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	<title>Comments on: A sim card and a one way ticket</title>
	<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/</link>
	<description>musings from those on the journey</description>
	<pubDate>Thu,  4 Dec 2008 01:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: akevin</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-177244</link>
		<dc:creator>akevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 12:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-177244</guid>
		<description>I have no idea what this is about - I am just trying to be the last poster on the threads - leaving my mark for posterity's sake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea what this is about - I am just trying to be the last poster on the threads - leaving my mark for posterity&#8217;s sake.</p>
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		<title>By: warren terra</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-175325</link>
		<dc:creator>warren terra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-175325</guid>
		<description>Apparently we are faced with a new threat - terrorists who can commit their evil crimes without leaving any evidence.  

To combat this unprecedented danger, we cannot rely on old fashioned techniques.  We must use 21st century investigative methods.

1.  Suspects must remain under suspicion until they can conclusively prove their innocence.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

2.  Investigations and hearings must either be conducted in complete secrecy, or in the open media.  This is the only way to weed these dangerous terrorists out.

3.  Truth is too high a standard and increasingly irrelevant.  Seeking after Truthiness and gut-feeling is more likely to yield results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently we are faced with a new threat - terrorists who can commit their evil crimes without leaving any evidence.  </p>
<p>To combat this unprecedented danger, we cannot rely on old fashioned techniques.  We must use 21st century investigative methods.</p>
<p>1.  Suspects must remain under suspicion until they can conclusively prove their innocence.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.</p>
<p>2.  Investigations and hearings must either be conducted in complete secrecy, or in the open media.  This is the only way to weed these dangerous terrorists out.</p>
<p>3.  Truth is too high a standard and increasingly irrelevant.  Seeking after Truthiness and gut-feeling is more likely to yield results.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-174058</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 05:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-174058</guid>
		<description>Although not related to Haneef... here's another article today reflecting how expedient election politics leads to terrible decisions (eg navy staff being banned from sending emails to their families... one can only assume there was an attempt to ensure noone found out the "children overboard" fiasco was outright deception.) 

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pms-plan-threatened-security/2007/07/21/1184560109123.html

"THE Australian Navy's war-fighting ability has been blunted by the Federal Government's efforts to keep asylum seekers out — a policy so unpopular that some sailors have feigned illness or quit rather than enforce it…. One crew complained, during the politically charged operations in September and October 2001, that they were banned from sending personal emails to their families — a level of censorship that did not apply even in wartime."

How did we ever let our country get like this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although not related to Haneef&#8230; here&#8217;s another article today reflecting how expedient election politics leads to terrible decisions (eg navy staff being banned from sending emails to their families&#8230; one can only assume there was an attempt to ensure noone found out the &#8220;children overboard&#8221; fiasco was outright deception.) </p>
<p><a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pms-plan-threatened-security/2007/07/21/1184560109123.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pms-plan-threatened-security/2007/07/21/1184560109123.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;THE Australian Navy&#8217;s war-fighting ability has been blunted by the Federal Government&#8217;s efforts to keep asylum seekers out — a policy so unpopular that some sailors have feigned illness or quit rather than enforce it…. One crew complained, during the politically charged operations in September and October 2001, that they were banned from sending personal emails to their families — a level of censorship that did not apply even in wartime.&#8221;</p>
<p>How did we ever let our country get like this?</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-174057</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 05:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-174057</guid>
		<description>“with the federal police case surrounding Haneef collapsing after revelations that the SIM card he left in Britain was not used in the failed suicide bomb attack in Glasgow, GOVERNMENT STRATEGISTS believe there is little point holding him in Australia.”

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/07/21/1184560109126.html

Should “government stategists” have anything to do with our justice system? It appears you can now in effect be deported for being a political embarassment in an election year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“with the federal police case surrounding Haneef collapsing after revelations that the SIM card he left in Britain was not used in the failed suicide bomb attack in Glasgow, GOVERNMENT STRATEGISTS believe there is little point holding him in Australia.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/07/21/1184560109126.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/07/21/1184560109126.html</a></p>
<p>Should “government stategists” have anything to do with our justice system? It appears you can now in effect be deported for being a political embarassment in an election year.</p>
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		<title>By: warren terra</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173881</link>
		<dc:creator>warren terra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173881</guid>
		<description>From a humble nation of Convicts to a proud nation of Jailers.

Leunig in todays Age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a humble nation of Convicts to a proud nation of Jailers.</p>
<p>Leunig in todays Age.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173812</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173812</guid>
		<description>Yes the line between terrorist and freedom fighter is a very thin one.

I actually read all 142 pages of the interview....If that is all they have on him we should all be very very scared.  He is guilty of generosity!

My eldest son and I were discussing the Howard Government and Bush's America a few weeks ago and came to the same conclusion as Paul Keating did later....The country fought against facsim and totalitarian regimes in WWII, our Govenment seems so Xenaphobic and extremly right wing that perhaps the Nazi's did win after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes the line between terrorist and freedom fighter is a very thin one.</p>
<p>I actually read all 142 pages of the interview&#8230;.If that is all they have on him we should all be very very scared.  He is guilty of generosity!</p>
<p>My eldest son and I were discussing the Howard Government and Bush&#8217;s America a few weeks ago and came to the same conclusion as Paul Keating did later&#8230;.The country fought against facsim and totalitarian regimes in WWII, our Govenment seems so Xenaphobic and extremly right wing that perhaps the Nazi&#8217;s did win after all.</p>
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		<title>By: warren terra</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173804</link>
		<dc:creator>warren terra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 06:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173804</guid>
		<description>Yes, of course.  Glad you cleared that up Janet.  The point was people are willing to take up arms or to die for a cause on both sides, and it is a matter of point of view whether they are noble, or a freedom fighter or a terrorist. 

In the film "The Patriot" Mel Gibson would have been a terrorist to the British and a Patriot to the Americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, of course.  Glad you cleared that up Janet.  The point was people are willing to take up arms or to die for a cause on both sides, and it is a matter of point of view whether they are noble, or a freedom fighter or a terrorist. </p>
<p>In the film &#8220;The Patriot&#8221; Mel Gibson would have been a terrorist to the British and a Patriot to the Americans.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173753</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173753</guid>
		<description>"Principles I am prepared to die for".... I mean be blown up as a victim of a terrorist attack because a suspected terrorist walked free.... not take up arms myself... lest that be misinterpreted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Principles I am prepared to die for&#8221;&#8230;. I mean be blown up as a victim of a terrorist attack because a suspected terrorist walked free&#8230;. not take up arms myself&#8230; lest that be misinterpreted.</p>
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		<title>By: warren terra</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173749</link>
		<dc:creator>warren terra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173749</guid>
		<description>Call me stupid and naive but I dont think it has been established that we need  special laws for a "scary thing that we dont really understand".   I think value-of-life and self-preservation are common values in humanity, within reason.  Janet has said that there are principles that she would be prepared to die for.  I dont think we are really all that much different to the so-called terrorists.

The record is not good on special laws for things we dont understand - Witches, Jews, Communists etc. etc.  

But then I like lattes, they seem so much more practical than cappuccinos with their frothy poorly defined layer on the top.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Call me stupid and naive but I dont think it has been established that we need  special laws for a &#8220;scary thing that we dont really understand&#8221;.   I think value-of-life and self-preservation are common values in humanity, within reason.  Janet has said that there are principles that she would be prepared to die for.  I dont think we are really all that much different to the so-called terrorists.</p>
<p>The record is not good on special laws for things we dont understand - Witches, Jews, Communists etc. etc.  </p>
<p>But then I like lattes, they seem so much more practical than cappuccinos with their frothy poorly defined layer on the top.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet</title>
		<link>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173746</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.signposts.org.au/2007/07/18/a-sim-card-and-a-one-way-ticket/#comment-173746</guid>
		<description>Hi Bec... I'm wondering what others (especially those legally trained minds out there) think on the privacy issue... I just have that gut feeling that if we make compromises there it will be easier to obtain enough evidence for conviction on serious charges... then there'll be less political pressure to tamper with other elements of the legal system, such as detention or deportation based on on "suspicion" or "association".

I think I'm willing to make that compromise... but privacy is reasonably low on my list of priorities... and I know other for whom privacy is terribly important.

Case in point... someone at my husband's work was burgled... and claimed she almostfelt like she'd been raped because it was such a violation of privacy. We were burgled at around the same time... and my concern was not that a stranger had been in the house (big deal) but that getting everything fixed and replaced and filling out insurance forms was such a nuisance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bec&#8230; I&#8217;m wondering what others (especially those legally trained minds out there) think on the privacy issue&#8230; I just have that gut feeling that if we make compromises there it will be easier to obtain enough evidence for conviction on serious charges&#8230; then there&#8217;ll be less political pressure to tamper with other elements of the legal system, such as detention or deportation based on on &#8220;suspicion&#8221; or &#8220;association&#8221;.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;m willing to make that compromise&#8230; but privacy is reasonably low on my list of priorities&#8230; and I know other for whom privacy is terribly important.</p>
<p>Case in point&#8230; someone at my husband&#8217;s work was burgled&#8230; and claimed she almostfelt like she&#8217;d been raped because it was such a violation of privacy. We were burgled at around the same time&#8230; and my concern was not that a stranger had been in the house (big deal) but that getting everything fixed and replaced and filling out insurance forms was such a nuisance.</p>
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