Comments on: Necrophilia and other sins

By: akevin

akevin — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:48:17 +0000

The AoG thing (FH/BH) is also pretty much a thing here also. If you want to freak a baptist out just speak in tongues. if you want to freak an AoGer out, just give them a word of knowledge. I think you see little of these going on in AoG is becasue it makes controversy and that keeps desirable disciples (those with money and influence) away. Besides, occasionally a prophetic thing is given by a parking lot prophet and it’s so screwy that they shut it ALL down.

I always liked the “SHONDA RA HIGH_UH” followed by the interpretation “you are MY PEOPLE! PRAISE ME! PRAISE! PRAISE ME!” - in my early days of Pentecost -1973-80, I don’t think I was ever in an Aog that this wasn’t said about once a month. They loved it until the word was given without tongues - then they freaked! The baptist church I grew up in freaked at the word “tongues”.

but surely I ramble..

By: akevin

akevin — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:27:54 +0000

I have a couple who go to our church, that were in a demon chasing church - they have resorted to humor (sarcasm) as their help in healing. One of their favorite sayigs is, “we have brought the two of you to the accusation parlor, because ONE OF YOU HAS A DEMON!”

I think the overzealous part is the thing with whatever is the latest hottest thing in charismania or pentemania… or baptmania. Never saw any Methomania though. All these dogmatic disciples get a hold of someone elses revelation and them go and try to be the leader, or get so brown nosed as his follower that they get special notice at convention.

Some of the coldest people i ever met in ministry were followers of hagin. I knew a man who had liver/pancreatic cancer that went to a Hagin Meeting back in 1993. About 4 weeks before he died his pastor took him to Oklahoma - (about a 12 hour drive from here) to get healed, Richard could not stand in line becasue he was really sick. he asked the pastor if he could let him stay at the hotel and rest while the pastor held him a seat. The pastor told him he was “just going to have to learn to get TOUGH”. He died about 2 weeks after the grueling drive home with the pastor, his wife, 2 kids and the nanny (senior citizen widow from the church).

By: Singer

Singer — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 06:21:48 +0000

Thanks for that akevin.

I guess for those of us who were brought up in old-time charismatic/penty circles, the whole concept of an active holy spirit and ’spiritual realm’ was something taught and embraced from childhood as being part of our daily christian lives.

It can turn some people into over-zealous demon chasers…and worse, some can believe they are hearing from, or being guided by, the holy spirit…when it may be otherwise.

This may be part of the reasoning behind the absence of ’signs & wonders’ at HS services.

I believe there may have been a divergence of opinion in this regard between FH and BH. FH was a great believer in the manifestation of the holy spirit during church services….speaking in tongues, praying for the sick, casting out demons etc. However, I think BH is more image-conscious…perhaps not wanting to scare new people away with the more, shall we say, ‘outlandish’ aspects of pentecostalism.

By: akevin

akevin — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:11:26 +0000

daisy - yeah I guess… hmmmm… I don’t think I have ever been in a place where someone has been labeled or called a Jezebel spirit. From what i have seen of it, it has been a term used in dialogue to identify behaviors. It’s also offensive to label someone as a “controller or manipulator”.

To say that it is a term thrown around in Penty circles to contrlo people is a bit of a stretch ( in the US anyway) becasue many Pentecostal churches here would not even know what you were refering to. It’s not THAT common. Obviously, some have used it, but not everyone, i doubt even 1/2 the AoG church folks in the US woul understand what Jezebel means.

The Jezebel Spirit also includes more than control and manipulation. There is, according to some, a level of clarivoyance involved. It probably is unknown outside the charismatic church though. I read the 3 battle groulnds after being torn apart by a pastor’s wife some 15 years ago. At the time, we had no idea about the situation we were going through and what we had been facing, we finally left the church is small shreds.

After 3 months i ran across “the 3 battlegrounds” and it help a lot to understand where we had been, Jezebel Spirit or call it whatever - the book helped. The book also has a strong emphasis on Christ likeness being our goal - not Power. it seems like most books on the subject skip that part though and get right to the “fun” stuff.

I have heard from others that Frangipane believes about all women in ministry are influenced by the thing. Other authors say it is male and female.

By: Greg the explorer

Greg the explorer — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:46:05 +0000

Some people like to call everything that doens;t fit with their own standards or way of being as a spirit or demonic power - laziness and dangerous if you beoieve them and then start thinking you have to be excorcised!

By: warren terra

warren terra — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:44:36 +0000

Very true Daisy, these and other ’spiritual’ labels can be a substitute for thinking about the complexity of the issues. If you just give a spiritual label to something it implies that there is only a spiritual solution to the problem. The whole complexity of psychology and responsibility in relationships is reduced down to a label that stops thought. At its worst it is just another term for Witch.

I suppose that is a problem of most forms of Christianese. A small section of society assumes that it knows or can perceive something that the rest cannot - and talks about it in their own jargon. There is no proper discussion or argument of the merits of the concept, because acceptance of the concept is the price of belonging to the group.

By: daisy

daisy — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:34:27 +0000

I just don’t get it…..
Then why not simply say “that person behaves in a controlling and manipulative manner, as far as I am concerned?” or “I find that person difficult to deal with for such and such reasons”.
Silly me, that would call on people to be accountable for their opinions and more importantly acountable for some of the more slanderous things they utter…..
Why does behaviour need some kind of weird Penty ’spiritual’ label in the first place?
From what I have seen in Penty circles, ‘jezebel spirit’ is a label that is mostly thrown around to be hurtfulful, spiteful or shut people up or a cowards (albeit a very ’spiritual’ cowards) way of saying “I don’t like so and so”.
It is usually a label that is thrown around at women, hmmm could it be the very label ‘jezebel spirit’ is used to control people and manipulate others??….. kind of ironic really…….
As one christian ‘counsellor’ once said to me “it is usually the people who label people with having a ‘jezebel spirit’ who would be at the most risk of actually having one.
It’s all just too much for me!!

By: akevin

akevin — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:12:35 +0000

Isn’t a jez spirit just a term coined to identify someone who acts out of a controlling nature? It’s not an actual spirit but more of an attitude or way operation. The basis is fleshly desire to control and manipulate other people. i read 3BG’s about 15 years ago and i think Frangipane made that statement about being careful not to name it as a demonic spirit. His basis was the woman inamed jezebel in REVelation who taught gods people to eat meat sacrificed to idols and commit sexual sin… But time has passed and I have slept since then.

By: Singer

Singer — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 04:44:13 +0000

daisy,

I agree with you, actually. The ‘jezebel spirit’ concept is one that was suggested to me by someone (not a counsellor) at the time. I certainly relate to the article in terms of the effects some relationships can have on those in them, but what I didn’t make clear is I think the jury is very much out on the whole concept of a ‘jezebel spirit’…and yes, it is a very penty idea. Sorry for not being clearer there. I’m more inclined to think that many issues such as these have a psychological basis.

I think it’s interesting to see where all the teaching is coming from.

By: daisy

daisy — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:22:56 +0000

Sorry singer, I cannot agree with you on this one.
I think this Jezebel teaching stuff is Pentecostal mumbo jumbo, and smacks of Elijah house teaching (which I find a bit extreme and scary)…
Narcissism is a psychological diagnosis, although true narcissists are probably rare as are true psychopaths.
I find the article which outlines knowing who has a Jezebel spirit as being someone who leave you feeling drained etc is ridiculous.
Personality clashes are going to occur which is probably why as christians we are called to love, a love that is a choice not based on whether someone makes us feel good.
I grant you we can experience toxic relationships, however practical wisdom would encourage us to remove ourselves from toxic relationships whilst wishing the person we cannot be in a healthy relationship with well.