthquake had opened a channel down through the bedrock to the hidden chamber below, and split the lid of the stone case open, the Roman soldier pierced the Lord’s side, rupturing the chest cavity and heart, releasing enough water and blood to flow downwards onto the mercy seat. It puts a whole new angle on the hymn “Rock of Ages, cleft for me, let me hide myself in Thee, Let the water and the blood [from Your wounded side] which flowed, Be of sin the double cure. Cleanse me from its guilt and power. “Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, ... and sprinkle [the blood] on the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat. So he shall make atonement ... for all their sins ... ” [Leviticus 16:15,16] “I [Jesus] did not come to destroy [the law] but to fulfill [it]” [Matthew 5:17] Ron attempted to gain photographic evidence of the Ark, but every photo and video turned out “foggy”, although the outlines could be seen. However, he was later able to make a small hole in the stone case, through which he inserted an endoscope, and was able to see enough of the contents to confirm to himself that it was the Ark. He said that the wings of the Cherubim form what appears to be the back and armrests of a throne. The Most Holy Place was God’s throne room on earth; His shekinah glory hovered over the mercy seat. Ron was able to confidently identify other pieces of temple furniture too. But other articles found, were open to speculation, including a 5 ft sword, which he thought was possibly the one which slaid Goliath. He presumed there must be a hidden tunnel which leads from the temple mount to the site. To take the larger items out again, they would have to be removed the same way they went in. When he finally reported his discoveries to the Israeli authorities, he also presented them with something [unnamed in the book] that convinced them that he had found items from the first temple. They asked him to keep his discoveries quiet, but he couldn’t “untell” those who had already heard. He was asked to completely restore the above ground area to its former appearance. Only a select few in Israeli officialdom were informed of the discovery, so when some people heard rumours, and made inquiries, they were given no information, or it was denied. Because of that Ron Wyatt was discredited as a fake, by other archaeologists, and by some newspapers and magazines. But the authorities who were informed, after a while, tested public reaction through a newspaper article, which apparently posed a question to the effect of what would be done if the Ark of the Covenant was discovered. The reaction was explosive; on 8 October 1990, the Zionists began to march on to temple mount, then the Arabs gathered in the Al Aqsa mosque compound and began raining stones down on the demonstrators and Jews at the wailing wall. The Palestinian uprising has been increasing ever since. The Lord apparently told Ron that the Ark would be recovered at an appointed time. “The Ark of the Covenant” [ISBN 0-646-30073-3], published and written by Jonathan Gray, [P.O. Box 3370, Rundle Mall, 5000, South Australia] The following partial book review is more about the actual discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, than the tomb where Jesus was temporarily buried, but it is an indication that the Garden Tomb, near Golgotha, is the probable site.
“The author gives the account of an amateur biblical archaeologist by the name of Ron Wyatt. In 1978 he was strolling near the Calvary escarpment, on the land owned by the man who was with him, who was a local official connected with archaeology. Suddenly, involuntarily, Ron began pointing and speaking, saying that that was where Jeremiah’s grotto and the Ark of the Covenant were, even though he had no previous knowledge of its whereabouts. The response of the official was to immediately offer him a permit to excavate his land, with use of equipment, and supplies, provided.
Shortly afterward, a head of the Department of Antiquities, completely against general policy, offered and granted Ron an official exploratory permit, which was usually only ever given to full-time archaeologists, with renowned institutional sponsorship.
Cutting a long account relatively short … after returning home to research the credibility of the Ark being where his arm had pointed, Ron and his team began excavating at that site a year later. Because of the accumulation of soil, rubble and rubbish, they had to dig down against the cliff face for several yards. But what they uncovered was exciting and unexpected. Just as there is no real proof that the Garden Tomb was actually the temporary burial site of Jesus, but many are convinced that it is, so the first things that he found could not be absolutely proved, even though coins, pottery etc. found during his excavation, gave evidence of the right time frame.
First of all they found three niches chiselled out in the cliff face, then going a few yards deeper they found the remains of a wall of a building that was right against the cliff face. Out of this wall jutted what appeared to be a stone altar table, and immediately below that, almost under it, they found a stone plug protectively covering a hole that was roughly a foot [30cm] square and two feet [60cm] deep. The hole had been chiselled into a bedrock platform which came out about 8 feet [2.4m] from the cliff face. Extending outward and downward from the hole was a crack which appeared to have been made by an earthquake “…and the earth quaked and the rocks were split.” [Matthew 27:51]
Digging down a few more feet in front of the bedrock platform, they hit another bedrock floor, and this time found three holes chiselled out, in a row, like the one above. But they had not been plugged. The foundations of the rest of the building surrounded their findings. They extended out from the cliff face about 40 feet [12m], and were about 22 feet [6.6m] wide. Within the ruins they were only able to partly uncover a 2 feet [60cm] thick, very large, round stone. The pile of soil on top of it deterred them from investigating further at that time, but some time later, after it had all been covered over again, by order of the Department of Antiquities, they used sub-surface radar to discover that that stone was 13 feet 2 inches [3.95m] in diameter, and would have fitted perfectly over the face of the Garden tomb.
In the time of Jesus the main travel route to Samaria “passed by” that area, and that made it a very public place for the Romans to make an example of lawbreakers, as a deterrent to others. Therefore it is very likely that Jesus was crucified near the base of Golgotha, rather than on top of it as some have previously presumed. “And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads” [Matthew 27:39]
If the cross of Jesus had been placed in the hole on the top level of the bedrock that they found, [as the “main feature” of the crucifixion], and if the two thieves’ crosses were placed in the two outside holes on the lower level, viewed from the front, one would have been on the left, and the other on the right of Jesus. ”Then two robbers were crucified with Him, one on the right and another on the left.” [Matthew 27:38]
Also as Jonathan Gray points out, if signs, stating that Jesus was King of the Jews, were written in Greek, Hebrew and Latin, they would have had to be large enough to be seen from the highway, and therefore too large to be attached to the cross. Ron Wyatt deduced that the three niches they found had therefore been chiselled out to hold signs in three languages, stating the crimes of anyone who had been crucified there. Jonathan Gray suggested that the same Greek word that was translated as having the signs “on” the cross in John, was better translated [as in Luke] as “above” or “over”. “And an inscription also was written over Him in letters of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew: ‘This is the King of the Jews’” [Luke 23:38]
Being a sacred site to the first Christians, it is reasonable to expect that they would make an altar at the place of Christ’s sacrifice, and build a church around it, containing the stone that had been rolled away to reveal the empty tomb.
Following those discoveries Ron’s team continued to search for the Ark. After three years of tunnelling, and an angelic visitation to allay the discouragement, they discovered a chamber with what seemed to be a pile of rocks in it, but when his flashlight caught something shiny under them, he began to move them aside, bit by bit. Under the rocks he found dry-rotted boards, and under them remains of dry rotted skins, no doubt having been relatively preserved because they were so far underground.
When he touched the skins they disintegrated, but under them he found a gold veneered table with a raised moulding, decorated with bells and pomegranates, around its edge. He believed it to be the table of shewbread. Crawling over the top of the other stones, with very little space to move, Ron discovered a large thin-walled stone case, with a flat stone lid which had been split in two, and the smaller part had been moved aside. Because there was only about 5 inches [125mm] of clearance between the lid and the ceiling of the chamber, Ron couldn’t see directly inside, but “knew” in his heart, that he had finally found what he was looking for, because the Lord had told him that he would.
Immediately above the split in the stone lid, the ceiling had a crack in it. Around the crack was a black substance, which apparently had also dropped through the gap into the stone case, because some more was splashed on the lid. Suddenly he realised that it may have been the remnant of the blood of Jesus, which had also been relatively preserved, and also could see why it was important for him to first find the crucifixion site, and the earthquake crack at the first cross hole, [several feet above the chamber]. It overwhelmed him, and he fainted.
When he regained consciousness, he left, but didn’t immediately tell the authorities, [although he told some people ~ how could he keep that to himself?!]. Returning later, Ron poked a metal tape measure up through the crack in the chamber ceiling. They found that it extended upwards, through 20 feet [6m] of solid rock, and, indeed, came out right at the first cross hole, the one which had the protective stone plug.
Apparently while Jesus was on the cross, His inability to breathe properly, and the strain on His heart, would have caused fair quantity of fluid and blood to accumulate in and around it. [Interestingly, one of the symptoms of internal bleeding is thirst]. “After this, Jesus …said ‘I thirst’” [John 19:28]
Presumably, after the Lord died, and after the earthquake had opened a channel down through the bedrock to the hidden chamber below, and split the lid of the stone case open, the Roman soldier pierced the Lord’s side, rupturing the chest cavity and heart, releasing enough water and blood to flow downwards onto the mercy seat. It puts a whole new angle on the hymn
“Rock of Ages, cleft for me, let me hide myself in Thee,
Let the water and the blood
[from Your wounded side] which flowed,
Be of sin the double cure. Cleanse me from its guilt and power.
“Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, … and sprinkle [the blood] on the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat. So he shall make atonement … for all their sins … ” [Leviticus 16:15,16]
“I [Jesus] did not come to destroy [the law] but to fulfill [it]” [Matthew 5:17]
Ron attempted to gain photographic evidence of the Ark, but every photo and video turned out “foggy”, although the outlines could be seen. However, he was later able to make a small hole in the stone case, through which he inserted an endoscope, and was able to see enough of the contents to confirm to himself that it was the Ark. He said that the wings of the Cherubim form what appears to be the back and armrests of a throne. The Most Holy Place was God’s throne room on earth; His shekinah glory hovered over the mercy seat.
Ron was able to confidently identify other pieces of temple furniture too. But other articles found, were open to speculation, including a 5 ft sword, which he thought was possibly the one which slaid Goliath. He presumed there must be a hidden tunnel which leads from the temple mount to the site. To take the larger items out again, they would have to be removed the same way they went in.
When he finally reported his discoveries to the Israeli authorities, he also presented them with something [unnamed in the book] that convinced them that he had found items from the first temple. They asked him to keep his discoveries quiet, but he couldn’t “untell” those who had already heard. He was asked to completely restore the above ground area to its former appearance. Only a select few in Israeli officialdom were informed of the discovery, so when some people heard rumours, and made inquiries, they were given no information, or it was denied. Because of that Ron Wyatt was discredited as a fake, by other archaeologists, and by some newspapers and magazines.
But the authorities who were informed, after a while, tested public reaction through a newspaper article, which apparently posed a question to the effect of what would be done if the Ark of the Covenant was discovered. The reaction was explosive; on 8 October 1990, the Zionists began to march on to temple mount, then the Arabs gathered in the Al Aqsa mosque compound and began raining stones down on the demonstrators and Jews at the wailing wall. The Palestinian uprising has been increasing ever since. The Lord apparently told Ron that the Ark would be recovered at an appointed time.

“The Ark of the Covenant” [ISBN 0-646-30073-3], published and written by Jonathan Gray, [P.O. Box 3370, Rundle Mall, 5000, South Australia]

]]> By: Janet http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/#comment-157239 Janet Thu, 01 Mar 2007 06:53:23 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/#comment-157239 Well Dan Brown made a gazillion dollars from this, so I guess they thought it worth a shot! Ah, capitalism at work. As the article says... very common names of the day, big deal. It would be like someone in 2000 years time finding a tombstone labelled Bill and Hilary and concluding... ah ha! The REAL burial site of an ex-president of the United States. It's just hard to fathom how the real Jesus movement would have started in the way it did if Jesus was some happily married bloke in the first century... rather than the radical itinerant prophet who Rome saw fit to crucify... who then inspired his followers to martyrdom for their belief in Jesus Christ as crucified Saviour and risen Lord. Appealing as it is to some that the gospels, the epistles and all the writings of the early church fathers were some kind of giant conspiracy to hush up the "real truth" about the happily married Jesus, it just doesn't add up... this conspiracy theory has holes you could drive a Mac truck through. The DaVinci code was a fun read though, in it's own improbable way! Well Dan Brown made a gazillion dollars from this, so I guess they thought it worth a shot! Ah, capitalism at work.

As the article says… very common names of the day, big deal. It would be like someone in 2000 years time finding a tombstone labelled Bill and Hilary and concluding… ah ha! The REAL burial site of an ex-president of the United States.

It’s just hard to fathom how the real Jesus movement would have started in the way it did if Jesus was some happily married bloke in the first century… rather than the radical itinerant prophet who Rome saw fit to crucify… who then inspired his followers to martyrdom for their belief in Jesus Christ as crucified Saviour and risen Lord.

Appealing as it is to some that the gospels, the epistles and all the writings of the early church fathers were some kind of giant conspiracy to hush up the “real truth” about the happily married Jesus, it just doesn’t add up… this conspiracy theory has holes you could drive a Mac truck through.

The DaVinci code was a fun read though, in it’s own improbable way!

]]> By: Toddy http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/#comment-157220 Toddy Thu, 01 Mar 2007 04:24:08 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/02/27/jesus-tomb-2/#comment-157220 "according to the film’s producers" The guy is trying to sell a book. He could at least pick a topic that if different from Dan Browns... I agree - too much davinci code, too much sensationalism (I read that it is the 'biggest archeological find of the 20th Century!). If you're grumpy, then so am I. “according to the film’s producers”
The guy is trying to sell a book. He could at least pick a topic that if different from Dan Browns…

I agree - too much davinci code, too much sensationalism (I read that it is the ‘biggest archeological find of the 20th Century!).
If you’re grumpy, then so am I.

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