Comments on: The Dark Side http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/ musings from those on the journey Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:52:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Lance http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172093 Lance Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:43:04 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172093 I think being given tax breaks/exemptions bolsters this mindset that 'the normal rules don't apply to us'. I think being given tax breaks/exemptions bolsters this mindset that ‘the normal rules don’t apply to us’.

]]> By: daisy http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172073 daisy Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:07:05 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172073 I have seen and heard stories that are far more serious examples of "the ends justify the means". Actually I have observed leadership 'behaviour' that would curdle your stomach. I remind myself that Christ has also observed these actions and He alone knows the motives of the heart. However, I believe there will be interesting days ahead. I have held the thought for a long time now, that windows of mercy have been available to many denominations over years; windows that allow church leadership opportunities take responsibility, to do all within their power, in a spirit of repentance and humility, to 'put right', in ways that respect people, serious injustices that have occurred within church or church related settings. Alas, this rarely occurs. What seems more common is this: Leadership that refuses those opportunities, opportunities which are usually many, seem to get (finally) dragged into the bright lights of the public arena. The skeletons in the closets are exposed, all is laid bare. No denomination is immune, no matter how much they believe "the rules don't apply". After refusing to act freely and with integrity, usually then comes the public judgement. It is a pattern I have seen repeated over and over and seems to be increasing since the early 1990's. Denominations with a "rules don't apply" mentality, may think they are immune but recent history has shown us otherwise and ultimately I believe Christ will have His way with all organisations that proclaim His name, but abuse His people. Leadership comes with heavy biblical responsibilities- verses which in these days seem to have been forgotten. Christ has not forgotten. I have seen and heard stories that are far more serious examples of “the ends justify the means”.
Actually I have observed leadership ‘behaviour’ that would curdle your stomach.
I remind myself that Christ has also observed these actions and He alone knows the motives of the heart. However, I believe there will be interesting days ahead.
I have held the thought for a long time now, that windows of mercy have been available to many denominations over years; windows that allow church leadership opportunities take responsibility, to do all within their power, in a spirit of repentance and humility, to ‘put right’, in ways that respect people, serious injustices that have occurred within church or church related settings. Alas, this rarely occurs.
What seems more common is this:
Leadership that refuses those opportunities, opportunities which are usually many, seem to get (finally) dragged into the bright lights of the public arena. The skeletons in the closets are exposed, all is laid bare.
No denomination is immune, no matter how much they believe “the rules don’t apply”.
After refusing to act freely and with integrity, usually then comes the public judgement. It is a pattern I have seen repeated over and over and seems to be increasing since the early 1990’s.
Denominations with a “rules don’t apply” mentality, may think they are immune but recent history has shown us otherwise and ultimately I believe Christ will have His way with all organisations that proclaim His name, but abuse His people. Leadership comes with heavy biblical responsibilities- verses which in these days seem to have been forgotten. Christ has not forgotten.

]]> By: Emma Whale http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172071 Emma Whale Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:28:00 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172071 yes I agree. The "rules don't apply" mentality seemed to crop up a fair bit in youth leadership. For example...on youth camps the kids were not allowed to leave the campsite (fait enough) but neither were "junior leaders" who were often in their mid twenties with jobs and obligations. That's fine, but then came the day when I saw the youth pastor sneaking off with his fiance beacuse they wanted to go look at their house that was being built (there were no pressing obligations btw) while still telling everyone else that the rule was no one else could leave. A silly petty example, but I saw it a lot. yes I agree. The “rules don’t apply” mentality seemed to crop up a fair bit in youth leadership. For example…on youth camps the kids were not allowed to leave the campsite (fait enough) but neither were “junior leaders” who were often in their mid twenties with jobs and obligations. That’s fine, but then came the day when I saw the youth pastor sneaking off with his fiance beacuse they wanted to go look at their house that was being built (there were no pressing obligations btw) while still telling everyone else that the rule was no one else could leave.

A silly petty example, but I saw it a lot.

]]> By: daisy http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172070 daisy Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:22:29 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172070 Correction prevalent x2 (apologies) Correction prevalent x2 (apologies)

]]> By: daisy http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172068 daisy Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:18:23 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172068 I found the culture of "the ends justify the means" - to be fairly previlant. "The greater good" - is also previlant and problematic. There seems to be a mindset that individuals who experience serious injustice are supposed to 'remain silent' & 'why can't they just forget, forgive and move on with their lives'. This kind of thinking and attitude shows a deep level of ignorance about the dynamics and impacts any kind of abuse can have on people. Basically it's about saving face, saving money (on litigation) and saving reputation in the public arena. I do not believe Christ will tolerate this kind of attitude and the accompanying determential behaviours in ANY denomination forever...... I found the culture of “the ends justify the means” - to be fairly previlant.
“The greater good” - is also previlant and problematic.
There seems to be a mindset that individuals who experience serious injustice are supposed to ‘remain silent’ & ‘why can’t they just forget, forgive and move on with their lives’.
This kind of thinking and attitude shows a deep level of ignorance about the dynamics and impacts any kind of abuse can have on people.
Basically it’s about saving face, saving money (on litigation) and saving reputation in the public arena.
I do not believe Christ will tolerate this kind of attitude and the accompanying determential behaviours in ANY denomination forever……

]]> By: Emma Whale http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172066 Emma Whale Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:59:27 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172066 Just near where I live we have the St John's brotherhood which has been around forever - it's mostly a mental hospital now - and they've done a lot of good but a "whistelblower nun" has just come out with countless evidence and cases of pedophilia over something like 30 years. She issued a press release and what struck me were 2 things. Firstly she said the brotherhood had perpetrated a conspiracy of silence (not exactly her words but that was the gist of it), brothers who committed the acts were "warehoused" and victims were bought off. Secondly, there was a mindset that exists that they are somehow "above the law" that because they're called to the "Greater Good" the normal mores don't apply. Sound familiar? A few times I have thought the worst aspects of the AOG are like the worst aspects of the kind of abuse that was inherent in the Catholic Church some years ago...I know other denominations have had their fair share of scandals, but the Catholics seem to have borne most of the brunt. (btw I love Catholics). The same kind of culture of sielnce exists, and especially that mindset of "we're above the rules that apply to everyone else" is rampant among leadership. Just near where I live we have the St John’s brotherhood which has been around forever - it’s mostly a mental hospital now - and they’ve done a lot of good but a “whistelblower nun” has just come out with countless evidence and cases of pedophilia over something like 30 years. She issued a press release and what struck me were 2 things. Firstly she said the brotherhood had perpetrated a conspiracy of silence (not exactly her words but that was the gist of it), brothers who committed the acts were “warehoused” and victims were bought off. Secondly, there was a mindset that exists that they are somehow “above the law” that because they’re called to the “Greater Good” the normal mores don’t apply.

Sound familiar? A few times I have thought the worst aspects of the AOG are like the worst aspects of the kind of abuse that was inherent in the Catholic Church some years ago…I know other denominations have had their fair share of scandals, but the Catholics seem to have borne most of the brunt. (btw I love Catholics). The same kind of culture of sielnce exists, and especially that mindset of “we’re above the rules that apply to everyone else” is rampant among leadership.

]]> By: alan http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172051 alan Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:07:18 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172051 And just add to your contentment Lance, thats 219,000 Pentees running around Australia all done up in their in dresses. For according to the Melbourne Age(28/6) "a New York bus driver,Tahita Jenkins has been sacked for NOT wearing pants....she says that,as a Pentecostal she can only wear dresses"! And just add to your contentment Lance, thats 219,000 Pentees running around Australia all done up in their in dresses. For according to the Melbourne Age(28/6) “a New York bus driver,Tahita Jenkins has been sacked for NOT wearing pants….she says that,as a Pentecostal she can only wear dresses”!

]]> By: Lance http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172041 Lance Thu, 28 Jun 2007 02:59:06 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-172041 "Though Pentecostal churches grew 26 per cent in Australia and 48 per cent in NSW, they remain numerically small, with 219,000 adherents, about half the numbers of Buddhists." From http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pentecostal-revolution-in-the-suburbs/2007/06/27/1182623992464.html I feel so much better now. “Though Pentecostal churches grew 26 per cent in Australia and 48 per cent in NSW, they remain numerically small, with 219,000 adherents, about half the numbers of Buddhists.”

From http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pentecostal-revolution-in-the-suburbs/2007/06/27/1182623992464.html

I feel so much better now.

]]> By: daisy http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-167342 daisy Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:13:05 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-167342 Arh..now theres a vision. Arh..now theres a vision.

]]> By: Lance http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-167211 Lance Sat, 16 Jun 2007 02:20:22 +0000 http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/06/03/the-dark-side/#comment-167211 Yes. Yes.

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